Severing Custody for Financial Aid

[tvguy]

Not sure why they need to surrender custody of their children while they are in high school. Once their child is 18, that child is an adult and there is no legal obligation for them to support that child. There have been many threads on these boards where I got FLAMED big time because I believe a parent has an obligation to provide as much financial support at they can for their children's college education. Some feel once a child is 18, their obligation to support them has ended.

And this is nothing new. I graduated from college 40 years ago and one of my fraternity brothers was financially independent from his millionaire parents. He got a full free ride based strictly on his income. But, to be transparent, he moved out of his parents home when he turned 18, and never moved back.

 

[luvsJack]

Not sure why they need to surrender custody of their children while they are in high school. Once their child is 18, that child is an adult and there is no legal obligation for them to support that child. There have been many threads on these boards where I got FLAMED big time because I believe a parent has an obligation to provide as much financial support at they can for their children's college education. Some feel once a child is 18, their obligation to support them has ended.

And this is nothing new. I graduated from college 40 years ago and one of my fraternity brothers was financially independent from his millionaire parents. He got a full free ride based strictly on his income. But, to be transparent, he moved out of his parents home when he turned 18, and never moved back.

Because now a student is considered “dependent” until they are 24, married or have a child that they pay 51% of their support.

40 years ago it was very easy to show that you are independent. Not so much anymore.

The Dis May think a kid should be independent at 18, the federal government, not so much.

 

[disykat]

I've known too many people that couldn't prove their parents weren't supporting them to think it's as easy as people seem to think it is to separate yourself from your parent's assets. - And those were people who got nothing from their parents - no food, no housing, no insurance, nothing. That WAS 40 years ago when I was going to college. It wasn't easy then.

Even in this thread, there have been people saying their parents didn't support them during college but they lived with them. ??? Support is more than paying tuition. If you are living with your parents, using their health insurance, eating their food, etc. they are supporting you.

I have a relative that wants to emancipate her dd so she doesn't have to pay for college. She doesn't seem to understand what emancipation means. She says she's researched it and all she has to do is prove how competent her dd is. She thinks she can continue to support her dd, but just say she doesn't want to pay for college because her dd is competent. Good luck with that.

 

[luvsJack]

I've known too many people that couldn't prove their parents weren't supporting them to think it's as easy as people seem to think it is to separate yourself from your parent's assets. - And those were people who got nothing from their parents - no food, no housing, no insurance, nothing. That WAS 40 years ago when I was going to college. It wasn't easy then.

Even in this thread, there have been people saying their parents didn't support them during college but they lived with them. ??? Support is more than paying tuition. If you are living with your parents, using their health insurance, eating their food, etc. they are supporting you.

I have a relative that wants to emancipate her dd so she doesn't have to pay for college. She doesn't seem to understand what emancipation means. She says she's researched it and all she has to do is prove how competent her dd is. She thinks she can continue to support her dd, but just say she doesn't want to pay for college because her dd is competent. Good luck with that.

The thing is now, it doesn’t matter if the parents do not support them. Like at all. Unless they are homeless, in legal guardianship, an orphan or a ward of the court; they are a dependent student.

I have one young lady who hasn’t spoken to her mother in a couple of years. She lives down the road from the mom with her boyfriend. She is still a dependent student. She doesn’t fit into any of those situations.

A boy who is 19, came home and everything he owned had been thrown out the window. He had no idea why. It took MONTHS to finally get him changed to independent. He had to go stay at a shelter instead of with a family member so that he would have the paperwork to show he was at risk for being homeless.

Another that has a child. She lives with her grandmother. She lived with her mom until she had the baby and mom threw her out. But because she doesn’t pay rent, she doesn’t have more than a very part time job and mainly only pays for diapers and formula, she is considered dependent and is required to show her mom’s income.

And too many to count that cannot get their parent’s income information. Parents refuse to help them and refuse to let them use their income to apply for aid. So even though they would most likely qualify, they can’t become Mom won’t give them the information they need

 

[disykat]

That's exactly what I was saying. That was the case 40 years ago when I went to college, it's still the same today. I'm not sure why people think it's something that's easy to do.

 

[3threebabies]

The last I checked (granted, which was about 10 years ago), our income was too high. We were told that we would have to give up custody and have him become a ward of the state (to separate his income from ours) which we aren't willing to do. Thankfully, we have the means to care for him so we will.

Are you in the US? I believe pp meant to have your son file for SSDI (Social Security Disability Insurance). By signing him up as a minor, he should qualify for monthly payments as well as other social services including Medicare upon adulthood. Some services do require a wait period, but I do not think they require guardianship for the services themselves.

 

[aprilgail]

If all it took was to say they are not supporting their children, everyone would do it!

I worked a job that paid a decent wage- I am a single parent and when I was talking about college touring one of my married co-workers says to me-" make sure you put down on paper that your kid is no longer living with you, just have a relative say they are living with them and you are no longer supporting them and they will get full financial aid and you won't have to pay a penny, that is what I did with both my kids-I can walk you through the whole process"- ummmm, no thanks! Turns out that I did NOT lie, filed all the paperwork legit and we ended up with 100% financial aid anyway due to the fact I retired and someone my pension income is counted differently with the college.

