Shocked with crowds last week.

[Praying Colonel]

I always love the Econ 101 portion of crowd level discussions.

Everybody knows Disney is not a charity. What OP probably meant is she thought she'd found a "market inefficiency" of sorts that permitted her to have a less crowded trip, and that turned out to be incorrect. And she's frustrated by that. Which is fine.

 

[emilyrachael]

I agree. A lot of our enjoyment of Disney is just strolling around the parks- not really riding as much as enjoying being there and strolling. But when you can’t even walk- I’m out. Back to the resort I go. I just can’t handle the insane heat and humidity of September anymore, so if I can’t find a good time to go, I’m sad to say that may be the breaking point for me. We may need a break and try and find another vacation spot for a while. That makes me sad.

This is exactly how I feel. And, yes, I realize it's not the best for Disney's bottom line, but I don't want a vacation where I'm rushing from line to line through the crowds or spending the entire time on my phone trying to get a fp so I can ride without a 40+ minute wait.

 

[FigmentBob]

We just got back yesterday, 2/13/18, and were shocked at the large crowd sizes as well. As mentioned earlier a LOT of cheerleader/dance groups in every park everywhere. Travelers we talked to said they come the same week every year and had never experienced such large crowds before.

If everybody would just keep to the right when walking (except when passing) it wouldn't be so exhausting having to navigate through the crowds.

 

[ilovetotravel1977]

We just got back as well.

Was at Pop Feb 1-8, then to Cabana Bay Feb 8-12.

Girl tour groups drove me crazy by the end of the week.

Feb 6 we were at AK and there were TONS of people there. Or maybe it just felt like that due to the limited pathways to get from each area? Plus it was roasting hot. Every other park day we found quite manageable.

Crowds were registering between levels 3-5 on Touring Plans app.

 

[lovin'fl]

You sound surprised by that. Disney is a "for profit" public company. That is what such companies are supposed to do. And anyone who has a 401k or current or future pension funds should be very glad about that.

Keeping their hotels and parks full? That is good business. And provides more jobs to folks, by the way.

I agree. Not surprised at all. Disney knows exactly what it's doing and how to make that profit for it's share holders. I don't have a problem with it. I was just explaining 'how' Disney shoves in the guests. Other poster seemed to think it is just some fluke that everyone was wanting to go for the same reason as OP....I think it's more than that.

 

[Disneylovingmomof2]

We got back the 11th. I saw a few huge groups of South Americans but I saw way more cheerleaders. I second what pp said about there being a lot more international visitors in general - we were in line to get into HS one day and I started talking to one lady, she said they were from Argentina. I tried asking her if they were there because it was school break (I think Argentina starts school again in Feb?) but her English wasn’t good and my Spanish isn’t good enough to have a conversation
The parks definitely felt crowded. For me personally, HS feels the worst when it’s crowded. We got a lot done but I really felt like it was kinda crazy feeling there with all the people.

 

[tlmadden73]

Based on all the discounts they pushed last summer, it feels that "crowd calendars" have finally caught up to WDW and "low" seasons don't really seem to exist anymore and summer may not be as crowded as it used to be.

Everyone has been trained for the last two decades to pull kids out of school and NOT go in the summer or during school breaks and go in January, February, September, October and November. Now . .those "low times" from a decade or more ago seem just as crowded as the summers that people are trying to avoid.

I remember ONLY going to WDW as a kid during the summer or spring breaks.

But I wonder if February "feeling" crowded is due to low staffing. That would affect wait times. But the complaint about "not seeing pavement" .. well that just sounds crowded. I've been to WDW 4 different times since 2010 - late Jan. late March. late August. and early October.

I rate the crowd levels this way from most crowded to least:
1 - Early Oct. 2014
2 - Late March 2017
3 - Late August 2015
4 - Late January 2010

These crowded parks help sell things like Early Morning Magic more and more. I am still surprised they don't have one for AK and Epcot yet . .and wonder how soon it will be before they have one for Toy Story Land or SWGE.

I am going in mid-November this year. I know my parents (who haven't been since 2010) will probably be shocked at the crowds I expect the week of Veteran's Day.

 

[GillianP1301]

What is most challenging about these anecdotal experiences re: crowds is they are so subjective. You can have 2 people in the same park on the same day/time and one will be disappointed and think it is crazy crowded and the other can think it's a perfect moderate to low crowd day. Who's right and who's wrong? Of course it's not black and white, so neither really.

