Priority Booking - Owners vs Rented Points

[crisi]

It's from a quote that Chapek made regarding "preferred guests". To paraphrase, he basically said that "families from Denver" ( one time guests) are more valuable guests than annual passholders, because they spend more. Thus Disney is limiting the number of AP guests to make more room for guests like the "Families from Denver".

And we have known that we DVCers and AP holders are the bread, but the people Disney really wants are the one timers - or the couple timers - who come and spend a lot of money on one vacation and buy princess dresses for their kids and do three character meals. DVCers just don't spend enough - the pitch was that this was a way to save money - and while I often say it isn't really a way to save money - mostly because we stay in larger units than we would have and bring friends and family - not because we spend a lot more on princess dresses and Mickey ears - DVCers per trip do not spend as much money as a family taking their first and probably only trip - Disney WANTS to be selling a lot of high margin Mickey ears.

Disney parks - pre-Covid - had pretty much managed to be near capacity year round with few slow times - sure there were times that were REALLY busy, but nearly every time of year had long lines and too many people to see everything. In the 1980s and 1990s Disney solved this problem for a time by adding gates - but they really don't have much room to do that now. So the only way to wring more money out of the parks is by increasing per guest spending.

 

[808blessing]

When I thought it was going to be just a one and done visit, I wanted to do it very cheap.

Disney needs to court DVC. As time goes on and I come more and more, I have been more accustomed to Disney high life, restaurants etc and want to try all the things for novelty each time I return.

The one timers might just be the PB and J crowd scrimping bc it has to be a once in a lifetime thing.

They need to court loyalty. It pays handsomely with Disney....I need to write an article.

 

[Sandisw]

When I thought it was going to be just a one and done visit, I wanted to do it very cheap.

Disney needs to court DVC. As time goes on and I come more and more, I have been more accustomed to Disney high life, restaurants etc and want to try all the things for novelty each time I return.

The one timers might just be the PB and J crowd scrimping bc it has to be a once in a lifetime thing.

They need to court loyalty. It pays handsomely with Disney....I need to write an article.

Except when Disney looks at those one time guests and compare it to a repeat guest, it’s not one to one family.

So, if I am gonna 5 times a year and spend $10k that year, they are comparing that to 5 diffeeent families who come once and spend maybe $3k. But collectively they spend $15k..which is more than me.

Disney has the numbers they need and make decisions based on that. They want repay customers but I don’t think they want them enough to cater.

In terms of DVC? I think it’s the money they make selling the resorts that matter and not the continued spending we may or may not do.

 

[CarolynFH]

In terms of DVC? I think it’s the money they make selling the resorts

And the money they save by having the owners pay to maintain the resort buildings and operate the resorts while they rent out villas for cash.

 

[AaronEuth]

I don't see anyway DVC could stop rentals. Even if they went to the extreme extreme length of requiring a deeded member for all reservations, it just means rentals change to subtract one from the room capacity. A 5 person studio now holds 4 renters, and me as the lead guest (who never actually goes).

 

[Sandisw]

I don't see anyway DVC could stop rentals. Even if they went to the extreme extreme length of requiring a deeded member for all reservations, it just means rentals change to subtract one from the room capacity. A 5 person studio now holds 4 renters, and me as the lead guest (who never actually goes).

As shared, they can not legally stop renting without a change to the POS, which would require a vote of all owners, as it would be a material change to the product. This would include trying to force an owner to be listed...which, as you have listed, is pretty easy to get around.

 

[TinkAgainU]

It's from a quote that Chapek made regarding "preferred guests". To paraphrase, he basically said that "families from Denver" ( one time guests) are more valuable guests than annual passholders, because they spend more. Thus Disney is limiting the number of AP guests to make more room for guests like the "Families from Denver".

Thanks - I had not heard (or recalled) the phrase. One overlooked detail, while the DVC and AP people may not seem to spend on all the trinkets, we are also not the ones melting down because we cannot get on the headliner rides every trip. If I go 6-8 times to Disneyland, I'm hitting Haunted Mansion maybe one time, and only if there is almost no line. But when I bring (full $ paying friends) I'm making sure they spend their money on all the good extras Plus, I'm a free non-stop Disney promoter wandering around in the world!

