Proof WDW inflates wait times during off peak season

[twodogs]

True.

I don’t have any issue with Disney trying to increase profits, however hopefully it’ll continue to be done with their purpose in mind of providing customers magical experiences. It’ll be tough for me to continue wanting to go to WDW once we start seeing $$$ for fast passes, $$$ to enter early or stay late, $$$ for this or that. Of course it’ll all be optional, but personally rubs me the wrong way and I’d rather spend my money on something else. It’s already expensive as it is.

Aren’t we already there and beyond? There already is a pay-to-play FP system (actually several of them: private VIP tours, group tours like Sum of All Thrills, the Club Level FPs, etc), paid early and late entry (EMM, DAH) and so much more that is extra. I completely agree that wait times are being artificially inflated, and if they can cut down on CMs, that is just a bonus. I think the real reason is to create “scarcity” and that translates into more people wanting to go to Disney because it must be great if it is always packed/long waits (and like a limited edition pin or handbag, the more scarce it is seen as being, the more some people want it). It also translates to more people feeling like the ONLY way to have a good experience since it is always long waits/crowds is to pay for add-on events or services. Disney then gets your ticket money and even more money for the add-on. The manufacturing of scarcity is really upsetting, and I think this is what is happening...

It doesn’t mean that the practice isn’t the best for the shareholders, because whatever drives shareholder value is what they want. But it is going to turn off some guests. Disney is banking on the seemingly unlimited supply of other guests to fill that void. They already have a captive audience in DVC owners who can’t just decide they don’t want to do Disney anymore because they are fed up (or at least it is not cheap or simple to do that). If it bothers enough guests, attendance will decline. Until and unless it does, they will keep doing it, in my opinion.

 

[Louie7080]

I'd love to hear from current CMs on this topic! No one has to know who you really are - stay anonymous!

 

[motherof5]

I noticed this a few times in August and was baffled. Never as bad as your experience though.

 

[reiella]

They want to keep you on property as many days as possible? If you can get through a park in half a day, you won't need as many days and might frequent other Orlando attractions.

The real problem with that is any time in line that you're not able to shop...

 

[toonaspie]

I might be the only one here but it seemed like a lot of attractions lately seemed to have some sort of technical difficulty down time. "Temporarily closed" would show up numerous times for attractions in all four parks. We tried to do Pirates Sunday morning and it was down. When we went back an hr later, it was open with a 40 min wait and only one line moving. Loading and unloading was practically happening from the same spot and I kept thinking "man, Pirates' loading is pretty lousy!" Our actual wait ended up being close to an hour.

With certain rides in our case it was hit or miss. Some waits had shorter lines than posted while others had longer waits than posted. It was mind boggling to me that Test Track had a much longer wait one evening we were there than Frozen did. (Never got to ride it as a result as there was no time.)

 

[SL6827]

I'd love to hear from current CMs on this topic! No one has to know who you really are - stay anonymous!

I agree! No way Disney would be able to ID you, correct?

 

[Average Joes]

I am surprised by this. We were there Sept 5-15. It was not an issue for us. I actually was surprised that everything seemed to be running at full capacity. Pirates had both sides running and so did Space. These were a couple of 1/10 days (per touring plans) on Friday Sept 7 &14. They were party days. When we were there in Feb 2017 they ran those rides at half capacity and it was busier (4/10).

 

[SL6827]

With reports and pictures to prove it is happening and then others not seeing it, it seems like just luck of the draw as to having to deal with it? I do wish some CM could come on here and tell what they know. I know the next time when we go to the parks, probably will be later on after SWGE opens, I will try to be more observant.

 

[whiporee]

There are a lot of pitchforks on this thread, so I'll stay out of the fight. But I do want to point out that loading less than the maximum amount of riders does save on the wear and stress of the rides. I'm sure that's part of the calculation when WDW opens or closes or slow-loads a ride. They also might have a situation where a guests with disabilities is on a Pirates boat a few ahead, and they know it will take more time to unload them, so they let a few boats go empty to reduce frustration later.

I will say that there has been no empirical data collected by the people who do this professionally that shows WDW reduced capacity on any kind of widescale basis. Last January, Pete showed a 5 percent reduction, but that was gone by the spring. As much as we all rely on anecdotes to make judgements, there hasn't been any actual evidence to show capacity reduction, and certainly none to suggest that it's being done for purposes of inflating wait times. That said, i do think WDW has an acceptable wait time threshhold (probably 15 minutes), and if that threshhold can be maintained with one side running, they feel justified in doing so. We may not like it as guests, but I think it's always been the case.

