RUMOR: Sequel Trilogy to be De-Canonized

[imjustafatkid]

Pretty sure you meant to quote me. Rey is part of the story so that’s why I brought her up. I’m not sure what else you want from me? I like the movie. I’m not less of a Star Wars fan because of it. Now the The Rise of Skywalker I grow less and less fond of every day.

Rise of Skywalker did the best it could with what was left over. It was better than I was expecting, because episode 8 left nothing to work with. Could be my expectations were just nonexistent at that point.

There was no chance I was going to see it in the theaters though. I won't be paying for another Star Wars in theater until they admit how bad episode 8 is, apologize to their reaction to the multitude of fans who hated it for legitimate reasons, and work to fix it.

 

[rteetz]

Rise of Skywalker did the best it could with what was left over. Episode 8 left nothing to work with.

Agree to disagree. TRoS could’ve taken TLJ and finished off the Skywalkers but it was a mess. I do think Carrie’s death threw a wrench into everything. Her send off was good but could’ve been much better.

 

[BrianL]

I'm still waiting to hear what you actually liked about the movie. So far, you've said the "artistry." No one can claim the graphics weren't great. The story was garbage.

I didn't say anything about Rey, so I don't know what you mean by that. I'm not the one who made her lineage a central part of the story in all three movies. Apparently it was really important. The best character from the Clone Wars cartoon series is a force-sensitive female who isn't descended from anyone from the original trilogy.

Well, FYI, you quoted incorectly there - that wasn't my post - but I'll bite.

I liked the characters in TLJ, particularly Poe. He is the humorous space jock that we all root for, yet when it came time for his derring do, he stumbled. He learned something about looking at the bigger picture and leadership. He grew. I liked hermit Luke and his antics and his reparte with Rey. In the end he also learned about what he can do to help, and he did. I actually like the scenes on Canto Bite, and I love Rose's heart. It does turn out to not be a beneficial mission, but it highlights the ambiguity of war with DJ, who is quite interesting actually. I might have liked to have seen the sub-plot tied togehter better, but it's not really a problem. Somtimes missions go sideways. I also like the message of fighting for defense of what you love - a very Jedi sentiment. These are all things I like about the movie.

 

[YesterDark]

Yeah, but you basically said that I couldn't possibly have seen the same movie you did because I don't find flaws in the narrative structure. That's not a real argument.

I do respect that you have issues with the way the story was presented and not the typical reactions to the supposed political nonsense or jsut hating what ws done with Luke. I think TLJ was trying to be a bit subversive, which is not really a bad thing but I do think that they could have "earned" it more with a bit more backstory, but the movies were already running so long. I don't like the trend of fleshing things out in the books and stuff because most people will never read them (neither do I). So, sure there are a few issues here and there, but I think people forgive the OT for the same things - George obviously didn't have a full plan of Luke wouldn't be making out with his sister - and it just gets a little old to see the ST raked over the coals for similar sins.

There "a bit subversive" and then there is what Rian Johnson did. Let's be real here.

 

[BrianL]

Agree to disagree. TRoS could’ve taken TLJ and finished off the Skywalkers but it was a mess. I do think Carrie’s death threw a wrench into everything. Her send off was good but could’ve been much better.

I actually LOVE TROS - it's a bit fan-servicey, but I enjoyed it immensely. It was just so fun, the most fun since The Phantom Menace in my book.

 

[BrianL]

There "a bit subversive" and then there is what Rian Johnson did. Let's be real here.

I can understand that. That's why I say I think it would've worked better with a little more backstory about the hows and whys of how we got here. I can connect the dots personally, but they could have laid it out a bit better.

Sometimes I really think that they should do "Special Editions" of the movies, fan-cuts to smooth out the rough edges. I'd be in. I mean, is there anything in the orignal Special Editions that wasn't an improvement?

 

[rteetz]

I actualyl LOVE TROS - it's a bit fan-servicey, but I enjoyed it immensely. It was just so fun, the most fun since The Phantom Menace in my book.