 

[crisi]

Oh, DVCers melt down plenty. "Do you know how much I paid to own DVC!!!!!" And a lot of DVCers do go on headliners every trip - especially those with families, since kids want to do them again (and are only kids so long).

As I said, in the first stage of expansion, Disney was able to add money to the parks and resort bottom line by increasing capacity by opening new gates. In the second stage, they built hotels that they then "rented" back to us, recouping not only the capital cost and all the future operating costs for the hotel, but making a tidy profit. The issue is that has put a lot of guests in the parks - guests won't don't spend on things with margin. And that money machine of building DVC hotels has probably reached its capacity - not because they can't build more hotels, but because they can't fit more of their desired people in the parks. So now Disney needs a third plan for growing the bottom line. Right now, that's adding things like Genie+.

https://www.economist.com/briefing/...s-100-its-business-is-on-a-rollercoaster-ride

 

[DonMacGregor]

Oh, DVCers melt down plenty. "Do you know how much I paid to own DVC!!!!!" And a lot of DVCers do go on headliners every trip - especially those with families, since kids want to do them again (and are only kids so long).

As I said, in the first stage of expansion, Disney was able to add money to the parks and resort bottom line by increasing capacity by opening new gates. In the second stage, they built hotels that they then "rented" back to us, recouping not only the capital cost and all the future operating costs for the hotel, but making a tidy profit. The issue is that has put a lot of guests in the parks - guests won't don't spend on things with margin. And that money machine of building DVC hotels has probably reached its capacity - not because they can't build more hotels, but because they can't fit more of their desired people in the parks. So now Disney needs a third plan for growing the bottom line. Right now, that's adding things like Genie+.

https://www.economist.com/briefing/...s-100-its-business-is-on-a-rollercoaster-ride

There is this though:

Bob Iger Meets with Josh D’Amaro About Expansions at Disney Parks, Plans to Add Capacity Via New Lands & Rides Based on Most Popular Franchises

“Lastly, we have learned that when we invest in increasing capacity —the Star Wars lands were a great example of that, Pandora was a great example of that — we can grow our business. In fact, if you look at the results when we put Pandora at Animal Kingdom, from year to year they were stunning at how many more people were visiting Animal Kingdom. I mentioned earlier in the call how we’re going to bring a version of Avatar to Disneyland. We have other opportunities as well. I’ve talked to Josh D’Amaro about this very recently, like this morning, to really look at all the great franchises in the company and see where we can invest in them into the parks to increase capacity while preserving guest satisfaction.”

Bob Iger

After the last disastrous Earnings Call back in November, I really can't see him telling the Street "we're going to bring a version of Avatar to Disneyland" so affirmatively, without high certainty. That's not a D23 blue sky "what if".

 

[Brian Noble]

Bob Iger Meets with Josh D’Amaro About Expansions at Disney Parks, Plans to Add Capacity Via New Lands & Rides Based on Most Popular Franchises

And that's been the strategy for the last ten years: New Fantasyland, the Pandoraverse, Pixar/Galaxy's Edge, the France expansion, and Tron. Guardians and the Western Spine re-do are arguably in this space too--they converted under-used space into something that is more popular (hopefully for the Spine, definitely for Guardians which replaced the Universe of Boredom).

There have been plenty of infrastructure changes to support that: Expanding the bus depot at MK plus adding the second level for ferry embarkation/debarkation is one example. Expanding the parking lot and reconfiguring entrance/exit at Studios is another.

I will not be surprised to see the same thing done with Chester & Hester's with a remake/expansion to increase the "value" of that corner of Dinoland. There is still an expansion pad at MK beyond Adventureland. There are plenty of expansion pads in Epcot.

Edited to add: the reconfiguration and redevelopment of Disney Springs is probably in this spirit as well, though it doesn't necessarily help the parks.

