Pop Century

[YoHo]

No fair using Favorite Character from Favorite Movie to entice me to Dark side.
DOH!


I'm on the gcurling+YoHo=0 side for what its worth.


I can really feel the love in this thread.

I think we're more aware of it, because of the disasterous results a couple month's ago.

Unfortunatly, Now that I'm on the Left coast I'll have to raise a glass of fine california vintage with AV and Sara at Hook's Wine Cellar.

(Although a Chicago meet some time when I'm back home (yes it is still home) is not out of the question. )

 

[DC7800]

Originally posted by Another Voice
The hotels on property are developed by the Disney Development Company, not WDI (airlarry, please choose your croissant). DDC (by whatever name it goes by this week) is really nothing but ?supervision? for the project ?the majority of design, construction and interior work is created by outside companies. I do not know who is directly responsible for the ?All Star? and ?Pop Century? designs.

The All-Star Resorts were designed by the architectural team of Bernardo Fort-Brescia and Laurinda Hope Spear-Arquitectonica. The design of the All-Stars, along with selected other notable WDW developments, was displayed in a little book called "Walt Disney World Architecture" I picked up a few trips ago (maybe 2000). I was once told they also designed the Disney Cruise Line Terminal. I don't know if they are also responsible for Pop Century, but apparently they are a well respected, talented design team.

But, whose idea were the oversize "icons" and other "decorations" (or theming, depending on your viewpoint) instead of an "immersive" experience? This organization, or DDC's?

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

… Blame Ei$ner!!!

The All-Star Resorts were designed by the architectural team of Bernardo Fort-Brescia and Laurinda Hope Spear-Arquitectonica.

Thanks! Now I know who not to call when I take over the top mouse spot!!

But, whose idea were the oversize "icons" and other "decorations" (or theming, depending on your viewpoint) instead of an "immersive" experience? This organization, or DDC's?

When I was in WDW over the summer, I approached many CMs about that stupid hat and giant hand/wand in EPCOT. More than a lot of them blamed Ei$ner for them. They said that he loved that kind of "theme". And since, ultimately, the buck stops with him, I was more than happy to accept that explanation.

So, a personal note to Ei$ner: STOP IT!!!!!

 

[YoHo]

Considering Wolfgang Puck is extremly Contemporary, I would suggest that the fact that you wondered as to his whereabouts proved that they are hitting their theme.
I think the food at the california grill (California style food is contemporary) and Concourse steakhouse etc is done with a contemporary nod. THAT'S why its contemporary.

I can understand a problem with the wings. I can even understand the notion that the hotel looks a bit outdated, but I'm not sure we're all on the same page about what "Contemporary" means. Everything about the observation deck is contemporary.

 

[Herbie]

I just dont understand why they had to put the thing beside CB. CB has such beautiful landscaping. I cant inagine walking around the lake and seeing PC in the background.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

… You really hate the Contemporary, don't you?

So put the monorail 20 feet closer and the poly and GF are Contemp

How absurd!! I may need some help pointing out the obvious to you. JJ - HELP!!!

OK. I'll try.

If you put the monorail in the lobby of either the Floridian or the Poly, you've effectively ruined whatever theme they had going. You don't make them a Contemporary!! But when you take a fairly nondescript, steel, concrete and glass structure and move a monorail though it, you've got something that closely resembles a modern day hotel, by virtue of transportation vehicles alone! Or, put another way, something 'contemporary'. That happens to be 30 years old, and yet, in the lobby at least, still smacks of that theme. Scoop. No one said it isn't showing it's age. And no one said that the theme hasn't been utterly destroyed in some places within it in recent years. Remember it used to be themed throughout, the Top-Of-The-World on floor 15, complete with modern (or contemporary if you will) entertainment.

no with the CG uniforms and menu and decor, I kept looking for Wolfgang...

Well, what's more 'modern day' than Wolfgang!?!?

such, IMHO, is not the case at the Contemp...because, if you can't see the monorail going through...what Contemporary is left to be immersed in???

I quite agree. A perfect example of their utter disregard (and/or contempt) for theme!!! You really should have seen it back in 1972!! It packed a whole bunch of WOW!!!

Lest, you think all the scoop does is think of new angles to slam the Contemp

The thought had occurred to me!!

 

[YoHo]

Don't Worry Landbaron, I'm on your side. I occasionally have problems with the contemporary, but It still is a fairly contemorary place. Correct me If I'm wrong, but the California grill was rethemed in the early ninties to keep it contemporary wasn't it?

 

[JeffJewell]

For me, here's the trick for figuring out if a resort is well-themed: No matter where you are in that resort, you know what the resort's theme is...such, IMHO, is not the case at the Contemp...because, if you can't see the monorail going through...what Contemporary is left to be immersed in???

I agree that the Contemporary's theming has not held up, but I honestly believe there was a story to the Contemporary: it was the Hotel of Tomorrowland. And I don't see any attempt at a story with the All Stars.

