Rumored Changes to G+

[Cfabar1]

Not true. Booking are down and deluxe bookings are down more than any other category and that includes the discounts they have been giving

Disney has raised prices and offered fewer benefits to Deluxe guests.... The value has been diluted...

I also wouldn't stay at a moderate. I'd be much more inclined to stay off property. At least most deluxe resorts allow you to walk to a park.

 

[Philsfan77]

I find it insane to pay $1200 a night at a Deluxe resort which has no full-service amenities when you can stay at the Four Seasons for the same price and receive service deserving of that price. I experience a much better service level at the Swan Reserve than I do at the Poly or other Deluxe hotels and pay 25% of the price.

I think they have over-priced these resorts for what you receive in return. I can stay at the St. Regis in NYC for the same price and I get a butler! So maybe people are at their tipping point - not sure. I don't believe throwing free Genie+ in solves the value mismatch presented at these resorts.

I looked at a trip at the end of April today and both the Poly and the GF were actually more than $1200 a night - I recognize it is 2 months out and prices go up, but that's just wild to me! And believe me, I love nice things and nice hotels more than your average Joe, but people love to book them for the "Disney bubble" so more power to the people booking at these prices.

I just checked and they are both club level rooms pricing in that range at GF and Poly...and about $500 less per night than the four seasons standard room at that time period (April 25th-29th). The standard room was $626 at Grand Floridian in that range (22nd-26th) Poly was $712. I'd argue $500 less per night for club level isn't as outrageous as you're making it out to be (you actually get pretty darn good service when club level in my experience). They also aren't the same price like your post tries to indicate. Is a standard room at 4 seasons worth $1000-$1100 more per night ($4000-$4500 more over length of trip) versus GF or Poly? Possibly...simply a matter of personal preference. They aren't apples to apples because they aren't priced as apples to apples despite what your post is indicating.

I do agree with you regarding Swan and Dolphin though. We are DVC so we benefit from that, but I will say when we have an extra trip and pay cash, we opt for Grand Destino Tower or POP depending on what we are trying to accomplish with the trip because the added cost of deluxe doesn't do anything for us personally in those situations.

We have a cruise coming up and on the front end we are doing Grand Destino Tower Club Level for 2 nights (no parks), and then on the back end we are doing 2 nights at POP and going to Epcot and Hollywood Studios.

 

[Philsfan77]

I want to see YOY data when its released 2 earnings reports from now to get a feel for whats really going down. Comparing YOY data against the 50th isn't worthwhile to me. This upcoming report should be the last one thats compared against the end of the 50th celebration.

 

[Brian Noble]

They did convert GF to DVC because of fewer bookings.

This has been going on practically since 9/11 more or less shelved all cash-room construction at the resort. SSR was a conversion of the Disney Institute. AKV converted two floors of AKL. BLT replaced the CR North Wing. CCV replaced half of WL. RIV replaced a cluster of buildings at CBR. GFV took over one GF building. The Fort Cabins are being converted. In the same period, the only cash rooms they've built have been AoA (where construction started prior to 9/11) and Gran Destino (supporting the convention business, not tourism).

I've been saying this for years, but I believe 9/11 scared the **** out of WDW management, and they've been deleveraging risk ever since. I don't think it is just because of any supposed recent softness in bookings.

https://www.disboards.com/threads/disney-resorts-occupancy-rates.3526255/page-2#post-56147965

 

[focusondisney]

Comparing YOY data against the 50th isn't worthwhile to me. This upcoming report should be the last one thats compared against the end of the 50th celebration.

Agree. And besides the 50th, everyone agrees 2022 was abnormally high because of pent up Covid demand. In 2023, that domestic demand decreased & many people moved on to international trips they had postponed. Comparing to 2018 & 19 are more appropriate. And from what I’ve read, the 2023 numbers still aren’t down compared to then. One thing that is happening is people are changing their vacation habits. The traditional slow late January is now crowded & July is seeing lower crowds. So YOY isn’t accurate unless you look at the bigger, long term picture.

People have been doomsdaying Disney for as long as I can remember. Always predictions of resorts about to be shuttered, empty parks & big mistakes by Disney that will turn the public away. And yet, except for after 9/11 & the nationwide economic issues in 2009, none of that has happened. Maybe another catastrophic event will happen someday & these predictors can brag they were right.

