Price increase show discussion

[grizzy77]

My wife and I are Florida natives and have been going to the parks since the late 70's. So many great memories as a kid, and then so many special moments taking our kids. We had AP's most of the past decade but took off the past two years to just try some new things (including Universal AP's which our two boys LOVED).

We were VERY EXCITED to get Silver AP's once again but were shocked when we went to buy our passes online. $2211 for our family of four. Two years ago we paid $1320 to renew said passes. (can't even imagine those paying out of state prices and airline tickets).

We're very fortunate that we can afford the new humongous price increase but just couldn't stomach it. After 40 years of great Disney vacations we just don't see the value anymore. Feel a little sad but also excited for the mountain vacation we just booked. A $900 increase in two years is ridiculous in our opinion.

My Brother has AP's and he's really reconsidering whether they are going to renew next year. Our parents and my In-Laws won't be getting passes either.

 

[SorcererHeidi]

Per the recent discussion here about parks/safety, I had a chuckle when I just got this email: (This is about Action Park, in New Jersey)

And the title, "Class Action Park", made me think of you, @jcb - but in a GOOD way, I promise! Since you're always explaining "legalese stuff" to all of us!


During its 1980s heyday, Action Park in Vernon was known as the world’s most dangerous amusement park. From Director/Producer Chris Charles Scott and Seth Porges. Original musical score by The Holladay Brothers Video Credit: Class Action Park
A pair of filmmakers are producing a documentary about Action Park, the Sussex County amusement park that was legendary in North Jersey and the surrounding area for the injuries caused by its flat-out dangerous rides like the Alpine Slide and the Cannonball Loop.
"During its 1980s and 1990s heyday, New Jersey’s Action Park earned a reputation as the most insane — and possibly the most dangerous — amusement park that ever existed," filmmakers Chris Charles Scott and Seth Borges wrote about their upcoming feature-length film .
"Class Action Park" -- a joking reference to the lawsuits purportedly filed by injured park-goers -- will consist of interviews, previously un-publicized material and vintage footage in delving into the history of the park, which was closed in 1996 after about 20 years.
The two previously released a short documentary on the park.
Its attractions were meant to give the park-goer more control over the experience, but that also came at the expense of safety: at the Wave Pool, lifeguards were rescuing up to 30 people a day during peak periods. The Alpine Slide alone was responsible for at least 40 serious injuries, according to state records. A total of six people died at the park, including three who drowned in the Wave Pool.

The old Action Park site in Vernon is now home to Mountain Creek Waterpark, which opened in 2014 and meets modern safety standards.
The filmmakers have not given a precise release date but said the film is "coming soon."

 

[mcd2745]

Per the recent discussion here about parks/safety, I had a chuckle when I just got this email: (This is about Action Park, in New Jersey)

And the title, "Class Action Park", made me think of you, @jcb - but in a GOOD way, I promise! Since you're always explaining "legalese stuff" to all of us!


During its 1980s heyday, Action Park in Vernon was known as the world’s most dangerous amusement park. From Director/Producer Chris Charles Scott and Seth Porges. Original musical score by The Holladay Brothers Video Credit: Class Action Park
A pair of filmmakers are producing a documentary about Action Park, the Sussex County amusement park that was legendary in North Jersey and the surrounding area for the injuries caused by its flat-out dangerous rides like the Alpine Slide and the Cannonball Loop.
"During its 1980s and 1990s heyday, New Jersey’s Action Park earned a reputation as the most insane — and possibly the most dangerous — amusement park that ever existed," filmmakers Chris Charles Scott and Seth Borges wrote about their upcoming feature-length film .
"Class Action Park" -- a joking reference to the lawsuits purportedly filed by injured park-goers -- will consist of interviews, previously un-publicized material and vintage footage in delving into the history of the park, which was closed in 1996 after about 20 years.
The two previously released a short documentary on the park.
Its attractions were meant to give the park-goer more control over the experience, but that also came at the expense of safety: at the Wave Pool, lifeguards were rescuing up to 30 people a day during peak periods. The Alpine Slide alone was responsible for at least 40 serious injuries, according to state records. A total of six people died at the park, including three who drowned in the Wave Pool.

The old Action Park site in Vernon is now home to Mountain Creek Waterpark, which opened in 2014 and meets modern safety standards.
The filmmakers have not given a precise release date but said the film is "coming soon."

Ha! One of the other nicknames besides "Class Action Park" was "Traction Park". I've been meaning to see the Johnny Knoxville film that came out last year that was based on/inspired by Action Park. Supposedly, the guy who owned it back in the day and who Knoxville's character was based on was quite the character himself. Most people who have been there - and who didn't end up leaving in an ambulance - have very fond memories of the place. I personally went probably 10-12 times and had a blast each and every one of them.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

I can’t see Disney charging for DME. I think it would open a can of worms for so many families.