 

[mnrose]

I don't get people's personal ethics and morals. They have money. They CAN pay. They choose not to. Instead, they are going to mooch off other people (or the government in the case if public schools). Ugh. Just so ugh. It's the same whether it's financial aid or Medicaid when you are a senior citizen. Lots of "hiding" of assets in order to qualify for Medicaid. And, no one blinks about any of it. My own internal code says this is wrong. I take care of myself and my children. I don't foist off my responsibilities to others. It would be different if I had no assets and no ability to pay, but if I do, I should. Period. End of discussion.

Back in the day, I was truly an emancipated student. I moved out of my family home two days before I turned 18, and NEVER moved back. My parents paid NOTHING towards any of my college (not that they could have afforded to anyway). I got my own health insurance (cheap as chips back in the day....you could buy an ANNUAL policy for less than $80). Rented my own place to live. Etc. I had no adult other than myself to fall back on if it got hard. Too bad. So sad. Suck it up buttercup. It was great for me in the end.

I am very blessed that I CAN afford to help my kids.

 

[cinnaminny]

I am divorced and have sole custody of my daughter who will be a junior this fall. I have been with my fiance over 4 years but have no plans of marriage until she is done with college, it is total BS that HIS income would also be a factor in deciding financial aid to MY daughter...meanwhile my ex, her father gets to wash his hands of the whole deal. We are in a state where child support ends when they graduate high school. I wouldn't go as far as to give up custody, but I will postpone marriage even though we live together, he has his own son to support, his income should not factor into my daughter's situation at all.

I feel like this is different and I think you are smart to wait and put off marriage. I am in a blended family and his money did affect their money opportunities. You're smart to wait

 

[mrodgers]

I don't even understand all this financial aid stuff. My ex wife filled out the paperwork. $12/hour job and our daughter didn't qualify. How do people with decent jobs get financial aid for their children?

 

[seashoreCM]

With the new tax law the subject of being emancipated is more meaningful because a child claimed as a dependent cannot claim his own 12,000. standard deduction. I suppose that a child who did not get support from a parent could make a case for being emancipated.

This is different from when the parent starts the process of emancipating a child.

Are there different colleges with different financial aid qualifications that a self-emancipated child could apply to?

 

[Searc]

I don't even understand all this financial aid stuff. My ex wife filled out the paperwork. $12/hour job and our daughter didn't qualify. How do people with decent jobs get financial aid for their children?

They don't.

 

[Searc]

Below are the only exceptions for not having to provide your parents financial information on FAFSA. If none of those apply to you, you are required to disclose your parents financial information. @mnrose you wouldn't be considered an independent student by today's standards.

If any of the below applies to students, then they qualify as independent students on the FAFSA:

• Was an orphan, foster child, or ward/dependent of the court at any time since the age of 13
• Age 24 or older at any time before December 31st of the award year
• Was determined at any time since July 1st of award year to be an unaccompanied youth who was homeless or self-supporting and at risk of being homeless
• Is married as of the date student applies
• Will be a graduate or professional student when the award year starts
• Is currently serving on active duty for purposes other than training
• Is a veteran of the U.S. Armed Forces
• Has dependents other than a spouse

 

[starry_solo]

I am confused. I have a special needs kiddo who is nearing adulthood and I will need to pursue guardianship as he is mentally stuck around age 3. Everything I have researched and been told about by other fellow special needs parents in similar positions-is that this process can be very hard. The state views giving up individual rights (as you do when you give guardianship to another-they can make medical decisions and such for you) very seriously-and rightly so. Therefore it can be a very difficult process. If proving to the court that my kid-who is incontinent, cannot dress and feed himself, and is unable to make basic safety decisions is hard when some of his disability can be visually seen-how on earth are these other people so cavalierly gaining guardianship over a typically developed almost adult? I mean I understand if Mom or Dad is unfit, but this literally comes across as just for the heck of it.

I believe it's called conservatorship....at least on CA

 

[RamblingMad]

Nothing new here.

I knew kids in the 90s who were doing this.

 

[NotUrsula]

Below are the only exceptions for not having to provide your parents financial information on FAFSA. If none of those apply to you, you are required to disclose your parents financial information. @mnrose you wouldn't be considered an independent student by today's standards.

If any of the below applies to students, then they qualify as independent students on the FAFSA:

• Was an orphan, foster child, or ward/dependent of the court at any time since the age of 13
• Age 24 or older at any time before December 31st of the award year
• Was determined at any time since July 1st of award year to be an unaccompanied youth who was homeless or self-supporting and at risk of being homeless
• Is married as of the date student applies
• Will be a graduate or professional student when the award year starts
• Is currently serving on active duty for purposes other than training
• Is a veteran of the U.S. Armed Forces
• Has dependents other than a spouse

The above is exactly correct, which is why I don't understand why anyone is getting away with establishing independent student status by simply transferring custody to some other private individual. The post-1991 rules state plainly that you must have been a ward of the court, which is not at all the same as being the ward of Aunt Judy.

