Real world towing specs

[chartle]

Ok Just went to the RV show.

For background I used to camp with my family of four in a small slept 6, 1,000 lb trailer when I was a teen ager.

Wow with a little digging I found it http://www.popupcamperhistory.com/venture1977brochure.html# Its on page 7 the Chalet.

We looked at a ton of RV's but know we will be limited to what we can or will want to tow.

Our next vehicle will be something that can tow a small trailer. Probably a Ford Edge 2.0 L Ecoboost, the Chevy Equinox with the the V6 or something else around that size (Auto show is in a few weeks). We are not going to get anything larger since hopefully its only going to be the two of us in the coming years until grand kids come along.

Vehicles in this class generally have a 3,500 towing capacity. We looked at a dozen or so Travel trailers and pop ups that the dealer put in the 3,500 towing class.

I don't have the specs right now but none were more than 3,000 lbs dry.

So am I being realistic thinking that we can pull a less than 3,000 lb dry trailer. I kind of once understood Gross Vehicle weight and other specs but its not like we are also filling up the car with people and putting a couple of hundred pounds of stuff on the roof. Also we wouldn't probably be carrying tons of water. We are now tent campers and would probably still be in that mind set. WE just want to be off the ground.

Also what about trailer brakes, when do you need them?

One other thing when did trailers get so tall. I know the Class A motor homes (the big ones right) are tall but I was in and out of tons of trailers that I not only had to walk up 3 or 4 stairs but they also had 8 foot ceilings.

 

[KristinU]

You will want something much lighter than 3,000 lbs dry. You're on the right track thinking about people and cargo and stuff - it adds up fast. Most vehicle tow capacities allow for just a single 150 lb. driver. (BTW, RV dealers will tell you just about anything to see you a camper)

It will also depend on where you live and where you will tow - flat land you can get away with a smaller margin, but hills and mountains you'll want a bigger margin.

And trailer brakes - YES!!! They saved our bacon multiple times, the closest was in Jacksonville on the way to the Fort. We would have clipped the jerk that cut over 3 lanes right in front of us had we not had brakes.


On the weight thing - here's our experience in that region that you're looking at: we had a Hyundai Santa Fe with a 3,500 lb tow capacity and an Aliner Scout weighing in at 1,500 lbs loaded. No brainer, right??? Add three of us (and we're not big people), a dog, a cooler, and a chuck box to the vehicle, then our bikes...and up some of the steep grades in VT and NH where we like to camp we were pretty under powered, like turning off the A/C and creeping up the hills kind of under powered. Once we started adding kayaks to the mix we knew we were abusing our poor Santa Fe, and quite honestly the reduction of performance can be dangerous in situations where you need to accelerate quickly.

Anyway, that's my .02 from experience. The big thing you have going for you is your tent camping experience, especially if you're backpackers...you're used to watching weight on everything so it is easy to think about where you can cut weight.

Happy shopping!

 

[iheartpeterpan]

Be sure to look at some of the vehicles you are mentioning WITH the tow package factory installed. I have a Highlander - which is often a comp vehicle for the Equinox - and the standard towing capacity without the tow package is 3,500 but with is 5,000. I routinely tow a high wall (heavy) camper with mine with no problem.

You do not want to push that weight. It's not the towing, it's the stopping.

And remember dry weight does not include the A/C, the full propane tanks, your camping gear, etc. I try to keep mine 1,000 pounds below my capacity.

 

[Teamubr]

You are thinking the right way on weight. A 3000# trailer (dry) may be a bit much for a vehicle with a 3500# tow rating. We always counted on 1000# of 'stuff'. This was food, clothes, chairs, fuel. We did have larger trailers (30 ft TT and now a 31 ft 5er). Shooting for 2500-2800# dry trailer may be a better fit and probably come in close to your tow rating when it is 'wet' and full of your stuff.

As for the vehicle, if you are buying new, definitely go with the tow package if it's offered. Your transmission and cooling system will thank you. Many people on other forums will claim you aren't safe if you are pulling more than 80% of your tow rating. I say that is dependent on your comfort level. Manufacturers rate the vehicle to the weakest system, plus a safety margin. My first diesel truck had a GVWR that exactly totaled the weight limit of the tires. The exact same truck with different tires was rated 2000# higher. This doesn't mean you should go over 100%, but towing up to it is fine as long as you are comfortable towing at that level.

Check with your state on requirements for brakes. Some states require them on trailers as low as 1000#. Many are 3500. I would recommend them if they are an option. You will need a brake controller (if the trailer has electric brakes). Learn how to set it so the brakes work for you and not against.