 

[AliceIn]

I'm going to speculate a bit and say these are rarely 'something suddenly came up' situations. And I'd be surprised there are a proportionate number of individuals participating vs. something more systematic/commercial.

There are a lot of these for the 2023-24 Holiday season which does seem shady. I would bet that these were reserved on a profit basis for the owner.

 

[crisi]

And that's been the strategy for the last ten years: New Fantasyland, the Pandoraverse, Pixar/Galaxy's Edge, the France expansion, and Tron. Guardians and the Western Spine re-do are arguably in this space too--they converted under-used space into something that is more popular (hopefully for the Spine, definitely for Guardians which replaced the Universe of Boredom).

There have been plenty of infrastructure changes to support that: Expanding the bus depot at MK plus adding the second level for ferry embarkation/debarkation is one example. Expanding the parking lot and reconfiguring entrance/exit at Studios is another.

I will not be surprised to see the same thing done with Chester & Hester's with a remake/expansion to increase the "value" of that corner of Dinoland. There is still an expansion pad at MK beyond Adventureland. There are plenty of expansion pads in Epcot.

Edited to add: the reconfiguration and redevelopment of Disney Springs is probably in this spirit as well, though it doesn't necessarily help the parks.

But all of that is small incremental change to capacity in the overall scheme - it isn't the 60,000 people that the Studios or AK can hold or the 110,000 that Epcot can hold - in the 80s and 90s Disney expanded capacity of the parks by something like 250%.

 

[Brian Noble]

In the aggregate, it might be an AK. The problem with a new gate is that most US vacations are already too short for the campus, so it would primarily cannibalize what’s already there at a significant infrastructural cost.

Again not a betting man, but I’d lay odds we will never see a fifth gate in Orlando.

 

[RoseGold]

Again not a betting man, but I’d lay odds we will never see a fifth gate in Orlando.

Already are several, just not the mouse's.

And never is a long time.

 

[Brian Noble]

Yes, I am aware that there are other amusement parks in Orlando. I currently hold an annual pass to all of them not named "Disney". You know what I mean.

As to never: how about "before I shuffle off this mortal coil." (That's maybe not too much longer. I'm in my mid-50s, but a lot of those are City Miles.)

 

[crisi]

In the aggregate, it might be an AK. The problem with a new gate is that most US vacations are already too short for the campus, so it would primarily cannibalize what’s already there at a significant infrastructural cost.

Again not a betting man, but I’d lay odds we will never see a fifth gate in Orlando.

I don't think so either...and not just because of time but because there isn't a whole lot of buildable land left on that particular swamp - not enough for an entire theme park.

 

[Brian Noble]

The RCID land use plan allows for one more "major" park. All very hypothetical, and just because they think they can doesn't mean they will or even want to.

But they think they can.

 

[Sammie]

When I thought it was going to be just a one and done visit, I wanted to do it very cheap.

Disney needs to court DVC. As time goes on and I come more and more, I have been more accustomed to Disney high life, restaurants etc and want to try all the things for novelty each time I return.

The one timers might just be the PB and J crowd scrimping bc it has to be a once in a lifetime thing.

They need to court loyalty. It pays handsomely with Disney....I need to write an article.

The only courting of DVC that Disney is interested in is having DVC pay for new resorts. DVC members for the most part, (there are always exceptions) do not spend as much money in the parks as first time or repeat luxury guests booking suites not villas at deluxe resorts.

 

[DonMacGregor]

The only courting of DVC that Disney is interested in is having DVC pay for new resorts. DVC members for the most part, (there are always exceptions) do not spend as much money in the parks as first time or repeat luxury guests booking suites not villas at deluxe resorts.

Or AP holders it would seem...

Disneyland visitor spending increases despite 20% smaller crowds during holidays

 

[Sammie]

Or AP holders it would seem...

Disneyland visitor spending increases despite 20% smaller crowds during holidays

"Shifting the attendance mix at Disney’s domestic theme parks from annual passholders to daily visitors who spend more on food, souvenirs and upgrades has helped manage crowds without hurting profits."

Yeah, this does not way good for annual passholders sales opening back up.