Service Dogs (found one rule that looked suspicious, not at any Disney park)

[jrmasm]

Guide dogs may be free, but many/most service animals are not. For example there was a ton of local fundraising to acquire a service dog for a diabetic child in town. In any event, even OWNING a dog isn’t cheap between food, vet, license, etc.. Having some sort of proof of training and identifiable vest/collar/leash/harness would be a drop in the bucket to the lifetime expense of pet ownership.

I’m sorry that your daughter and others suffer from discrimination because of their disability - I have multiple hearing impaired/deaf family members myself. It’s also unfortunate that idiots without disabilities have made it more difficult for those truly in need by taking their untrained and unneeded animals everywhere they please. I was in Homegoods just a couple of weeks ago and there were TWO ”unmarked” dogs in the store, one big pit-bull mix and one smaller Pomeranian-type. The pit-bull wanted to lunge after the other dog. The owner said he was “in training”. Okay, exactly how long are people allowed to say that?

I’m pretty sure Home Goods is pet friendly. Doesn’t sound like that dog was dog friendly.

 

[vanillagirl]

FYI AndreaA i I know not all service dogs are free. That’s why some people need to train their own. They cannot afford one any other way.

You are the one who said service animals should wear a vest and if they can’t they aren’t well trained enough. Wrong. See my other post.

And yes here home goods and tj allow pets . Pit bulls are another discussion tho.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Guide dogs may be free, but many/most service animals are not. For example there was a ton of local fundraising to acquire a service dog for a diabetic child in town. In any event, even OWNING a dog isn’t cheap between food, vet, license, etc.. Having some sort of proof of training and identifiable vest/collar/leash/harness would be a drop in the bucket to the lifetime expense of pet ownership.

I’m sorry that your daughter and others suffer from discrimination because of their disability - I have multiple hearing impaired/deaf family members myself. It’s also unfortunate that idiots without disabilities have made it more difficult for those truly in need by taking their untrained and unneeded animals everywhere they please. I was in Homegoods just a couple of weeks ago and there were TWO ”unmarked” dogs in the store, one big pit-bull mix and one smaller Pomeranian-type. The pit-bull wanted to lunge after the other dog. The owner said he was “in training”. Okay, exactly how long are people allowed to say that?

It would probably be best to pick a situation you've encountered where only service animals are allowed. There are stores that are pet friendly and thus seeing an animal should not be cause for someone to automatically judge as a "unmarked" animal.

Also because there are service animals, support animals and therapy animals just by saying the dog was in training does not mean they were in training to be a service animal. In the case of what you saw, irrespective of the breed (as breeds are not part of the equation when it comes to the definition of these animals), you could tell someone at the store because regardless of pet friendly or not like someone else said they did not appear to be friendly in an ironic way and shouldn't be in the store. But that's not related to what "markings" the dog had or didn't have such that the OP was thinking about when it comes to this zoo's requirement, it's their behavior.

 

[Kestryl]

Since we’re all here anyways: please do not pet any dogs without permission from their owner/handler!

I was always taught to not approach or pet a dog with a vest; the flip of this meaning that a non-vested dog isn’t a service dog and could be petted, but of course that shouldn’t be assumed.

(Edit to say NOT approach!)

 

[Alicefan]

Considering it's against ADA to require paperwork how would it make someone's life easier to register something that which is illegal to require? Perhaps they should have filed a complaint with the Biltmore on that (and maybe they did). If they had issues with the service animal being there because of the nature of the mansion and the grounds that's one thing.

He always offered the dog's papers everywhere we went. I think it let the business know that we weren't just claiming to have a service dog so that we could bring his dog into restaurants. Just to avoid the side eye at the very least. Why would you risk running into a problem like at Biltmore? If you have everything you need whether it's required or not, it definitely saves hassle.

 

[Moliphino]

He always offered the dog's papers everywhere we went. I think it let the business know that we weren't just claiming to have a service dog so that we could bring his dog into restaurants. Just to avoid the side eye at the very least. Why would you risk running into a problem like at Biltmore? If you have everything you need whether it's required or not, it definitely saves hassle.

Because there are no official service dog "papers". There is no registration or certification of service dogs, so the papers don't really mean anything.

 

[LYSE]

The vest requirement is stupid and probably comes from a desire to make it obvious to other guests that it's a service animal and not a pet that was allowed in....even if anyone can buy one off Amazon.

If you feel strongly about it then:
1) contact the management via email about it explaining why it's wrong.

2) If that doesn't work have an attorney write them a letter explaining why it's wrong.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

There is no law that requires a service dog to wear a vest. Not sure if private entities can require it. The vests can be useful, but anyone can buy one, slap it on Fido and pass him off as a service dog, so their usefulness is limited.