 

[snappy]

There are a lot of pitchforks on this thread, so I'll stay out of the fight. But I do want to point out that loading less than the maximum amount of riders does save on the wear and stress of the rides. I'm sure that's part of the calculation when WDW opens or closes or slow-loads a ride. They also might have a situation where a guests with disabilities is on a Pirates boat a few ahead, and they know it will take more time to unload them, so they let a few boats go empty to reduce frustration later.

I will say that there has been no empirical data collected by the people who do this professionally that shows WDW reduced capacity on any kind of widescale basis. Last January, Pete showed a 5 percent reduction, but that was gone by the spring. As much as we all rely on anecdotes to make judgements, there hasn't been any actual evidence to show capacity reduction, and certainly none to suggest that it's being done for purposes of inflating wait times. That said, i do think WDW has an acceptable wait time threshhold (probably 15 minutes), and if that threshhold can be maintained with one side running, they feel justified in doing so. We may not like it as guests, but I think it's always been the case.

You see pitchforks I see rose colored glasses. It’s all point of view and past experience I suppose. To each his own.

 

[SaharanTea]

There are a lot of pitchforks on this thread, so I'll stay out of the fight. But I do want to point out that loading less than the maximum amount of riders does save on the wear and stress of the rides. I'm sure that's part of the calculation when WDW opens or closes or slow-loads a ride. They also might have a situation where a guests with disabilities is on a Pirates boat a few ahead, and they know it will take more time to unload them, so they let a few boats go empty to reduce frustration later.

I will say that there has been no empirical data collected by the people who do this professionally that shows WDW reduced capacity on any kind of widescale basis. Last January, Pete showed a 5 percent reduction, but that was gone by the spring. As much as we all rely on anecdotes to make judgements, there hasn't been any actual evidence to show capacity reduction, and certainly none to suggest that it's being done for purposes of inflating wait times. That said, i do think WDW has an acceptable wait time threshhold (probably 15 minutes), and if that threshhold can be maintained with one side running, they feel justified in doing so. We may not like it as guests, but I think it's always been the case.

It's certainly not a constant thing, but it has been noticed by guests and bloggers alike over a several year period. While Disney isn't going to come out and talk about it, it's almost certainly tied to saving money.

I've seen it firsthand. It's not at pitchfork level, but it doesn't leave you with a good, "magical" impression either.

 

[Superchikk]

What's interesting to me is that Disney knows that 60% of their guests are "one and done" visitors. We were told that last week in our KTTK tour by the tour leader, who works in Guest Services. He said they strive to make everyone's trip as magical as possible due to it being the ONLY Disney parks experience for 6/10 people they come in contact with. So that makes me wonder why they manipulate ride wait times, etc. I feel like more of those 60% would come back if they felt like there was more value in their trip.

I have friends who have yet to take their families and the first thing out of their mouths is "It's so expensive. We can go do (fill in the blank) for half the cost." They're not always wrong, but I feel like if they saw more value in their dollar, they'd not only go, they'd be repeat customers.

But what do I know? I'm part of the 40% who keeps going back. Ha!

 

[mick1229]

I hope that Len Testa can come back on the show soon to update some of the findings of Touring Plans..Not only is he incredibly smart,also very funny and entertaining

 

[snappy]

What's interesting to me is that Disney knows that 60% of their guests are "one and done" visitors. We were told that last week in our KTTK tour by the tour leader, who works in Guest Services. He said they strive to make everyone's trip as magical as possible due to it being the ONLY Disney parks experience for 6/10 people they come in contact with. So that makes me wonder why they manipulate ride wait times, etc. I feel like more of those 60% would come back if they felt like there was more value in their trip.

I have friends who have yet to take their families and the first thing out of their mouths is "It's so expensive. We can go do (fill in the blank) for half the cost." They're not always wrong, but I feel like if they saw more value in their dollar, they'd not only go, they'd be repeat customers.

But what do I know? I'm part of the 40% who keeps going back. Ha!

Yea I am in that 40 % too. Most of my friends scratch their heads. But I think things have changed. In my view, some of the experiences since we started going frequently that I valued the most have been cut back or eliminated. Osborne lights, the give a Tink pin to another guest, the Hunchback of Notre Dame live musical, many others. I am not a big ride person or shopping person, I like interacting, live music, healthy and unique foods. It’s getting harder.

 

[SL6827]

Disney loves the first timers.

 

[whiporee]

It's certainly not a constant thing, but it has been noticed by guests and bloggers alike over a several year period. While Disney isn't going to come out and talk about it, it's almost certainly tied to saving money.