What we do know is attendance overall continues to increase year over year, so inevitably that will lead to a sense of more people around you in the parks on any given day. There is much speculation that lower crowd times have been met with lower operational budgets (i.e. less ride vehicles and/or CMs) which can also lead to a feeling of more people when it fact there aren't.

What does all of that mean? I'm not sure, but I do think it requires a re-set of expectations for many people or they are going to be increasingly disappointed. Or, if you are unwilling to change your expectations and you continue to be disappointed, then it's probably time to find a new vacation destination.

On a more tactical level, whenever I end up in a situation where crowds are not what I expect, I change it up. I take a break, go to a different ride or even hop to a different park. Sometimes just a minor adjustment can get you out of a not so good situation and back to a higher enjoyment level.

 

[disneyvoice]

On a more tactical level, whenever I end up in a situation where crowds are not what I expect, I change it up. I take a break, go to a different ride or even hop to a different park. Sometimes just a minor adjustment can get you out of a not so good situation and back to a higher enjoyment level.

Yep!! We arrived for our trip in January the afternoon of the marathon. It really only affected our drive to the resort and then our attempt to drive to MK. The routes were literally at a stand still. We were prepared for this though so it wasn't a big deal - we just decided to stay at the resort and get lunch. What we weren't prepared for was the MASSIVE crowd heading to MK for the FCU Parade that same afternoon. It was literally INSANE!!! INSANE!! Our 16 year old didn't care but it reminded us of WDW at Christmas when Main Street is so packed you literally stop moving and have no where to go. We made it through Main Street did the Haunted Mansion and then decided that the crowds throughout the park were just too much for us. Did we let that ruin our day? Nope. Our son stayed in MK but my husband and I made our back up Main Street, left MK, walked to the Contemporary, and sat and had a few drinks at the Wave bar. It was a lovely afternoon!! We spent a few hours chatting with some people who had done the marathon. Then our son met us in the lobby and we had traditional arrival night dinner at Chef Mickey's.

 

[Louie7080]

You sound surprised by that. Disney is a "for profit" public company. That is what such companies are supposed to do. And anyone who has a 401k or current or future pension funds should be very glad about that.

Keeping their hotels and parks full? That is good business. And provides more jobs to folks, by the way.

There is nothing wrong with wanting companies, especially those that are weaved so tightly into our culture, to think more than just about the bottom line. This can be done while also employing more people.

 

[Dug720]

There is nothing wrong with wanting companies, especially those that are weaved so tightly into our culture, to think more than just about the bottom line. This can be done while also employing more people.

As long as you accept that rates will have to increase to employ those people. That costs money.

 

[mom2rtk]

As long as you accept that rates will have to increase to employ those people. That costs money.

Why? If the parks are so crowded, aren't they making more on admission fees?

 

[Dug720]

Why? If the parks are so crowded, aren't they making more on admission fees?

They seem more crowded because the parks are less staffed at what have been "off times" making waits longer, etc. To keep the staffing up to holiday levels year-round would necessitate another price increase. And people are already whining about the latest one. (Though I suspect that much like how so many whined about Pandora coming in but are now OMGOMGOMGOMG about it (or at least FOP), they'll still keep coming.)

 

[mom2rtk]

They seem more crowded because the parks are less staffed at what have been "off times" making waits longer, etc. To keep the staffing up to holiday levels year-round would necessitate another price increase. And people are already whining about the latest one. (Though I suspect that much like how so many whined about Pandora coming in but are now OMGOMGOMGOMG about it (or at least FOP), they'll still keep coming.)

Last I heard they were somewhere around a 24% margin in the parks. Staffing seems to me to be as little as they can get away with as opposed to a certain level tied to how many people are in the parks.

And people aren't asking for the same staffing as peak times. Just a more reasonable level than they've experienced lately.

 

[Donalyn]

Back to econ 101 - the rule of decreasing returns. I think that WDW is suffering this in my opinion. While I definitely understand that it is the exec's jobs to make the most money they can, they do so at a cost to their customers. Someday, it may come back to bite them.