One last thing on the trailers. You mentioned the height of many trailers now. Lower trailers tow better and will get better mpg. Our race team has a 48 ft enclosed 2 car hauler that weighs 22,000# loaded. It is 11 1/2 ft tall. We also have a 44 ft toy hauler for our 3rd car and living quarters at the track. Loaded it weighs about 13,000#, but it's 13 ft tall. We actually get better mpg towing the 22,000# 48 ft trailer. Our old V8 Explorer also had a "frontal surface area" restriction on the trailer listed with the tow rating. It really does make a difference.

j

 

[bigdisneydaddy]

Many factors come into play here and some excellent points have already been made.
Acceleration, cooling system, brake system and wheelbase are ALL factors affecting how your vehicle will tow. The rating by the manufacturer is a starting point but not the total picture. Wheelbase is important to avoid the tail wagging the dog scenario where your long trailer whips your short tow vehicle. I am one of the 80% club, if you run your vehicle at its limit while towing you will wear it down. front drive vehicles are not strong towers, transaxles are not built with extra capacity, they are built to just get the job done by keeping weight and rotating mass as low as possible. Buy as much towing package as your manufacturer will put on the vehicle.
Dont even consider buying a trailer without brakes. A properly set up trailer with adequate brakes will sustain its own braking capacity and not tax your tow vehicle thereby saving your daily driver from a beating and making it last longer.
You are absolutely on the right track by considering your weights, thats where the smart efforts are spent.

Happy camping.

 

[Nixie]

Before you buy, grab the owner's manual of the vehicle and look for something called frontal sq footage towing capacity. That measures the drag your car can handle. There is a big difference between the drag a pop up has to the drag a travel trailer makes. The same car has to work harder to pull a travel trailer down the road at 55mph than pulling a pop up down the road at 55mph; all because of drag. Do not underestimate how quickly "junk" in the camper can add up. Propane tanks weigh about 37 pounds themselves. A deep cycle marine battery weighs around 45lbs. Your teetering on a hundred pounds right there and you haven't even added clothes, food, cooking supplies, etc. A lot of options are kept off of the dry brochure weights. If A/C is an option, that isn't added into that 3,000 dry weight. It all adds up very quickly.

 

[chartle]

Ok since tow packages were brought up I have an issue with them.

As an example both the escape and the equinox have a towing package. The equinox has a 1 1/4" hitch and the wiring package nothing about an extra tranny cooler.

The Escape includes a 1 1/4 inch receiver hitch, the wiring package and sway control which may just be a software update to the anti lock brake system but again no extra coolers.

Biggest issue is that I want a two inch hitch for things like bike carriers that I already own.

I can install the hitch and wiring with no problem. Etrailers has videos on how to install both.

If there is no extra coolers or real extra equipment might as well do it myself.

 

[iheartpeterpan]

The tow package on my vehicle included a wiring harness for a 7-pin trailer, a connection harness for my brake controller, a transmission cooling system and a heavier radiator. I also have the "sport" that has beefed up suspension springs (but that's with my model, not the tow package). If it's just a hitch and some wiring, it's not really a tow package and I wouldn't pay the big bucks.

I would not put my trailer at its weight on my car without all of these extras.

 

[bama_ed]

Lots of good advice here. You guys are the BEST!

If memory serves, I think some sort of brakes are required on any trailer over 1,000 pounds (might be 2,000 but I remember it's a nice round low number). I have a popup with hydraulic brakes. Some trailers have electric brakes which require a controller. In any case, anything more that hauls a lawn mower needs brakes.

And as other said, it's not towing the weight that is the issue. It's being able to STOP it (under control). So you need a GVW difference that is measurable and subtstantial.

Bama Ed

 

[chartle]

The tow package on my vehicle included a wiring harness for a 7-pin trailer, a connection harness for my brake controller, a transmission cooling system and a heavier radiator. I also have the "sport" that has beefed up suspension springs (but that's with my model, not the tow package). If it's just a hitch and some wiring, it's not really a tow package and I wouldn't pay the big bucks.

I would not put my trailer at its weight on my car without all of these extras.

I just double checked the Chevy is the class II hitch and a 4 write harness for somewhere around 350. At etrailer the class III hitch is around 160 and the plug and play wiring harness is 23.

 

[bigdisneydaddy]

I just double checked the Chevy is the class II hitch and a 4 write harness for somewhere around 350. At etrailer the class III hitch is around 160 and the plug and play wiring harness is 23.

You will need a 7 pin plug for a trailer with brakes, this will include the 12v power supply to the auxiliary battery on the trailer required by law for the breakaway switch.

 

[Teamubr]

Biggest issue is that I want a two inch hitch for things like bike carriers that I already own.

I think the reason the tow packages from the dealers only include the 1 1/4 inch receiver is due to the tow limits. Class 2 hitches are rated to 3500#. Class 3, the lowest with a 2 in receiver, is rated up to 5000#.
The manufacturers probably don't want to be encouraging anyone to tow over 3500#.

They make adapters that will let you use your 2 in receiver bike rack in the 1 1/4 inch hitches.

j

 

[chartle]

I think the reason the tow packages from the dealers only include the 1 1/4 inch receiver is due to the tow limits. Class 2 hitches are rated to 3500#. Class 3, the lowest with a 2 in receiver, is rated up to 5000#.
The manufacturers probably don't want to be encouraging anyone to tow over 3500#.

