****** shutdown

[DVC Dude]

Here is the message on the site

Sorry, Disney has requested that I shut down ******.com. I hope this isn't the end, but if it is, I want you to know I love you all.

****** ... gmail

 

[leelee9878]

Such a shame that they shut it down, hoping they buy it from the developer. Thanks to the developer for creating.

 

[Minniesgal]

I can't believe this happened just as I learned about it. I was wondering why I wasn't able to find the App. I'm sure that Disney had it removed because they were either in the works of creating it or negotiated to purchase the app because of so many complaints regarding how tedious and time consuming it is to search one at a time. I am also thinking that it would help to lighten the load on the web site to accommodate all the new member traffic that is being generated.

I seriously doubt it!

I think ?Disney shut it down because it gives non owners access to data Disney doesn't want them to have. They are unlikely to be happy about potential purchasers being able to look at inventory and see it is difficult to book at certain times.

 

[SkyMedik]

This sucks!! I had just fallen in love with it...... Sorry all of his hard work has come to this....

 

[Sammie]

It violated the Terms of Agreement/Use of the DVC website, did anyone really think they would ignore that.

 

[bookwormde]

It violated the Terms of Agreement/Use of the DVC website, did anyone really think they would ignore that.

Of course no one wants to spend the $ to go up against Disney, but the violation is certainly not clear.

If the "access" to the data is done by "hacking" then yes, but if DVC does not block automated inquiries from members in general then this is not a violation.

Data, made generally available to a the public (which DVC members would be held to be) is commonly not held to be "content" and contractually "gaging" the sharing of this type of information if rarely held as valid. It is considered to be in the public domain, and therefor may be analyzed formatted and published for non commercial purposed at will.

Any good contract law, or intellectual property attorneys want to weigh in?

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Of course no one wants to spend the $ to go up against Disney, but the violation is certainly not clear.

If the "access" to the data is done by "hacking" then yes, but if DVC does not block automated inquiries from members in general then this is not a violation.

Data, made generally available to a the public (which DVC members would be held to be) is commonly not held to be "content" and contractually "gaging" the sharing of this type of information if rarely held as valid. It is considered to be in the public domain, and therefor may be analyzed formatted and published for non commercial purposed at will.

Any good contract law, or intellectual property attorneys want to weigh in?

With all due respect, of course the violation is not clear to you, unless you were the developer and participated in the dialog with Disney regarding the request to take it down.

How can we presume to know the terms when we clearly don't?

Look. Everyone that used the site was clearly using that person's UserID and password, albeit indirectly. That in and of itself is a violation of our owners' terms of service. Disney didn't need anything else.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

There's a boatload of information contained in two simple facts, in my opinion.

1) The site was taken down.

2) The developer has not made public comment on it (so far as I know).

It's interesting how we choose to ignore the simple stuff sometimes.

Several of us told you guys this was going to happen in the first page or two when the site was announced here. It was interesting to watch how people simply couldn't, or didn't want to, see this coming.

 

[AndyFL]

My guess is that Disney didn't like non members looking at room inventory and they didn't like a robot program looking up availability for 2 hours at a time every 6 hours.

Disney advertises all of the wonderful vacations that you can take and a program like this allows potential buyers to find out that booking a room could be a challenge.

Bill

I think you nailed it Bill. We are not DVC owners but used this app so when someone was selling points we wouldn't waste a lot of back and forth checking available dates. When looking at just how booked up most resorts were I recently commented to my Wife that I bet there were a lot of new DVC buyers who quickly got dismayed at how hard it was to plan a vacation.

Personally, I liked it mostly because it gave me an idea of how crowded Disney might be.....if a lot of room options were available for certain dates then odds were that the parks would be less crowded.

 

[tjkraz]

Two general comments:

1) DVC could easily have included this sort of functionality in their own product. Every aspect of DVCMember.com booking app we see today was intentionally designed...including its inherent limitations.

You could spend all day theorizing about why DVC didn't include this feature or that feature. I'm sure the reasons are many....but lack of expertise is not one of the reasons.

2) The room availability alerts are only useful when there are a small number of users receiving the alerts. This "******" worked well because it had an audience of dozens or hundreds among the tens-of-thousands of DVC members. Those who signed up for the alerts were small in number, and thus had a great chance of picking-up a room when the alert arrived.

It's not difficult to extrapolate what would happen if this functionality were added to DVCMember.com. Suddenly hundreds of people are getting email notices with every cancellation.

When a December BWV Standard View Studio cancellation prompts one email, the recipient of that message has a really good shot of securing the reservation. When an email goes out to 250 people....well, you're basically left with the "needle in a haystack" situation we have today.

There just isn't any way to satisfy the masses when demand far outweighs availability.

I'd have been far more surprised if DVC didn't act on this. It gave booking advantages to the small number of owners who were in-the-know. It sounds corny but shutting down the app serves the greater good.

 

[DeDobber]

Hi, I really appreciate the kind words. I just want to let you all know that I was not contacted by their Legal department. I have taken it down because I was asked nicely to do so. I hope to have a couple more conversations with them about what may be OK to do.