For instance, as the parks get more crowded (and the CMs are not appropriately staffed to address those crowds), a number of people will get turned off and use their vacation time and dollars in different ways. Now, the Disney parks marketing machine may be able to replace those people with others, but it may not long term.

I feel that I am moving in this direction (of moving on to other destinations). I get very limited vacation time (and work a lot while I'm on vacation). I hate wall to wall crowds (I get massive anxiety around them) and my DH hates the heat. And we are tied to a school schedule with high schoolers who can't miss school any more for the next 7 years. And on principal, I hate paying more year after year for a substantially decreased park experience.

The fix of taking a break at the resort doesn't really "work" for me because when I actually get to WDW, I want to be experiencing the parks, not a resort pool lounge chair. That isn't what I'm paying large amounts of money for. And we did this during our trip to DL in Nov 2016, only to return to DL to wall to wall, couldn't move an inch, level of people each night. So the strategy was a big fail.

That said, I am looking forward to our trip in April. I booked it knowing it would be crazy busy due to Easter, but also thinking that it will be our last trip for a number of years. I'm trying to make the best of it.

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

This runs the danger of moving into the "it's too crowded nobody goes there anymore" territory.

 

[PrincessWithABlaster]

If everybody would just keep to the right when walking (except when passing) it wouldn't be so exhausting having to navigate through the crowds.

And pull over onto the shoulder before stopping or reversing direction.

 

[WDWFan0813]

Back to econ 101 - the rule of decreasing returns. I think that WDW is suffering this in my opinion. While I definitely understand that it is the exec's jobs to make the most money they can, they do so at a cost to their customers. Someday, it may come back to bite them.

For instance, as the parks get more crowded (and the CMs are not appropriately staffed to address those crowds), a number of people will get turned off and use their vacation time and dollars in different ways. Now, the Disney parks marketing machine may be able to replace those people with others, but it may not long term.

I feel that I am moving in this direction (of moving on to other destinations). I get very limited vacation time (and work a lot while I'm on vacation). I hate wall to wall crowds (I get massive anxiety around them) and my DH hates the heat. And we are tied to a school schedule with high schoolers who can't miss school any more for the next 7 years. And on principal, I hate paying more year after year for a substantially decreased park experience.

The fix of taking a break at the resort doesn't really "work" for me because when I actually get to WDW, I want to be experiencing the parks, not a resort pool lounge chair. That isn't what I'm paying large amounts of money for. And we did this during our trip to DL in Nov 2016, only to return to DL to wall to wall, couldn't move an inch, level of people each night. So the strategy was a big fail.

That said, I am looking forward to our trip in April. I booked it knowing it would be crazy busy due to Easter, but also thinking that it will be our last trip for a number of years. I'm trying to make the best of it.

Extremely well said! We enjoy some down time while we are there, but too much and I would begin to wonder why we didn't just go to the beach.

 

[PrincessWithABlaster]

What does all of that mean? I'm not sure, but I do think it requires a re-set of expectations for many people or they are going to be increasingly disappointed. Or, if you are unwilling to change your expectations and you continue to be disappointed, then it's probably time to find a new vacation destination.

I think Disney has bought themselves a reprieve from having to worry about people going elsewhere for a couple of years by opening new lands. They know people are going to come for them so in the meantime they can let the guest experience suffer a bit knowing that people will come ‘one more time’ to see TSL or SW. I think that’s a short term outlook unless they want to keep building and/or refreshing at their current rate, but I’m not a CEO getting paid the big bucks to make those decisions.

 

[mamaofsix]

Economies in many non-U.S. countries are booming. As a Canadian, I know that most of our friends and family plan their trips around how well our dollar is doing compared to the U.S. dollar. And it has been on the uptick lately. Similarly with South America. This is likely why you see such an increase in foreign crowds.

Time will tell if Disney's approach of understaffing during "low times" will come back to bite them in the end. Having less staff and less ride vehicles operating during slow times ensures that wait times are about the same all year long. But how many people will refuse to come back if they keep seeing rides only running on limited tracks, etc.? When I go to the grocery store during a 'slow time' of day and there are only 3 tills open out of 10, it is quite frustrating when you are waiting in a line that's 10 carts deep. As a result, I avoid that grocery store in the future because of their lack of service. Similar with Disney. To serve their bottom line, they run on a skeleton staff. But their bottom line might just suffer for it in the end when loyal fans don't come back.