I'd have one fewer issue with the Values if they were "The Hotel of Agrabah" and the buildings were spackled with terra cotta and the landscaping was a 50 acre sandbox, instead of "the hotel with the Big Buzz Lightyear" with the paint and plants we got.

Call it rationalization, but it's not like someone wants to re-theme the C and I'm chaining myself to a garden wing in an attempt to preserve the past, or anything. I'm just trying to point out precisely where I think the design teams for the C and for the Values went decidedly different directions, even if, thirty years gone, the results might end up being considered similar flavors of ugly. I admit to being completely overwhelmed by the C in 1972, and having an unhealthy attachment to the place since then, but I agree that a well-done update or makeover is a desirable thing, at this point. "Re-story" the place.

Then "story" the All Stars. After that, I'll only gripe about the transportation system and the off-the-shelf rides with Value theming.

Jeff

 

[hopemax]

I wanted to back up to d-r's point for a minute

but I keep coming back to the idea that if the values were as well themed as the deluxes, why would anyone stay at the deluxes,

I don't worry about this so much by looking at the Grand Floridian, Contemporary, etc. vs the Wilderness Lodge...even though they both are deluxes.

Wilderness Lodge is an incredibly well done theme and you can get a really great view of the Magic Kingdom by booking a Woods View room which will only be $244 regular season in 2002. Read enough trip reports from the vacationers and Wilderness Lodge is considered one of the best themed resorts, and even better at Christmas.

That doesn't seem to be stopping people from spending $450 for a Lodge Tower Room at the Grand Floridian or $360 for a Tower Room at the Contemporary for the same 2002 regular season. The location, the transporation, the additional recreation options, restaurant choices and just personal tastes will provide enough reasons for someone to choose a higher priced hotel.

And if it's not, I don't see why they can't lower the deluxe prices somewhat. Are they up that high, because that's what is necessary for the hotels to be profitable, or because up until now that's the price the market has been willing to bear? If it's the latter Disney can handle a little of the "Don't whine about the price going down, it's supply and demand" that all us guests have been told whenever they raise the price.

 

[Another Voice]

My “Imagination is more important than Budget” comment means that the success of a project depends more on the creativity put into it than the raw dollars. Given the money spent on All Stars, I think more imagination would have produced better results for the even at the same budget.

The price increases at the resorts were part of the overall price surge started by Eisner. It was felt that everything at WDW was grossly undervalued and Eisner guessed, correctly, that people were willing to pay a substantial premium for The Brand.

What’s really amusing about this entire discussion is that the exact same arguments where thrown against the Caribbean Beach for being an unthemed, cheap, exploitative pile of swamp rot. Staying there on business was considered a punishment from Corporate for those unfortunate souls. How times have changed…


P.S. – YoHo, it’s NOT the “Left Coast”, it’s the “Proper Coast”. Granted you are in the unfashionably damp northern reaches, but look at it this way. Monday Night Football is timed perfectly to leave the office and meet up with the guys at the bar on the way home.

 

[hopemax]

you are in the unfashionably damp northern reaches

If that's where YoHo lives, I wonder what AV would say about where I live! YoHo is at least a day's drive closer to DL, so count your blessings YoHo!

 

[I <3 Eeyore]

Geeeeez, go off to work for a few hours and you miss all the fun around here! inkbounc

lol Jeff, thanks for the additional clarification and humorous response. I think I finally get where you're coming from and I don't disagree completely. I absolutely believe that the value resorts should be the best they can be. I'm at a disadvantage because I've never stayed in one of them so I don't have an opinion as to whether they are themed appropriately, up to Disney standard, etc. I think I'll leave that discussion to the experts. I do however, reserve the right to judge their aesthetic value (guess I'll be making a special trip to check that out next February).

I think you asked the question (several pages back) "If that's true, then what's the big deal about staying on-site? If the magic is in you to begin with, what are we paying extra for with the Disney hotels? The fact that it says "Disney" on the side?"

Nah, that's not what the big deal is. If you're trucking the kids to Disney for a family vaca and you are watching the pennies, do you really want to have to pay extra for cab fare or rent a car for the week to get back and forth to the parks from your offsite hotel? I wouldn't. I would look for a Disney resort comparable to the cost of offsite so that I could take advantage of the amenities like package delivery to my room, free bus service, trips back to the room for quiet time/naps, etc. Granted these are small things but they'd allow my family and me to have a more relaxed and pleasureable vacation and to spend more time using my park pass(which is no small cost all by itself). I'm really grateful I get to stay in resorts like OKW or BWV, but if I didn't have that option, I'd choose an onsite value resort over off site in a heartbeat, theming or no theming.

