ROFR and actual sale prices questioned

[Lisa Ronan]

I am curious what others are finding regarding ROFR and seller accepted offers. I’ve put in a few offers in the last week at what I’ve considered a little below the average resale posted listings that have passed ROFR. I’ve used/offered through two different companies and the agents have both said that they do not think what is being shared as far as actual closing prices is not accurate. I’m going to assume anyone posting on the quarterly posts are telling the truth. Does anyone have any advice other than offer a higher amount? I realize owners have the option to reject the offer, but if it’s been sitting for months and months, wouldn’t you think eventually they’d sell?

 

[sipnride]

Are you saying that that the offers passed ROFR (and therefore you were able to purchase those contracts) or that they were taken by Disney invoking their ROFR (and therefore denied the opportunity to purchase)?

 

[Cfabar1]

Are you saying the prices on the ROFR board here are not accurate?

 

[Flash_Sloth]

Are you saying the prices on the ROFR board here are not accurate?

I think that the OP is saying that the resale sales agents say that the ROFR information posted here is inaccurate. I'd take that with a big grain of salt because their commission is based on the sales price, and a higher sales price means more commission. They want the sales prices to be higher.

I can't speak for anybody else, but I posted accurate information the 2 times that I've tried to buy resale; one was taken during ROFR, and I was able to close on the other.

Advice? Keep trying. Every transaction is a unique agreement between a buyer and a seller. What one seller considers a fair and acceptable amount may be completely different from the next seller. Some are in more of a rush to sell quickly and may accept a lower offer, and some are willing to wait. There is a bit of luck involved.

 

[jason423]

Most seem accurate. You can check for when some of the contracts gets processed by the county and you will find many of these contracts.

FWIW I think people who have been sitting on the market for awhile are those least likely to budge. A newer listing may be someone willing to sell for a lower cost. In terms of doing data analysis knowing about listing price, time on market, and brokers would be more helpful than just the eventual price.

 

[Jimmy Geppetto]

I am curious what others are finding regarding ROFR and seller accepted offers. I’ve put in a few offers in the last week at what I’ve considered a little below the average resale posted listings that have passed ROFR. I’ve used/offered through two different companies and the agents have both said that they do not think what is being shared as far as actual closing prices is not accurate. I’m going to assume anyone posting on the quarterly posts are telling the truth. Does anyone have any advice other than offer a higher amount? I realize owners have the option to reject the offer, but if it’s been sitting for months and months, wouldn’t you think eventually they’d sell?

What I heard was... you need a new broker.

Just ignore the "noise" of Brokers and stay committed and focused on the task. You will achieve success in time.

 

[lilsonicfan]

There do still seem to be brokers out there who say that the ROFR thread is inaccurate. As though the info can't be independently verified by searching the OC Comptroller site. I've found several Dis members' contracts there with a little digging. And as if people create accounts, sometimes years in advance, to post inaccurate information.

Maybe the better way to put it is that the ROFR thread doesn't necessarily represent the average resale prices as a whole for any given resort. Dis'ers are probably more likely to achieve better pricing.

That being said, if you have some time to kill, you can do a search on https://www.occompt.com/official-records/search-official-records/ to look up what the pricing has been for various deeds recorded in the last day, week, whatever.

As an example, I searched deeds recorded today, June 20, 2023 at SSR by putting the word "Saratoga" into the "Legal remarks" field in the Advanced search. The deed recorded at 2:20 PM today, if you click View - shows that the Deed Doc Tax paid was $96.60. Deed Doc Tax is something like $0.70 for every $100 of purchase price, so if you divide $96.60 by 0.007 = $13,800. That deed is for 150 points, so that buyer paid $92 per point.

 

[Lisa Ronan]

Are you saying that that the offers passed ROFR (and therefore you were able to purchase those contracts) or that they were taken by Disney invoking their ROFR (and therefore denied the opportunity to purchase)?

No, I’ve been watching the Disboards posted forum on offers that have not been taken by ROFR and therefore sold seller to buyer. I’ve logged the sales, banked points, etc, and gotten an avg per point price. I’ve based my offers on this information and they’ve been rejected through two different resale companies presenting them to their sellers. Just curious how it seems so many people are getting these phenomenal deals (that they are saying the got based on the required information on the post) and the agents I’m submitting through are basically laughing at me saying they’ve never sold one this low in years. Basically someone is lying and I’m just trying to figure out if I’m wasting my time tracking and making offers.

 

[Lisa Ronan]

Are you saying the prices on the ROFR board here are not accurate?

That’s what I’m trying to figure out. Because the agents are basically laughing at me while telling me they’re required to submit my offer.

 

[Lisa Ronan]

I think that the OP is saying that the resale sales agents say that the ROFR information posted here is inaccurate. I'd take that with a big grain of salt because their commission is based on the sales price, and a higher sales price means more commission. They want the sales prices to be higher.

I can't speak for anybody else, but I posted accurate information the 2 times that I've tried to buy resale; one was taken during ROFR, and I was able to close on the other.

Advice? Keep trying. Every transaction is a unique agreement between a buyer and a seller. What one seller considers a fair and acceptable amount may be completely different from the next seller. Some are in more of a rush to sell quickly and may accept a lower offer, and some are willing to wait. There is a bit of luck involved.

That’s what I figured Thank you

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

That’s what I’m trying to figure out. Because the agents are basically laughing at me while telling me they’re required to submit my offer.

They’re full of it.