 

[Philsfan77]

Agree. And besides the 50th, everyone agrees 2022 was abnormally high because of pent up Covid demand. In 2023, that domestic demand decreased & many people moved on to international trips they had postponed. Comparing to 2018 & 19 are more appropriate. And from what I’ve read, the 2023 numbers still aren’t down compared to then. One thing that is happening is people are changing their vacation habits. The traditional slow late January is now crowded & July is seeing lower crowds. So YOY isn’t accurate unless you look at the bigger, long term picture.

People have been doomsdaying Disney for as long as I can remember. Always predictions of resorts about to be shuttered, empty parks & big mistakes by Disney that will turn the public away. And yet, except for after 9/11 & the nationwide economic issues in 2009, none of that has happened. Maybe another catastrophic event will happen someday & these predictors can brag they were right.

One thing I will say based on my side hustle job...cruise bookings across that industry are way up (at least for me). I know people keep pointing to Universal possibly taking business away, but as the Cruise Industry continues to put full waterparks on ships, and tons of activities to do on their ships (ice skating rinks, rock walls, water slides, escape rooms and top notch shows and entertainment), while giving parents a chance to still relax and enjoy themselves while their kids are entertained, people are shifting more towards them. For me this is a bigger threat than Universal in terms of pulling guests away. Universal is doubling down on what it's good at and the same demographic they already dominate...but the cruise industry is making moves towards truly being fun for the whole family.

 

[Philsfan77]

One thing I will say based on my side hustle job...cruise bookings across that industry are way up (at least for me). I know people keep pointing to Universal possibly taking business away, but as the Cruise Industry continues to put full waterparks on ships, and tons of activities to do on their ships (ice skating rinks, rock walls, water slides, escape rooms and top notch shows and entertainment), people are shifting more towards them. For me this is a bigger threat than Universal in terms of pulling guests away. Universal is doubling down on what it's good at and the same demographic they already dominate...but the cruise industry is making moves towards truly being fun for the whole family.

With all of that said...Genie+ rumors...here is my prediction...when they announce Tiana's Bayou Adventure Opening, they will drop the new genie+ and LL structure along with it as well as reforms to the system.

 

[clarker99]

Not true. Booking are down and deluxe bookings are down more than any other category and that includes the discounts they have been giving

If we keep saying it over and over it doesn't make it any more true.
Guests are opting for higher-end choices. The avg spend going up $100/night is not bc people are choosing All-Stars over Deluxe. This trend should be coming down steeply if deluxe resorts are sitting empty.

 

[tjkraz]

It's a known fact the conversion of existing resorts to DVC is because of soft bookings.

If true, one of the causes of those "soft bookings" is because they're converting a lot of high-end customers to DVC owners.

The total number of rooms in the Deluxe + DVC segment has grown steadily over the past 20 years. In addition to deluxe room conversions (and replacements like Bay Lake Tower), they've added 900 rooms at Saratoga, 350 at Kidani, 150 at Grand Floridian, 400 at Riviera and approx 250-300 forthcoming at the Poly tower.

When you sell DVC points to a deluxe guest, they are no longer a future deluxe guest. But they're still coming back year after year. It's an evolution.

 

[juxtapose]

We're paying about $500 a night for BWI in April for a family of 4. I live in CO and want to go to the mountains in April (so not really on-season, more shoulder season) and the Marriot is $700 a night, Hyatt $600. So yes, Disney prices went up but compared to other tourist locations are not that high.

 

[marcar12]

With all of that said...Genie+ rumors...here is my prediction...when they announce Tiana's Bayou Adventure Opening, they will drop the new genie+ and LL structure along with it as well as reforms to the system.

I have been thinking this too.
It seems unlikely to me at this point that they will initiate Genie+ changes before Tiana's Bayou Adventure opens, because they would probably have to make some changes to tiering and/or ILLs again (at MK) after it opens. So it makes sense for those two things to start at the same time.

 

[thanxfornoticin]

I have been thinking this too.
It seems unlikely to me at this point that they will initiate Genie+ changes before Tiana's Bayou Adventure opens, because they would probably have to make some changes to tiering and/or ILLs again (at MK) after it opens. So it makes sense for those two things to start at the same time.

