ROFR and actual sale prices questioned

[Brian Noble]

There is no reason why you need to explain why you are offering what you are offering. You don't need to reference the ROFR thread, or anything else. Just make the offer you want to make. If it is accepted great. If it is countered, you can decide what to do from there. If it is rejected, move on. You can ignore the reason why it is being rejected. It does not matter to you.

In the same vein, no one is obligated to accept your offer, even if it is "market rate" per the ROFR thread. If they want more, that is their choice.

Finally, the ROFR thread is almost certainly the low end of the market range, for a variety of reasons, even though each individual report is truthful. For example, there is a bit of "competition" going on, in the sense that people who don't get the very best deals may not be posting to the thread. So, just because we might make offers in the ROFR range, doesn't mean everyone is doing that, or that sellers will necessarily agree.

 

[Sandisw]

This is the confounder keeping prices stickier than they should be. Otherwise, brokers would be pushing their clients to price contracts based on current market rates vs having so many listings sit for months. I have no idea why Disney does not crack down on commercial ownership.

They can not stop a business from owning contracts..they can only do so based on the total limits set in place in our contacts.

 

[Frederic Civish]

I am reasonably sure a broker I used stopped even presenting offers. Yes, they were on the lower side, but still well within the ROFR board (typically around the 2nd lowest price for a similar contract). I no longer use that broker.

By the way, there are many other wonderful sites we cannot mention on here.

A good broker has an OBLIGATION to present every offer to the seller, then, they can also, of course, give the seller their advice not to accept it. But presenting the offer is part of their job.

The thing is, everyone is different, with different needs, expectations and circumstances. For instance, some of the DVC contracts that come on the market are being sold because of divorce. The couple is separating and just want to get the money to divide up. This can be a mess, and I am sorry for them. But,selling the DVC can be a good thing for them. Depending on the amicability of the situation, the need for cash and other things, they might jump at an offer that others would refuse. This is just one example.

So, if you find broker that isn't doing their job, and passing on your offers, then move on. There are plenty of fish in the sea.

 

[mkatsy]

This is the confounder keeping prices stickier than they should be. Otherwise, brokers would be pushing their clients to price contracts based on current market rates vs having so many listings sit for months. I have no idea why Disney does not crack down on commercial ownership.

perhaps these VGF incentives were a way of testing the water to see what price point will pull customers from the resale market. I for one thought that direct was out of my price range, and now I own VGF direct. If they keep using this type of sales model, stacking MB & builder incentives, while ignoring ROFR they are going to pull resale down and some of these commercial owners that are carrying debt are going to drown.

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

So the economist behind Freakonmics said that a little more commission isn't motivating for real estate agents - the sale now is a bigger deal than getting a little more in commission at some time in the future.

Freakonomics also explains that is of the enormous amount of work they have to do per house. They can only list a small number of houses per agent at a time. DVC does not have that issue; an agent can (and in some cases, does) have dozens or even over a hundred simultaneous contracts.

DVC agents also have to deal with the angry sellers, which would be frustrating to deal with.

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

Are you telling me there's no way to monetize my 30 likes on my ROFR posts?

If you try you’ll probably get kicked off of Disboards.

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

There is no reason why you need to explain why you are offering what you are offering. You don't need to reference the ROFR thread, or anything else. Just make the offer you want to make. If it is accepted great. If it is countered, you can decide what to do from there. If it is rejected, move on. You can ignore the reason why it is being rejected. It does not matter to you.

In the same vein, no one is obligated to accept your offer, even if it is "market rate" per the ROFR thread. If they want more, that is their choice.

Finally, the ROFR thread is almost certainly the low end of the market range, for a variety of reasons, even though each individual report is truthful. For example, there is a bit of "competition" going on, in the sense that people who don't get the very best deals may not be posting to the thread. So, just because we might make offers in the ROFR range, doesn't mean everyone is doing that, or that sellers will necessarily agree.

I was aggressive in buying but I would definitely also be a jerk seller, holding out for the uneducated buyer who just puts asking price because they’re too timid to haggle.

 

[stevehudd]

I was aggressive in buying but I would definitely also be a jerk seller, holding out for the uneducated buyer who just puts asking price because they’re too timid to haggle.

I think that uneducated buyer just jumps into buying direct most of the time

You don't even need to be that aggressive buying anymore. All those posters on the ROFR thread have done the hard work over the last few months. Offer what everyone else got and you will find takers at the resort you want. Pricing is still soft and will keep getting softer without Disney's intervention.

 

[MsChristy12]

I think that uneducated buyer just jumps into buying direct most of the time

You don't even need to be that aggressive buying anymore. All those posters on the ROFR thread have done the hard work over the last few months. Offer what everyone else got and you will find takers at the resort you want. Pricing is still soft and will keep getting softer without Disney's intervention.

It's getting harder than 2-3 months ago. The offers I have been putting in, they either counter back just a few bucks down or want full price and their listing prices are high, like way higher than estimated value. Or it can be just my case because I'm looking for smaller contract. But I feel like in general, sellers are more firm at the moment.