Now you’ve lost me

 

[YesterDark]

Agree to disagree. TRoS could’ve taken TLJ and finished off the Skywalkers but it was a mess. I do think Carrie’s death threw a wrench into everything. Her send off was good but could’ve been much better.

That's the problem here. TLJ didn't leave anything to work with. The big bad guy was dead. The New Republic worlds were blown up. The First Order now "ruled everything" seemingly. No one cared anymore. The Resistance had like 4 ships left and no allies. Where does the story go from there?

In Empire, Han was captured and sold. Luke's hand got cut off and the rebel alliance was on the run but you got the sense that there was a lot of people in the rebel alliance where they could mount a comeback with some luck. TLJ was just the opposite of that.

Hell it was never properly explained how big/small/powerful/weak the New Republic, The Resistance, The First Order really were. It was an odd mix of groups.

Anyway, that's why TRoS was a mess and all over the place and like 5 hours long. They crammed 2.5 movies into 1 because for better or worse, JJ Abrams was trying to clean up TLJ's plotpoints completely.

 

[YesterDark]

I can understand that. That's why I say I think it would've worked better with a little more backstory about the hows and whys of how we got here. I can connect the dots personally, but they could have laid it out a bit better.

Sometimes I really think that they should do "Special Editions" of the movies, fan-cuts to smooth out the rough edges. I'd be in. I mean, is there anything in the orignal Special Editions that wasn't an improvement?

Then you get my point! The "worked better with a little more backstory" and "connecting the dots" need to happen on the screen! That's why the story work is shoddy at best.

 

[chasgoose]

Rise of Skywalker did the best it could with what was left over. It was better than I was expecting, because episode 8 left nothing to work with. Could be my expectations were just nonexistent at that point.

There was no chance I was going to see it in the theaters though. I won't be paying for another Star Wars in theater until they admit how bad episode 8 is, apologize to their reaction to the multitude of fans who hated it for legitimate reasons, and work to fix it.

TLJ left plenty to work with, most notably the whole idea that you don't have to come from some fancy bloodline to be special and that the whole cycle of violence between the Jedi and the Sith was what was creating an imbalance in the Force and that Kylo Ren was truly offering a new path and not just seeking global domination again. I really liked those aspects of TLJ, particularly the way it took the seeds Lucas planted in the prequel trilogy about how the Jedis were part of the problem and ran with them.

 

[chasgoose]

That's the problem here. TLJ didn't leave anything to work with. The big bad guy was dead. The New Republic worlds were blown up. The First Order now "ruled everything" seemingly. No one cared anymore. The Resistance had like 4 ships left and no allies. Where does the story go from there?

In Empire, Han was captured and sold. Luke's hand got cut off and the rebel alliance was on the run but you got the sense that there was a lot of people in the rebel alliance where they could mount a comeback with some luck. TLJ was just the opposite of that.

Hell it was never properly explained how big/small/powerful/weak the New Republic, The Resistance, The First Order really were. It was an odd mix of groups.

Anyway, that's why TRoS was a mess and all over the place and like 5 hours long. They crammed 2.5 movies into 1 because for better or worse, JJ Abrams was trying to clean up TLJ's plotpoints completely.

To be fair, a lot of the bolded can be blamed on TFA. Snoke was never anything more than an Emperor knock-off (even before we learned how literally true that was) and the whole First Order/New Republic/Resistance lanes were sort of explained but not properly, especially once the New Republic was basically eliminated. A lot of the set-up for TFA seemed to be based on Abram's desire to remake Episode IV and for no other clear reason.

 

[fatmanatee]

It's all over the place, here's one of the results: https://www.lastmovieoutpost.com/star-wars-to-retcon-the-sequel-trilogy-out-of-existence/

"The theme parks were empty and poorly reviewed even before COVID19, with feedback saying they felt like a food court and shopping mall rather than a Star Wars experience"

Well this is certainly a take.