Yea, makes as much sense as any of the speculating going on! Tiana's is big milestone, and another one with rumors about how that opening will roll out. ILL? VQ? Maybe move Seven Dwarfs to Genie+/LL from ILL..... And we're probably going to be waiting months to find out! But I guess Tiana rumors will be a different thread!

 

[pindecisive]

Plus they are still only selling 1 day tickets, not like it's a bunch of people with APs that go all the time and don't mind waiting.

Disney probably makes the least on AP's, then children. I would guess their target moneymaker these days is Disney adults.

And I would also add that you are much more likely to trip over or get run over by a stroller at Disney than Universal.

One day they'll ban outside strollers due to space and safety restrictions and start charging for park strollers. I'm calling it now.

We don't use Disney's hotel services enough to notice if anything is missing. At this point, we just need a clean place to sleep, preferably within walking distance of a park.

Same. If we're staying "onsite" we're only there for the EE and how short a walk it is to the park.

I also wouldn't stay at a moderate. I'd be much more inclined to stay off property.

We fly in for the day way more often than we stay onsite. And agreed it's either onsite or day trip for us. I wouldn't stay on Harbor again if you paid me.

I do agree with you regarding Swan and Dolphin though. We are DVC so we benefit from that, but I will say when we have an extra trip and pay cash, we opt for Grand Destino Tower or POP depending on what we are trying to accomplish with the trip because the added cost of deluxe doesn't do anything for us personally in those situations.

We will likely never do DVC because staying at Swan/Reserve/Dolphin is free for us with Marriott points. If DL had a 5 star "onsite" Marriott hotel, that's where we'd be staying on the unusual visits we sleep over.

 

[Cfabar1]

I don’t disagree with the larger point that Swan/Dolphin/SR is a great place to stay. However, often I find it to be a terrible use of my Marriott points. And it seems to get worse every year!

If only Amex would let me pay for Hotel Collection properties at a penny a point…. I know they do for FHR, but not for Hotel Collection…

 

[SL6827]

I also believe the cabins not being booked, except during holidays, is why they are going to DVC as well. They were overpriced.

 

[SL6827]

With all of that said...Genie+ rumors...here is my prediction...when they announce Tiana's Bayou Adventure Opening, they will drop the new genie+ and LL structure along with it as well as reforms to the system.

Good call.

 

[SL6827]

Disney probably makes the least on AP's, then children. I would guess their target moneymaker these days is Disney adults.



One day they'll ban outside strollers due to space and safety restrictions and start charging for park strollers. I'm calling it now.



Same. If we're staying "onsite" we're only there for the EE and how short a walk it is to the park.



We fly in for the day way more often than we stay onsite. And agreed it's either onsite or day trip for us. I wouldn't stay on Harbor again if you paid me.



We will likely never do DVC because staying at Swan/Reserve/Dolphin is free for us with Marriott points. If DL had a 5 star "onsite" Marriott hotel, that's where we'd be staying on the unusual visits we sleep over.

Good call on the outside strollers. Never thought about that.

 

[mamaofsix]

Good call on the outside strollers. Never thought about that.

Unless Disney gets all new strollers, this wouldn't work very well. Disney's strollers do not work for younger babies and infants. If they can't yet hold their head up or sit, Disney strollers aren't suitable. Disney strollers are more for toddler age and up. They need to allow parents to bring in strollers and carriers for this reason.

 

[SL6827]

Unless Disney gets all new strollers, this wouldn't work very well. Disney's strollers do not work for younger babies and infants. If they can't yet hold their head up or sit, Disney strollers aren't suitable. Disney strollers are more for toddler age and up. They need to allow parents to bring in strollers and carriers for this reason.

Ohhh ok.

 

[kc51570]

Unless Disney gets all new strollers, this wouldn't work very well. Disney's strollers do not work for younger babies and infants. If they can't yet hold their head up or sit, Disney strollers aren't suitable. Disney strollers are more for toddler age and up. They need to allow parents to bring in strollers and carriers for this reason.

Agree, not to mention where would they store all these extra strollers or what would happen when they run out of strollers. They already charge plenty for the ones they do rent. My original comment about strollers was taken out of context and had nothing to do with price.