As for those folks who are simply SOL when their parents refuse to provide tuition money or financial information for the FAFSA, they do have recourse: they can choose to wait to go to school until age 24 (or 20 after serving 2 years in the Army and continuing Reserve duty), or choose to get married now. I don't think it is at all fair, or right, but the US Federal Government has decided that that is the price for receiving Federal Aid based on your own income alone.

I do know students who have entered into sham marriages in order to qualify. Interestingly enough, this doesn't seem to be an option that the middle and upper-middle class are willing to use very often; early marriage seems to be a tactic that only the truly poor are desperate enough to go for.

As to colleges with different financial aid requirements for self-emancipated children, not really, unless you go to one of the few US schools that provide full scholarships for all students, either through donations or through work-study programs. (SEE: Berea, College of the Ozarks, etc.)

 

[luvsJack]

The above is exactly correct, which is why I don't understand why anyone is getting away with establishing independent student status by simply transferring custody to some other private individual. The post-1991 rules state plainly that you must have been a ward of the court, which is not at all the same as being the ward of Aunt Judy.

As for those folks who are simply SOL when their parents refuse to provide financial information for the FAFSA, they do have recourse: they can choose to wait to go to school until age 24 (or 20 after serving 2 years in the Army and continuing Reserve duty), or choose to get married now. I don't think it is at all fair, or right, but the US Federal Government has decided that that is the price for receiving Federal Aid based on your own income alone.

I do know students who have entered into sham marriages in order to qualify. Interestingly enough, this doesn't seem to be an option that the middle and upper-middle class are willing to use very often; early marriage seems to be a tactic that only the truly poor are desperate enough to go for.

Most school financial aid offices have a form to request the re-evaluation of dependency status. If they fit something on that form by their parent giving custody to someone else, the FA administration can make the decision to consider them indenepent. Those rules listed by the pp are the rules listed on FAFSA and most are going to go fall within those rules but there are always exceptions.

As for only the poor being desperate enough, the poor don’t have to do it as they usually qualify.

 

[luvsJack]

I don't even understand all this financial aid stuff. My ex wife filled out the paperwork. $12/hour job and our daughter didn't qualify. How do people with decent jobs get financial aid for their children?

You ex wife makes $12 an hour or your Dd? Unless there is other income listed and it is the Mom who makes that amount, she should qualify.
If it’s your Dd that makes that amount in addition to her Mom’s income, that is why she doesn’t. For whatever reason, dependent student income counts against them more.

 

[NotUrsula]

Most school financial aid offices have a form to request the re-evaluation of dependency status. If they fit something on that form by their parent giving custody to someone else, the FA administration can make the decision to consider them independent. Those rules listed by the pp are the rules listed on FAFSA and most are going to go fall within those rules but there are always exceptions.

As for only the poor being desperate enough, the poor don’t have to do it as they usually qualify.

No, not really. Pell Grants have been cut to the bone, and Federally-guaranteed loans have not kept pace with the cost of tuition or the cost of living. I could do it back in the early 80s when a BA from LSU *and* 2 years of room and board cost me $2800. Today, not so much.

(And I had to take out private bank loans to manage that at the time.; I borrowed a total of $3K to cover all my additional expenses for 3 years, because my minimum-wage jobs didn't pay enough. Every single year I had to go into the FA office on campus for my Pell appeal; and every single year they would suggest that my mother sell her car in order to pay my tuition. The catch was that my mother didn't own a car; she couldn't drive. She was disabled and lived on a Federal survivor's pension. She made a grand total of $4300/yr, which even back then was a pittance, and yet, every year the University initially insisted that we were not poor enough for a grant. Today even the poorest kids have to fight like wolverines to qualify for Federal aid.)

 

[luvsJack]

No, not really. Pell Grants have been cut to the bone, and Federally-guaranteed loans have not kept pace with the cost of tuition or the cost of living. I could do it back in the early 80s when a BA from LSU *and* 2 years of room and board cost me $2800. Today, not so much.

(And I had to take out private bank loans to manage that at the time.; I borrowed a total of $3K to cover all my additional expenses for 3 years, because my minimum-wage jobs didn't pay enough. Every single year I had to go into the FA office on campus for my Pell appeal; and every single year they would suggest that my mother sell her car in order to pay my tuition. The catch was that my mother didn't own a car; she couldn't drive. She was disabled and lived on a Federal survivor's pension. She made a grand total of $4300/yr, which even back then was a pittance, and yet, every year the University initially insisted that we were not poor enough for a grant.)

Financial aid is 1/2 my job. I do this every day. There is more to it than just income but for the most part someone considered “poor” does in fact qualify. Why you didn’t qualify, I couldn’t tell you but I can promise you we have one child households that make more than $4300 a year and do qualify. Your own income could have been a problem, but I can’t say for sure.

Pell hasn’t been cut. It’s over $3000 a semester and a lot of students qualify. Most community college students in our area qualify for at least some Pell.