They don’t want to make renting a car look more attractive. They don’t want us to do that math and figuring out because DME costs X a car is now X amount cheaper. Suddenly that family is stopping for groceries on the way in, they’ve got the car anyways. Then they decide to save a few bucks eating offsite for some meals to take advantage of renting the car. After their meal they hit up the outlets for shopping instead of Disney springs and other in park merch, why not right? And hey, they’ve got a car this trip, why not finally see what else the Orlando area has to offer? Maybe a visit to another park?

I think it goes hand in hand with why they don’t care people are upset about parking rates. I bet the number of people actually canceling stays because of it or choosing offsite is tiny. Maybe people are choosing not rent the car (win for Disney) or most likely IMO people are paying anyways because they still want to stay there (another win for Disney).

Charging for parking and not charging for DME both incentivize the behaviour Disney likes, people trapping themselves on property or handing over more money.

 

[hertamaniac]

For comparison, Universal's version of DME, SuperStar Shuttle, charges $39 p.p. adult round trip from MCO. They also want to keep guests in their bubble, but you are paying for the convenience. Clearly, the volume is not close to that of WDW. I definitely see their service expanding once the onsite hotel opens at their new park.

 

[DisneyandBeerLover]

We're kind of in the position that we're trying to binge the next two years because at this rate we'll be priced out soon. Luckily, we haven't been yet but it's becoming a lot harder to go. So we're planning on getting an AP starting in December 2019 and going at least four times, and seeing what happens after that in whether we can get another. I would like to run Dopey in 2021 but I wouldn't be surprised if it costs $700-800 just to participate. So idk... we're still in for now but we're not expecting it to be reasonable much longer. It's too bad though because DLR is closer and cheaper for us but we love WDW so much more.

 

[GreatLakes]

The prices will not go up forever. We are due for a recession. Actually long overdue. When one happens it will cause a rollback of some of these increases as they will need to incentivize people to travel. Disney is like a case study in the business cycle.

 

[revdon64]

My wife and I are a little disappointed that they took half of Wilderness Lodge and made it into DVC. They look beautiful, But it was and is our favorite hotel. Unfortunately with making the hotel half the size it once was, and the price on the hotel side has gone up, we have had to try and find a new Disney home. We enjoy our 10-14 day trips each year, and some years we throw in a long weekend between our yearly trips. So the way we travel I would say the price increases have only changed where we stay more than any other aspect of our vacations. I would rather stay somewhere less expensive in order to keep our long trips vs staying at a pricier hotel for less time.

You're gonna have to change your screen name.

 

[FancyNancy]

I can’t see Disney charging for DME. I think it would open a can of worms for so many families.

They don’t want to make renting a car look more attractive. They don’t want us to do that math and figuring out because DME costs X a car is now X amount cheaper. Suddenly that family is stopping for groceries on the way in, they’ve got the car anyways. Then they decide to save a few bucks eating offsite for some meals to take advantage of renting the car. After their meal they hit up the outlets for shopping instead of Disney springs and other in park merch, why not right? And hey, they’ve got a car this trip, why not finally see what else the Orlando area has to offer? Maybe a visit to another park?

I think it goes hand in hand with why they don’t care people are upset about parking rates. I bet the number of people actually canceling stays because of it or choosing offsite is tiny. Maybe people are choosing not rent the car (win for Disney) or most likely IMO people are paying anyways because they still want to stay there (another win for Disney).

Charging for parking and not charging for DME both incentivize the behaviour Disney likes, people trapping themselves on property or handing over more money.

Being in the marketing field I can tell you that everyone who rides the DME is paying. This is what we call a silent charge. Massive increases in resort pricing, ticket pricing etc. helps pay for DME. Keeping DME "Free" looks attractive for all of the reasons that you listed above. However, DME drivers need to be paid. No matter how little they make this is not a volunteer position so trust me on this one.....we are paying.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

Being in the marketing field I can tell you that everyone who rides the DME is paying. This is what we call a silent charge. Massive increases in resort pricing, ticket pricing etc. helps pay for DME. Keeping DME "Free" looks attractive for all of the reasons that you listed above. However, DME drivers need to be paid. No matter how little they make this is not a volunteer position so trust me on this one.....we are paying.

I thought that was obvious, and that the discussion was surrounding an additional charge vs bundling it into the price. Who thinks Disney is just eating the cost? Nothing is free at WDW. Everything from DME down to the stickers handed out to little kids are all accounted for somewhere and contribute to the prices we pay.