ADA, as noted, requires no proof of service dog training whatsoever. (the difference between a service dog and a pet is that a service dog is trained to perform a task to assist a person with a disability (can be any task, but providing comfort is not a task unless the dog is trained to respond specifically to cues from its owner. your dog that licks your face when you are sad is not a service dog.)

Users of service dogs may have issues when in non-pet-friendly spaces where their service dog encounters an untrained animal (usually one that has been passed off as a service dog) that reacts. Service dogs are generally trained to remain passive and not react to other animals, and to concentrate on their job they are doing for their owner. In spaces that are already pet-friendly the owners know they need to be on guard.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

He always offered the dog's papers everywhere we went. I think it let the business know that we weren't just claiming to have a service dog so that we could bring his dog into restaurants. Just to avoid the side eye at the very least. Why would you risk running into a problem like at Biltmore? If you have everything you need whether it's required or not, it definitely saves hassle.

Yeah but there's no registry, there's no requirement, there's like nothing those papers prove. You don't need papers. You can't prove something that doesn't exist in the first place.

Only the misinformed business owner would require it and only the misinformed (and I don't mean that rudely) owner would think that is needed. Which is why I get the OPs question regarding documents.

Here's the information from the government themselves and pay attention to the second box:

CERTIFICATION AND REGISTRATION​

Q17. Does the ADA require that service animals be certified as service animals?
A. No. Covered entities may not require documentation, such as proof that the animal has been certified, trained, or licensed as a service animal, as a condition for entry.




__________________
Now if Biltmore wanted to refuse a service animal on the basis of their presence in their environment presents a hazard or if the service animal themselves has behavior that presents a hazard that is okay for Biltmore to deny access. But they cannot demand paperwork that which they are not allowed to ask for and paperwork that which doesn't actually exist and deny based on that.

 

[tinatark]

So funny when people say their dogs are "certified service animals"... no such thing! Also, there are people who look for businesses who are in violation of the ADA (like the Zoo) and file suit... businesses settle, then the people move on to the next "violator".

 

[tvguy]

So funny when people say their dogs are "certified service animals"... no such thing! Also, there are people who look for businesses who are in violation of the ADA (like the Zoo) and file suit... businesses settle, then the people move on to the next "violator".

Exactly.
People who genuinely need service animals and even handicapped parking placards are victimized by people who abuse the system.

Every once in a while they do stings in the downtown area here on handicapped placards and over half the people displaying the placards are either not the person it was issued to, or they have placards from dead relatives.

 

[Alicefan]

Yeah but there's no registry, there's no requirement, there's like nothing those papers prove. You don't need papers. You can't prove something that doesn't exist in the first place.

Only the misinformed business owner would require it and only the misinformed (and I don't mean that rudely) owner would think that is needed. Which is why I get the OPs question regarding documents.

Here's the information from the government themselves and pay attention to the second box:

CERTIFICATION AND REGISTRATION​

Q17. Does the ADA require that service animals be certified as service animals?
A. No. Covered entities may not require documentation, such as proof that the animal has been certified, trained, or licensed as a service animal, as a condition for entry.

View attachment 663763


__________________
Now if Biltmore wanted to refuse a service animal on the basis of their presence in their environment presents a hazard or if the service animal themselves has behavior that presents a hazard that is okay for Biltmore to deny access. But they cannot demand paperwork that which they are not allowed to ask for and paperwork that which doesn't actually exist and deny based on that.

Well they did. And we complied.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Well they did. And we complied.

Yes I know they did...that's why I said in my first post about the subject with Biltmore about making a complaint.

You however were the one who said

If you don't have papers, then you do NOT have a service dog at all.

So whether the conversation is about Biltmore or not you (and your ex) are misinformed about what a service dog is and are expecting people to comply with something that doesn't exist.

 

[Alicefan]

Yes I know they did...that's why I said in my first post about the subject with Biltmore about making a complaint.

You however were the one who said

So whether the conversation is about Biltmore or not you (and your ex) are misinformed about what a service dog is and are expecting people to comply with something that doesn't exist.

Okay.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Okay.

Now that you know those papers can go in the trash

 

[Alicefan]

Now that you know those papers can go in the trash

The dog died a couple of years ago.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The dog died a couple of years ago.

That's incredibly sad although I think you understood what I was meaning

 

[MakiraMarlena]

I saw an article recently about a woman who had a "personal protection dog, trained like a service dog." She took it running with her and it was supposed to protect her. ADA specifically excludes protection and guard behavior from the definition of service dogs; her dog is not a service dog. There was in the early days an issue with some "psychiatric service dogs" who had been trained to keep people a certain distance from their owners. These dogs are now trained to do so passively, by standing between the owner and the person approaching without using confrontational guarding behavior (such as training the dog to block its owner without facing the approaching person or barking). It's just interesting about what tasks service dogs can be trained to do. They're still not required to wear vests.