 

[rteetz]

That's the problem here. TLJ didn't leave anything to work with. The big bad guy was dead. The New Republic worlds were blown up. The First Order now "ruled everything" seemingly. No one cared anymore. The Resistance had like 4 ships left and no allies. Where does the story go from there?

In Empire, Han was captured and sold. Luke's hand got cut off and the rebel alliance was on the run but you got the sense that there was a lot of people in the rebel alliance where they could mount a comeback with some luck. TLJ was just the opposite of that.

Hell it was never properly explained how big/small/powerful/weak the New Republic, The Resistance, The First Order really were. It was an odd mix of groups.

Anyway, that's why TRoS was a mess and all over the place and like 5 hours long. They crammed 2.5 movies into 1 because for better or worse, JJ Abrams was trying to clean up TLJ's plotpoints completely.

I felt they had plenty to work with. Was TLJ perfect? No but I am not sure any Star Wars movie is really. I think the biggest problem with the fandom is nostalgia. The whole point of the sequel trilogy is ending the Skywalker story and moving on. I think that was successful. I didn’t grow up with Star Wars so I don’t have that lifelong nostalgia that many do.

 

[BrianL]

Now you’ve lost me

I am an unabashed Phantom Menace lover and I will forever defend it. I saw it like 12 times in theaters. Wanna fight about it, I will refer you to exhibit A: Duel of the Fates.

 

[chasgoose]

I am an unabashed Phantom Menace lover and I will forever defend it. I saw it like 12 times in theaters. Wanna fight about it, I will refer you to exhibit A: Duel of the Fates.

I secretly kind of love Jar Jar Binks, he's funny. Also, he was a technological breakthrough at the time given that he was the first motion-capped character ever. Ahmed Best (who played Jar Jar, and did a really good job even if you hate the way the character was written) and Lucas never get enough credit for that.

 

[skeeter31]

This thread is a perfect example of why nothing will be done about the new trilogy. There are differing views of the film across the entire spectrum. For those that don’t like it, there are still the Legends books and comics to go back to.

 

[marcyleecorgan]

I have a more controversial opinion.

The ONLY movies made after the the original 3 should have been the Timothy Zahn novels.

*runs like Jawas are stripping my ship for parts*

 

[HairyChest]

Profitability is a huge part of what Disney will decide on Star Wars. I think this is something we can all agree on no matter how you felt about the sequel trilogy.
Now, it is my belief that there are 2 types of people that watch star wars. The casual fan that Disney catered to with the new trilogy AFTER The Force Awakens (They used the nostalgia of the previous films heavily to get the fans onboard with episode 7) and the hardcore Star Wars fans from the original trilogy and the prequals. The problem is the casual fans watch the movie in the theaters once. The hardcore fans watch the films multiple times. This is why episode 8 and 9 profitability went down drastically. If Disney recognizes this which I'm sure they do, and the recent injection of politics in entertainment doesn't intrude, Disney can very feasibly be going this route and making a alternate universe idea of what happened in Star Wars. After all in the current climate, Disney needs profitability more then anything else and what better trojan horse then Star Wars?

 

[YesterDark]

I have a more controversial opinion.

The ONLY movies made after the the original 3 should have been the Timothy Zahn novels.

*runs like Jawas are stripping my ship for parts*

Don't think that's controversial.

 

[moericus]

TLJ left plenty to work with, most notably the whole idea that you don't have to come from some fancy bloodline to be special

I never understood this argument and I hear it all the time to defend TLJ. There's literally hundreds if not thousands of Jedi that came from humble backgrounds and no Jedi blood relatives. It wasn't something new.

The overall problem with TLJ is it's supposed to be the tragic second act in an opera. Instead, Rey once again kicks everyone's butt, shows zero weaknesses, and shows force abilities well beyond her training.

As a stand alone movie its okay at best for like a Commando type character. As part of the trilogy with character progression it just makes no sense and hurt all of the characters.