I don’t think they’ll ever have a separate charge for DME, as it doesn’t incentivize what they want, people on Disney property for every second of their vacation.

 

[PamNC]

Ticket prices haven't kept me out of the parks. Crowds, weather and the lack of late night hours took care of that. They have priced me out of the hotels. I can find better accomodations for far less off-site.

Sadly, I feel the same. For this year's trip I stayed at Best Western @ Disney Springs. Honestly, it was much nicer than the rooms at All Star and I paid $69 a night through priceline. I can't justify a $139+ price tag on all stars or even POP. In the past, I've always stayed moderate or deluxe for the most part. Just can't justify it. In the past I would always say "I'll never stay offsite." Never say never. The ticket prices are getting ridiculous as well but that won't stop me. What might stop me from going as often.... refer to what Pete said on the show this week. The big-wigs aren't getting it... cutting the live entertainment, taking boxed photos vs a cast member, just cutting the magic and the service out of Disney. I'm a bit upset about where it's headed. And Galaxy's Edge - I totally agree and suspected it wouldn't be the success they imagined. No, I haven't been to Galaxy's Edge yet and I'm sure it's amazing but it is designed for a specific audience and to me the cast members being that into character would annoy the crap out of me. Not to mention there's one attraction right now and a chance to purchase expensive drinks and buy overdone flash lights (aka light sabers). I don't get it.... don't feel it. Don't care. I miss the old school imagineering and the original values and Disney brand that Walt himself built from the ground up. I don't think he would approve of where the parks are heading and I don't think he would like how a lot of folks are being priced out. Remember: "he wanted to build a place where parents and children could have fun together" - not just rich parents and children. RANT OVER

 

[PamNC]

The prices will not go up forever. We are due for a recession. Actually long overdue. When one happens it will cause a rollback of some of these increases as they will need to incentivize people to travel. Disney is like a case study in the business cycle.

Do you really think the prices will roll back - or will there just be more promotional offers?

 

[PamNC]

As I haven't been in 7 years come this November, I guess that speaks for where I HAVE been, not just AM. It was a sad combination of the increasing prices on everything, the increasing crowds, increasing rudeness of the people in those crowds, increasingly having to rush, and push/be pushed just to get anywhere, increasing lack of care about show and guest experience that I felt, my decreasing enjoyment and feeling of being in "my happy place", and not feeling the peace and magic as much anymore that did it for me. Going to the parks started to fee like I was going to do battle, instead of going to enjoy myself, relax, and be happy and at peace, at least for me. And it cost more and more to do anything, and I had to plan and think more and more, and constantly change plans, and rethink things, and be "on point" all the time - especially because I was usually with others, who looked to me as their "Disney Guru" (a name they gave me), and counted on me to always be in the know, and "save the day" when plans had to change and adapt. Even though I'd always enjoyed the planning, and it was part of the whole experience for me, it started to feel like stress, and work, and it fatigued the heck out of me, both mentally and physically.

Still very sad about it, and I have TONS of memories. It is bittersweet for me having those memories, and knowing that times I had no longer exist, at least not for me. But I did have plenty of them - pretty much went annually (sometimes blessed to go twice in a year!) from '93 - '12.

Please - no flames - these are simply MY thoughts and feelings about MY experiences and thoughts. If anybody else enjoyed, and still enjoys, their visits - I am MORE than happy for you!!

I feel you - believe me. No flames here. This year is the first year I stayed "off-site" - I stayed at Best Western Disney Springs so kinda' on-site. Nonetheless, I've loved Disney my whole life and always stayed on site. I can't justify it. And, I'm getting to the point you are...quickly. It doesn't feel as "magical" to me. the guests... yes ... definitely noticed a lot of unhappy and even rude people during my last trip. A man actually got in my face because I was walking too slow and weaving. I think people are stressed to the max and spending so much money they feel entitled and don't care who they run over or irritate for that entitlement. I had a blast on the trip this year and I think that's due in part to the fact that I went for the 20 years of Dreams Celebration. Taking away live entertainment like the band in Africa (my favorite ...always look forward to this) and cutting down live entertainment in Epcot but doing a constant "festival" of something that all seem the same. I feel like they must make so much money off of alcohol they just keep "festivaling." Which is fine, but c'mon now. cutting the cast members like they are... they are cutting the magic. I'm an ex-cast member...worked in marketing. during the training at Disney University we were told over and over that WE were the reason for the magic. WE, the cast members. I don't think current execs understand this at all. they are working to make an AI carnival out of my happy place. :-(

 

[disneysteve]

Do you really think the prices will roll back - or will there just be more promotional offers?