The fact is that if I chose to dig in my heels, they could start using any number of methods to block me using technical means, some of which may impact the convenience of using dvcmember.com for other owners. I would feel really bad if that were to happen.

 

[gdrj]

The site was helpful for me in being able to get 2 nights at GFV.

There is definitely a need for the site. I had two waitlists for GFV
-one was for two days standard view
-one was for three days lake view

Since you are only allowed 2 active waitlists, it was a hit or miss.

What opened up was 2 days lake view, which didn't hit either one.

It was great to be able to look at a week for a studio and see what was available at all locations, and a time saver.

I can fully understand not wanting non-members access (there are a ton of reasons, besides not wanting prospective buyers to see difficulty in scheduling).

Hopefully this leads to dialogue that will expand the website search capabilities.

Thanks DeDobber

 

[Sammie]

Of course no one wants to spend the $ to go up against Disney, but the violation is certainly not clear.

If the "access" to the data is done by "hacking" then yes, but if DVC does not block automated inquiries from members in general then this is not a violation.

Data, made generally available to a the public (which DVC members would be held to be) is commonly not held to be "content" and contractually "gaging" the sharing of this type of information if rarely held as valid. It is considered to be in the public domain, and therefor may be analyzed formatted and published for non commercial purposed at will.

Any good contract law, or intellectual property attorneys want to weigh in?

Per the DVC site Usage Terms:

Any business use, "re-mailing" or high-volume or automated use of WDIG Sites is prohibited.



Would you not consider that automated use?

And yes I thought the site was very useful, but I still consider it a violation of the Terms of Use.

 

[cseca]

We'll pooh... I like the site A LOT!

 

[disneynutz]

Hi, I really appreciate the kind words. I just want to let you all know that I was not contacted by their Legal department. I have taken it down because I was asked nicely to do so. I hope to have a couple more conversations with them about what may be OK to do.

The fact is that if I chose to dig in my heels, they could start using any number of methods to block me using technical means, some of which may impact the convenience of using dvcmember.com for other owners. I would feel really bad if that were to happen.

Legal may not have contacted you but they instructed the person that did contact you on what to say and how to say it. Disney won't even let CM's email the public unless the content is approved.

We had a conversation with one of the well known Disney business partner art painters at DTD. He can't paint any scene unless it is specifically approved by Disney's legal people and the approval can take a couple of years.

Bill

 

[GGOOFY1]

Another fan of the App!! Sorry to see it go.

 

[bookwormde]

Per the DVC site Usage Terms:

Any business use, "re-mailing" or high-volume or automated use of WDIG Sites is prohibited.



Would you not consider that automated use?

And yes I thought the site was very useful, but I still consider it a violation of the Terms of Use.

Key word in this is "business" as I indicated when the site appears to becoming commercial then Disney has some stronger standing, although even that is not solid. Just because Disney expresses a right does not mean it is valid or will be upheld, even when you "check the box"

 

[bookwormde]

With all due respect, of course the violation is not clear to you, unless you were the developer and participated in the dialog with Disney regarding the request to take it down.

How can we presume to know the terms when we clearly don't?

Look. Everyone that used the site was clearly using that person's UserID and password, albeit indirectly. That in and of itself is a violation of our owners' terms of service. Disney didn't need anything else.

Yes you are correct we do not know the reasons, even after the APP owners post.

My point was that saying that it obviously violates the terms of service, is no more valid that me saying that it does not, since only a court could decide this definitively and we do not no the basis.

By you password logic, everyone who has ever shared availability information by any means with anyone has violated the terms of service.

 

[bookwormde]

Hi, I really appreciate the kind words. I just want to let you all know that I was not contacted by their Legal department. I have taken it down because I was asked nicely to do so. I hope to have a couple more conversations with them about what may be OK to do.

The fact is that if I chose to dig in my heels, they could start using any number of methods to block me using technical means, some of which may impact the convenience of using dvcmember.com for other owners. I would feel really bad if that were to happen.

Again thanks so such for all the work & such a great APP.

Hopefully DVC will use some common sense. I can see them not wanting the 11 month data out since that does create some preference not allowed by the web site. I also could see only running the query once a day in the middle of the night so it had no chance of effecting operational bandwidth.

As with many things when members put out information DVC has full deniability, so they do not own any negative. A win/win including that DVC's work has been done by others for free.

Thanks for your sensitivity to avoiding DVC adding a processing verification password or other device which would inconvenience the membership.

I have worked with DVC QA/member satisfaction team on some contentious issues, and have found that at this level they are very nice people to work with, even when we ended up not being able to come to an consensus (which has been the minority of the issues)

Hope if works out, it is an amazing benefits for members.

 

[cmrdgrs]

<snip...>It gave booking advantages to the small number of owners who were in-the-know. It sounds corny but shutting down the app serves the greater good.<...snip>

I hadn't looked at it in the light you just pointed out - I would have to agree with your argument. However, selfishly, I was able to fill dates I was looking to fill due to changes in availability and I'm quite sure that I might not have picked up those nights without the ******.

It would be nice if DVC would put something like this together. Just being able to look at availability across resorts was very, very helpful.