 

[d-r]

Originally posted by JeffJewell
PPS: Jiko is _definitely_ worth the trip to AKL. Perhaps my view of how far off the beaten path lies restaurant X is skewed because I often have a car. Disney transportation between resorts and to Animal Kingdom is abysmal, sez I, and because one of my own favorite aspects of WDW is the choice of fine restaurants, I find the car to be a huge time- and aggravation-saver. I don't think of AKL being much farther than Wilderness Lodge (well, at least from my usual stomping grounds of one of the Boardwalk area hotels). Sometime after December 9th, I'll let you know if Boma's breakfast is worth the hike...

Breakfast at Boma is absolutely worth the trip, even on the Disney busses. We had family staying there, and we met them by bussing from bwv to AK, then catching the AKL bus from there; the palm pilot CM had to call an AKL bus for us. Anyway, it is a very worthy successor to Bonfamille's breakfast, and really worth the trip (and Melissa and I aren't really big breakfast people).

DR

 

[JeffJewell]

it is a very worthy successor to Bonfamille's breakfast

...we chose Boma when we discovered that Spoodle's was cancelling their breakfast buffet, about the best one we'd found on-site. From what I've seen and heard so far, Boma should indeed prove worth the trip.

Jeff

 

[YoHo]

A few Comments
1: The Current Design of the Contemporary resort fit 100% perfectly with the original Design for tomorrowland. Just because Tomorrowland was the world of the future doesn't mean the word contemporary has a different meaning. Contemporary means current. The way it was supposed to fit in with tomorrowland is really irrelevnet.


Truth be told (and I've said this before) I'd like to see contemp retheemed to match the retro future of the current tomorrowland. I LOVE that theme and would love a hotel themed as such.

The United Airlines terminal at O'Hare would make a great retro-future theme if they repainted it from gunmetal gray to a nice bronze color. It would be easy to make the contemp look like that.



As to living on the Proper Coast.

you know, They have a few Palm trees up here! My goal was to move somewhere with Palm trees. That's why I spent most of my time looking in San Diego, the Bay Area and Florida. I lucked out.


Monday Night football IS on a t a good time, BUT All I get is Shawks (I'd like the shawks if that Evil B**tard Holmgren weren't in charge(hey Chicago rivalrys die hard.)) and whatever the Fox main Game is. It wasn't too bad yesterday as I got to see Greenbay Lose to Minn. Putting the Bears in First, But at this rate I'm never gonna see the bears Play again. And they're good this year. (how typical)

 

[Another Voice]

Rumors are circulating that construction of the rest of Pop Century may be flat out cancelled, perhaps to be restarted in three to five years. It also was developing a reputation as a difficult motel to get bookings for – the All Stars have a loyal customer base and the theme for PC was a difficult sale. Most of the bookings Disney had gotten was nothing but overflow from All Stars, and they were on the waiting list to change back if rooms became available (which they have in the thousands).

On other subjects – the only true palm trees on the west coast grow south of Santa Barbara. The potted variety found in shopping mall food courts, office lobbies, and trendy Portland microbreweries do not count. As for not being able to see the Bears, a team has to play at a professional level to be shown on television. Perhaps one day they will make it on ESPN2 in between cheerleading competitions and professional women’s billards.

 

[YoHo]

Hey, being 4-1 and first place in the NFC central (The NFC central is where the big boys play) is playing at the professional level.

The closest team to LA (The Chargers) has in the recent past had a cavelcade of Bears rejects at Quarterback. (although they are good this year. Go figure) We shall see If the Wine and cheese bunch from The bay can handle the monsters of the midway.

Anyway, I KNOW at least one of the Bears/Packers games will be broadcast. John Madden (Oh how I hate him) Always takes the tour bus to at LEAST one of those games.

Bears vs. Packers is the heart and soul of the NFL, even when they both suck!


As for Palm Trees. Hey, I don't know about where "real" palm trees are, All I Know is that right outside my Apartment complex is a short palm style tree. Oh, And Winchester Drive in San Jose has a large number of true palms, so Me thinks you exxagerate.

 

[airlarry!]

AV:

Do these rumors mention anything about redecorating...err...retheming the Pop Centuries?

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

As for not being able to see the Bears, a team has to play at a professional level to be shown on television

WHOA!!!! Careful there AV!!

Them's fightin' words!!

 

[All Aboard]

Rumors are circulating that construction of the rest of Pop Century may be flat out cancelled, perhaps to be restarted in three to five years.

I think the theme should be scrapped. The success of ASMo should have been continued. Perhaps there was a way to create an all-Disney movie themed resort (and still differentiate between ASMo). I'm not creative at all, so I have no clue how this would have worked. One thing I do know is that it would have been a home run with the guests. If WDW thought that there was enough demand to fill another 5760 Value rooms, why not go with a concept that was guaranteed to work?

the All Stars have a loyal customer base

Yes, otherwise known as the Society of Tasteless Misers Who Don't Know the Difference Between Theming and Decorating - of which I appear to be the President.