Yes, this. They won't actually lower prices. They'll just offer more deals and discounts and packages and specials. It's happened before; it will happen again,.

 

[Brianstl]

Yes, this. They won't actually lower prices. They'll just offer more deals and discounts and packages and specials. It's happened before; it will happen again,.

I can't remember Disney ever rolling back the actual list price.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

I can't remember Disney ever rolling back the actual list price.

Yeah.

Did base ticket price maybe come down when they changed to magic your way tickets because you were now paying for the components separately? That’s probably the closest example we could find. Not exactly a price decrease.

 

[disneysteve]

Yeah.

Did base ticket price maybe come down when they changed to magic your way tickets because you were now paying for the components separately? That’s probably the closest example we could find. Not exactly a price decrease.

Exactly. And actually, when they changed to date-yielded pricing recently, I think the lowest possible ticket price actually dropped from what the flat rate was previously. So they have decreased certain prices in the realm of an overall restructuring of the pricing system, but I don't think they've ever just said, "Oh, that $125 ticket will now be $110".

Still, there are so many ways for them to give a de facto price cut without actually changing the list price or tickets or rooms or food.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

Exactly. And actually, when they changed to date-yielded pricing recently, I think the lowest possible ticket price actually dropped from what the flat rate was previously. So they have decreased certain prices in the realm of an overall restructuring of the pricing system, but I don't think they've ever just said, "Oh, that $125 ticket will now be $110".

Still, there are so many ways for them to give a de facto price cut without actually changing the list price or tickets or rooms or food.

I wouldn’t complain if they brought back the buy 4 get 3 deals, or the 40% off rooms! And I vaguely remember Canadian at par deals in the 90s. Maybe they can let us stack those

 

[GreatLakes]

Do you really think the prices will roll back - or will there just be more promotional offers?

Anything that is yielded will likely reprice the baseline but other things that are hard priced will likely by done via promotions.

Some of the new charges, like parking, might also be taken away but not overtly. They will become "included as part of this promotion". That way when the economy recovers again it isn't lowered prices that get raised back up, they just stop the promotions.

The end results though will be that it is cheaper to visit WDW again.

 

[bigOlkid]

DIdn't notice this thread before I posted this elsewhere:

Well, I uttered the phrase I never thought I would in reference to Disney: "It's not worth it." Let me say at the outset, I'm not a troll or professional ranter, My family (Wife and 3 kids ,15,18,22) LOVE Walt Disney World. My first trip was at the age of two a couple of months after WDW opened, with multiple trips in the ensuing years, Including our honeymoon right up to to our trip this past march. I won't waste a lot of time trying to build up my Main Street Cred, lets just say WDW has been our go to place forever, but, especially in the last several years, I have arrived at the philosophy that the magic is still there, you just have to squint and hold your head right to see it. Well, sadly that philosophy has begun to change. WE are by no means a affluent bunch. WDW is pretty much the only vacation we take. We scrimp and save, sometimes use tax refunds, whatever it takes to book a trip. We stay at Port Orleans Riverside because it is generally the cheapest hotel for our party size. We have borne witness to expected price increases over time, and blindly skipped through the more recent "nickel and diming" because, "C'mon it's Disney!". No more free parking at the hotel, tiered dining plan, tiered tickets, oversold holiday parties, etc. We continued to vacation here because it was worth it TO US. This brings me to my recent epiphany, My parents winter in Florida and we sometimes visit them during the winter school break. We are varying degrees of Star Wars fans, with me and my middle child being the biggest SW geeks, so after learning the opening date for rise of the resistance would coincide with the time we might be visiting my parents, I decided we'd swing over to the studios one day and check out the full galaxy's edge experience ( 2 rides and places to spend money). Well, thanks to the new variable ticket prices based on when you go, the grand total for 5 of us was close to $1000 incl tax. That's when I hit "the wall".This was just to walk through the gates of one park. There was still food (this kind of expenditure would rule out souvenirs). I did some quick comparisons. For around $2200 more, this same party of five could stay on site at universal 2 nights during the same week (new years) with a 2 day, 3 park, park to park ticket and early access to the Wizarding World of Harry Potter included. My Oldest is a huge Harry Potter Fan and, Universal, who we once never gave a second thought to, has moved steadily onto our radar as a destination, and is now a better comparative value TO US. The value gap between the two has shrunk to the point that we, a "Disney Family" are no longer willing to pay the "magic tax" because, quite frankly, no matter how hard I squint, I just can't see it any more. My wife and I were at the 25th anniversary, I had hoped to be at the 50th. Who knows.