 

[stevehudd]

It's getting harder than 2-3 months ago. The offers I have been putting in, they either counter back just a few bucks down or want full price and their listing prices are high, like way higher than estimated value. Or it can be just my case because I'm looking for smaller contract. But I feel like in general, sellers are more firm at the moment.

IMO small contracts deserve a pretty substantial premium. I wasnt making any offers 2-3 months ago, but I bet its like that again around the same time in 2024. Listings seem to be strongly seasonal.

 

[MsChristy12]

IMO small contracts deserve a pretty substantial premium. I wasnt making any offers 2-3 months ago, but I bet its like that again around the same time in 2024. Listings seem to be strongly seasonal.

Smaller contracts are definitely worth more, and I'm willing to pay more as well. But some of these listing prices are about $20pp over estimated value. I don't need to add-on, so moving on it is until the right one comes around!

 

[Sandisw]

A good broker has an OBLIGATION to present every offer to the seller, then, they can also, of course, give the seller their advice not to accept it. But presenting the offer is part of their job.

The thing is, everyone is different, with different needs, expectations and circumstances. For instance, some of the DVC contracts that come on the market are being sold because of divorce. The couple is separating and just want to get the money to divide up. This can be a mess, and I am sorry for them. But,selling the DVC can be a good thing for them. Depending on the amicability of the situation, the need for cash and other things, they might jump at an offer that others would refuse. This is just one example.

So, if you find broker that isn't doing their job, and passing on your offers, then move on. There are plenty of fish in the sea.

As someone who has sold a few contracts I gave the broker guidance on what offers were a no from the start and no need to present them to me.

So, sometimes, the broker already has discussed things with sellers ahead of time.

Just want to give a different perspective. And, I have sold with a few different brokers and did the same thing with all.

 

[smileyanna]

As others have mentioned, the ROFR thread here has both selection and survivor bias. If you are frequenting the thread, you are likely a more informed buyer. If you are posting your sale, you are likely pleased with the deal that you got and eager to share it. And remember that the ROFR thread only shows accepted offers; there is no OFFERS thread (as far as I know) where we list all the rejections. I would have a LOT of rejected offers to post since the current market prices are still mostly too high for me.

Offer as low as you want and have a thick skin about rejections. Brokers may have been given instructions from their sellers to ignore offers below a threshold, which is fair and efficient.

 

[GrumpyInPhilly]

Smaller contracts are definitely worth more, and I'm willing to pay more as well. But some of these listing prices are about $20pp over estimated value. I don't need to add-on, so moving on it is until the right one comes around!

That's what I'm doing.

 

[GrumpyInPhilly]

As others have mentioned, the ROFR thread here has both selection and survivor bias. If you are frequenting the thread, you are likely a more informed buyer. If you are posting your sale, you are likely pleased with the deal that you got and eager to share it. And remember that the ROFR thread only shows accepted offers; there is no OFFERS thread (as far as I know) where we list all the rejections. I would have a LOT of rejected offers to post since the current market prices are still mostly too high for me.

Offer as low as you want and have a thick skin about rejections. Brokers may have been given instructions from their sellers to ignore offers below a threshold, which is fair and efficient.

Me too.

 

[MsChristy12]

That's what I'm doing.

Let's hope we both find our contracts before the ROFR monster wakes up! Good luck to you!

 

[GrumpyInPhilly]

Let's hope we both find our contracts before the ROFR monster wakes up! Good luck to you!

Thanks. You as well.

 

[Lisa Ronan]

Maybe they pulled out? We got through ROFR on a loaded PVB contract in 2020. We had to pull out at the last minute as we had a call on our mortgage on our holiday home. I’m sure there must be some people who pass ROFR but never actually close.

I think they’re two sections under ROFR, offered and closed.

 

[Lisa Ronan]

As others have mentioned, the ROFR thread here has both selection and survivor bias. If you are frequenting the thread, you are likely a more informed buyer. If you are posting your sale, you are likely pleased with the deal that you got and eager to share it. And remember that the ROFR thread only shows accepted offers; there is no OFFERS thread (as far as I know) where we list all the rejections. I would have a LOT of rejected offers to post since the current market prices are still mostly too high for me.

Offer as low as you want and have a thick skin about rejections. Brokers may have been given instructions from their sellers to ignore offers below a threshold, which is fair and efficient.

I do think the thread includes offered and passed.

 

[Lisa Ronan]

Smaller contracts are definitely worth more, and I'm willing to pay more as well. But some of these listing prices are about $20pp over estimated value. I don't need to add-on, so moving on it is until the right one comes around!

Oh I’ve gathered that info I’m strictly looking at 100-300 point contracts I just can’t understand why a broker wouldn’t be informed on what the current direct offers are and guide their sellers accordingly. There’s no way I’m paying $175-185 plus MF and closing for resale when I can buy direct at $161. I feel bad for the sellers who also has a responsibility to do their own research before listing.