They make adapters that will let you use your 2 in receiver bike rack in the 1 1/4 inch hitches.

j

Yea I figured as much for the stock hitches.

I had a 1 1/4" 4 bike carrier and it was pretty flimsy and I hated the way the bikes were strapped in. There is a lot more selection in 2" bike carriers so thats what I got assuming we would just get a 2" receiver hitch on our next car.

We did use the adapter for our old Saturn Vue but it just doesn't work as well since the 1 1/4" adapter doesn't lock into the receiver so the carrier tends to rattle around and also its now a couple of inches further back than it should be.

 

[chartle]

Ok here is another contender

a 2014 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 Latitude

The towing package includes:

• 7 and 4 Pin Wiring Harness
• Class III Receiver Hitch
• Full Size Spare Tire
• Trailer Tow Wiring Harness
• 180-Amp Alternator (Unavailable with some configurations)
• 3.517 Final Drive Ratio (Unavailable with some configurations)
• Heavy Duty Engine Cooling (Unavailable with some configurations)

The problem is that when ever I say Jeep my wife starts talking about how they all roll over with just a light breeze. I think she is recalling a Consumer Reports article from maybe the 90's when as more people bought SUV's there were more and more roll over accidents and Jeeps had a bad rep.

I am pretty sure most SUVs and crossovers have anti rollover control now.

 

[SoccerDad]

It's great to research this BEFORE buying the vehicle and/or camper!

I've been through this myself a couple times within the past few years, when we upgraded first from a minivan and popup to a Chevy Traverse and hybrid camper, then again to an F-150 and traditional travel trailer.

One thing that stood out to me was that in many cases, the advertised towing capacity for a vehicle only applies when the vehicle comes equipped with the manufacturer's towing package. For example, Chevy advertised the Traverse as capable of towing up to 5,000 lbs., but that number fell to something like 2,000 if the vehicle didn't come equipped with the towing package. Finding a Traverse with the towing package was a serious challenge.

I found trucks to be just as bad, or in some ways worse...because there are so many different combinations of features with the trucks that factor in to their towing capacities.

 

[bigdisneydaddy]

Ok here is another contender

a 2014 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 Latitude

The towing package includes:

• 7 and 4 Pin Wiring Harness
• Class III Receiver Hitch
• Full Size Spare Tire
• Trailer Tow Wiring Harness
• 180-Amp Alternator (Unavailable with some configurations)
• 3.517 Final Drive Ratio (Unavailable with some configurations)
• Heavy Duty Engine Cooling (Unavailable with some configurations)

The problem is that when ever I say Jeep my wife starts talking about how they all roll over with just a light breeze. I think she is recalling a Consumer Reports article from maybe the 90's when as more people bought SUV's there were more and more roll over accidents and Jeeps had a bad rep.

I am pretty sure most SUVs and crossovers have anti rollover control now.

Yes, our 2010 Wrangler has roll stability control, unless its shut off in 4 low you cant even slide the truck in a turn.

 

[supergoofy]

Near 6 years of heavy rental experience and 2 years at U Haul so I have hooked up thousands of trailers to all sorts of things.

Like others have said its not the pulling its the stopping that is the issue.

I would deduct 1,000 pounds off your tow rating when you factor in your weight, fuel, water, etc.

As for the tow package you definitely want trailer brakes as it will help stop the trailer and not over work your vehicle.

You will want a tranny cooler which you can install yourself or have it done. They make "universal" ones.

Other things to consider are putting on an aluminum finned extra capacity tranny pan. It will dissipate the heat quicker and keeping the fluid cooler will save the tranny.

I don't know the vehicle you are buying in particular but if it has a rear differential cover you can also get a similar cover for it which will also help the vehicle.

 

[AlbertZeroK]

There are many ultra light solutions on the market, but you want to be 1,000 under the capacity of the vehicle. But if the trailer does not come with breaks, I think you are better off upgrading the breaks on your vehicle than you trailer. I drive my F250 in traffic all the time and the next upgrade I do is breaks because I just put performance breaks pads and rotors on my jeep wrangler and it's stopping power is amazing now.

In the smaller line of cars that you are discussing, towing can be a strain on the car as well, even if you are under weight. So make sure to get an extended warrantee, you might need it. As the owner of a 3/4 ton truck, I can tell you clearly, that unless its built to tow from the ground up, it's not really ment to tow.

 

[articfox676]

Keep in mind towing is one thing. Sway is another. Don't forget you have to be able to stop what you are towing in case of emergency. Like the people who try to cut you off when they merge. Like they can't see us coming???

 

[bigdisneydaddy]

Keep in mind towing is one thing. Sway is another. Don't forget you have to be able to stop what you are towing in case of emergency. Like the people who try to cut you off when they merge. Like they can't see us coming???

I love it when they get to the end of a 1/2 mile long ramp and THEN decide to look for a place to merge. My rig is almost 60 ft long and weighs over 16,000# all told, its not like I can just jump into the other lane. Going through Ann Arbor is the worst, Yuppie scum and Honda's are a menace when combined.