I know people keep saying it. What I'm arguing is that there's no evidence that WDW reduces capacity beyond what you'd normally expect. When I say no evidence, what I mean is that the TP guys studied -- counted people -- it and have said there's not been a capacity reduction except for the anomaly they saw in January 2018. This is as close to fact as we get -- they counted the number of people leaving the ride. We've had about six long threads about this since then, and the TP guys have reiterated that point. They have studied the numbers and said it doesn't happen on any scale that would make you think the occasional event is by design.

Yes the OP has pictures, but they do lead to questions: Was there a line waiting for teacups, or did they run it with that many people because that's all that wanted to ride? How long were the waits at Space and R&R when the side was down? Did they watch one or two empty boats go by on POTC, or was every other boat empty? And for how long did this go on?

I know that everyone waits longer than they want. But I'll say it again -- the plural of "anecdote" is not "data." No matter what we believe or want to believe or don't want to believe, the last data we have been shown says there has not been a reduction in capacity. At some point, you either accept evidence as fact or you don't.

 

[Doug M]

I know people keep saying it. What I'm arguing is that there's no evidence that WDW reduces capacity beyond what you'd normally expect. When I say no evidence, what I mean is that the TP guys studied -- counted people -- it and have said there's not been a capacity reduction except for the anomaly they saw in January 2018. This is as close to fact as we get -- they counted the number of people leaving the ride. We've had about six long threads about this since then, and the TP guys have reiterated that point. They have studied the numbers and said it doesn't happen on any scale that would make you think the occasional event is by design.

Yes the OP has pictures, but they do lead to questions: Was there a line waiting for teacups, or did they run it with that many people because that's all that wanted to ride? How long were the waits at Space and R&R when the side was down? Did they watch one or two empty boats go by on POTC, or was every other boat empty? And for how long did this go on?

I know that everyone waits longer than they want. But I'll say it again -- the plural of "anecdote" is not "data." No matter what we believe or want to believe or don't want to believe, the last data we have been shown says there has not been a reduction in capacity. At some point, you either accept evidence as fact or you don't.

Did I miss where TP claimed this was no longer occuring during "slower" times like what they witnessed in January?

 

[whiporee]

TP said they saw it for a three or four week period in January/February, and then it stopped. It's in the interview -- not the podcast -- and it's in at least one of the threads.

 

[Jimmy Mouse]

Yes the OP has pictures, but they do lead to questions: Was there a line waiting for teacups, or did they run it with that many people because that's all that wanted to ride? How long were the waits at Space and R&R when the side was down? Did they watch one or two empty boats go by on POTC, or was every other boat empty? And for how long did this go on?.

There were about 20 people behind us on Teacups. The lady in front of us in the pic was not with us. They stopped loading while we were in line.

Space was first done with FP+ and it was 5 minutes at most. It was the first time my 4 year old could ride so we talked mama into riding. They both said never again lol. Me and my 7 yo got back in line. we waited about 30 minutes. I know they hold the line for FP but they held us even though there were no FP people coming. They held us till more FP people showed up and finally let us go.

RnR was a FP+ for just me and DD7 that time. Wife rode first with rider swap. We waited for front row (just one pair in front of us) we got to loading and watched the train load, one empty came by. Another train loaded, another empty went by. Then we loaded. Also watch empty trains go from the fence before we got to loading. I have a video but don't know how to load it.

Pirates sent empty boats. Didn't count exactly how many but I seen more than a few go empty before we boarded.

Splash was also really weird. Every time we rode the boats backup in the zippity do da section after the big drop but the last time we rode it was so much better. We had small backups in the big show area and held on a few hills but after the big drop it was no stopping to the unload platform. I didn't see any empty boats on splash.

 

[SaharanTea]

I know that everyone waits longer than they want. But I'll say it again -- the plural of "anecdote" is not "data." No matter what we believe or want to believe or don't want to believe, the last data we have been shown says there has not been a reduction in capacity. At some point, you either accept evidence as fact or you don't.

I'm not sure anyone is making claims about how widespread or deep it is, but there's definitely a pattern of different people noticing some amount of it at different times.

I will say the really bad times that got people in a bit of an uproar seems to be more anomolous and rare.

One of the times I personally witnessed was during evening EMH at pirates. Now, you could argue crowds should be less so why go full capacity? My argument would be why not pay three more college program kids to keep the other side of the ride open during a time Disney explicitly advertises lower crowd times for it's onsite guests. Is that particular moment a huge, rage-inducing problem? No. But it sure helped usher in my opinion that EMH isn't worth all that much, which lowered my opinion of staying onsite.