They want you to bid higher to separate you from more of your money so they can make a larger commission.

It’s that simple.

 

[Lisa Ronan]

What I heard was... you need a new broker.

Just ignore the "noise" of Brokers and stay committed and focused on the task. You will achieve success in time.

I’ve used two completely different companies for offers but look daily at the big four. I’m looking for specific properties and a specific use year.

 

[LittleBitGoofy]

That’s what I’m trying to figure out. Because the agents are basically laughing at me while telling me they’re required to submit my offer.

When I submitted my first offer the agent was very polite but did mention she hadn't seen anything that low accepted. (I had. I was reading the rofr thread!) Two hours later she called back that the sellers accepted my offer.

 

[Lisa Ronan]

When I submitted my first offer the agent was very polite but did mention she hadn't seen anything that low accepted. (I had. I was reading the rofr thread!) Two hours later she called back that the sellers accepted my offer.

Wow that’s awesome!

 

[Jimmy Geppetto]

When I submitted my first offer the agent was very polite but did mention she hadn't seen anything that low accepted. (I had. I was reading the rofr thread!) Two hours later she called back that the sellers accepted my offer.

And when someone else bids $1-2 more than you did (on a similar contract) she will use the same script to another buyer.

Don’t let these brokers toss us around like used rag dolls. Educated buyers create a lot of work for them.

1. We tend to make multiple offers until we find someone willing to take our price = more work

2. They have to educate sellers on where the market is currently at (in the pits… no ROFR buybacks etc.) = more work

3. Sometimes they have to explain to the seller that their original estimated value of the seller’s contract was over stated (typically done to get the listing) = more work.

But the ROFR thread is inaccurate. Ok. Sure.

 

[Lisa Ronan]

When I submitted my first offer the agent was very polite but did mention she hadn't seen anything that low accepted. (I had. I was reading the rofr thread!) Two hours later she called back that the sellers accepted my offer.

All makes total sense! One would think the sellers would be doing their own research and listing based on that instead of listening to brokers that make their money from commission.

 

[Frederic Civish]

I think people try to be accurate with ROFR information, but what you need to understand is that sometimes Disney will take something on ROFR and other times they will let it pass, even though the price, available points for immediate use, and other things are better than what they just took.

I think (my supposition is) that Disney sometimes buys ROFR because they happen to like the deal, and sometimes because they just happen to have a buyer ready, willing to pay, and asking for a particular resort in a particular use year and possibly with other perks.

I have bought four contracts on the resale market, and I had two more that were taken in ROFR. I have relatives with similar experiences. I can't say that the ones I bought were somehow significantly different than the ones that Disney took in ROFR.

 

[Frederic Civish]

Another thing is, YOU, the buyer, have the right to make the offer at ANY price that you choose. And, the broker really should be willing to at least PRESENT your offer to the seller.

Yes, it is true that the broker gets a bit more commission on a higher price, but we are typically talking about a commission that is a few percent more, at best. So that shouldn't hold back the broker. And it is true that they might not expect or believe that the seller will accept the offer. Maybe they are right, but what does it hurt to try? Sometimes, a buyer may just be tired of waiting, or might have particular, individual reasons, for accepting a lower offer. So it hurts nothing to present it. And if they make a counter offer, as a few of the sellers I bought from did, then you can choose to accept that, or move on and try somewhere else.

You never know until you try.

This isn't from DVC, but is an example of how real estate can work. I once looked at a house in a particular neighborhood. We wanted to move there, because my wife's sister had moved there and my wife wanted to be close. I made an offer that was low, but, based on the market, I thought it was reasonable. The seller soundly rejected it. So we went away. But then, within 4 months, another house, just 3 doors down the street, came on the market. It was worth at least $150,000 more than the one I had offered on before. BUT, I put in an offer for $25,000 LESS than I had made on the other house. The real estate broker said our offer would NEVER be accepted. I told them to put in the offer anyway. Well, it WAS accepted. Turns out the seller had reasons why they just wanted to sell the house. So, I moved into a better house than I had originally planned, at a LOWER price. We still laugh at that, every time we pass the house down the street that we originally tried to buy.

You never know until you try. And that is the way it is with DVC. Tell the broker to present your offer and wait and see. And then hope you pass ROFR.

 

[Disney_escape]

I’ve used two completely different companies for offers but look daily at the big four. I’m looking for specific properties and a specific use year.

I bid on at least a dozen with several of the salespeople telling me I was way off on what was reasonable and not to trust the boards (actually caught one agent lying about submitting my offer, long story but he even called me to apologize). Funny thing is I actually started biding lower based on more research and got both properties well below what the sales people said was possible.
Keep making fair offers for the properties you want, and someone will bite.

 

[Genie+]

I’ve used two completely different companies for offers but look daily at the big four. I’m looking for specific properties and a specific use year.

Keep trying. Don’t be shy. It’s not like you’re wasting brokers’ time throwing out half-hearted attempts. Sounds like you know what you’d like and are ready to pull the trigger on an accepted offer.

Have you tried watching Fidelity as one of your big 4? Some other sites have resale aggregators listing (almost) all of the agencies which makes it easy to track and compare.

The brokers aren’t always up to date with their product either. I was tracking VGF resale for months and made a few offers. None accepted. Ended up buying direct because that was cheaper than what resale is listing and accepting. I’m still seeing resale contracts just listed at a significantly higher price than direct and some even with stripped. Out of their minds sometimes.