Paid FP options coming soon to WDW?

[Bobb_o]

No, it will have no effect on standby or would increase it at many attractions if fewer people use FPs.

I should have been clearer. FP+ increased wait times on secondary attractions when it was introduced. If FP+ are cut to 2 then it should be expected that standby wait times woud decrease on attractions that have been 3rd selections and lower.

If you can only have 2 FP+ at Animal Kingdom then I would expect to see less FP+ riders at Dinosaur. That would decrease the wait time for standby riders.

 

[crvetter]

If you can only have 2 FP+ at Animal Kingdom then I would expect to see less FP+ riders at Dinosaur. That would decrease the wait time for standby riders.

If this was true wouldn't those people chose to go somewhere? It seems you are saying people only ride the less "desirable" rides because of the additional FP+. If that is true where do you suppose the people would go with that additional time?Wouldn't they likely be joining a standby line or getting a 3rd (if Disney allows) FP+ day of? If you suppose they don't really want to ride less "desirable" rides, wouldn't that suppose that this scenario would increase the standby lines in the more "desirable" rides?

 

[The Pho]

I should have been clearer. FP+ increased wait times on secondary attractions when it was introduced. If FP+ are cut to 2 then it should be expected that standby wait times woud decrease on attractions that have been 3rd selections and lower.

If you can only have 2 FP+ at Animal Kingdom then I would expect to see less FP+ riders at Dinosaur. That would decrease the wait time for standby riders.

Fastpass+ spread the crowds around decreasing average wait times around the park, by decreasing waits for big rides and increasing waits for small rides. If people aren’t using fastpasses for small rides, the waits for big rides would increase again. You wind up with more people in standby, which will move faster physically, but you’ll spend more time in it.

 

[Bobb_o]

Let me put it this way:

There are 100 people in FP+ and 100 people in standby. the 100 people in FP+ will board before the 30th person in standby. Now there are 200 people in that line and no one in FP+, that 30th person in standby is boarding way faster than they did when there were 100 people in FP+ because they've moved up to the 30th spot in line as opposed to 130th. Now think about rider 200 they're going to be 200th no matter what, except that if the 101st FP+ returner shows up the 200th rider just became 201st.

Or think about it at rope drop, the first 100 people in standby at Slinky Dog Dash are going to board faster at open then the first 100 in standby at 11am because there's less FP+ returners at open. The less FP+ riders the quicker you will board in standby.

I hope that make sense.

 

[crvetter]

Let me put it this way:

There are 100 people in FP+ and 100 people in standby. the 100 people in FP+ will board before the 30th person in standby. Now there are 200 people in that line and no one in FP+, that 30th person in standby is boarding way faster than they did when there were 100 people in FP+ because they've moved up to the 30th spot in line as opposed to 130th. Now think about rider 200 they're going to be 200th no matter what, except that if the 101st FP+ returner shows up the 200th rider just became 201st.

Or think about it at rope drop, the first 100 people in standby at Slinky Dog Dash are going to board faster at open then the first 100 in standby at 11am because there's less FP+ returners at open. The less FP+ riders the quicker you will board in standby.

I hope that make sense.

This is only true at the opening of a ride, guaranteeing you are the first people in line. In an hours time the experience for anyone in the standby line (when the ride is with or without FP) will be identical. I showed on another thread that if you assume everyone rides the ride that rode FP that the standby times wouldn't reduce at all. However, the case when it is park opening will probably be worse because of a social driver where you have people that weren't unable to obtain FP for the ride will now RD to get short ride times thus possibly negating your benefit you described.

As for assuming everyone rides the ride could go either way more or less could ride the e-tickets because they might have less access to the lesser rides to pull them away from the e-tickets.

Edit: Link to showing FP inherently doesn't increase wait times: https://www.disboards.com/threads/o...ormation-thread.3727093/page-42#post-60385611

Though this is under an ideal scenario. So it is valid for e-tickets but not likely valid for smaller rides that perhaps more people are riding simply because they can get a FP. But that does help draw people away from the e-ticket rides. As mentioned by a PP if we consider the park as a whole FP hasn't increased wait times over all the rides.

 

[The Pho]

Let me put it this way:

There are 100 people in FP+ and 100 people in standby. the 100 people in FP+ will board before the 30th person in standby. Now there are 200 people in that line and no one in FP+, that 30th person in standby is boarding way faster than they did when there were 100 people in FP+ because they've moved up to the 30th spot in line as opposed to 131st. Now think about rider 200 they're going to be 200th no matter what, except that if the 101st FP+ returner shows up the 200th rider just became 201st.

Or think about it at rope drop, the first 100 people in standby at Slinky Dog Dash are going to board faster at open then the first 100 in standby at 11am because there's less FP+ returners at open. The less FP+ riders the quicker you will board in standby.

I hope that make sense.

But it’s only quicker if there aren’t more people in front of you as a result. Without fastpass, more use the standby line. So that guy that’s 30th in line when there are fastpasses, would not still be 30th if there are no fastpasses because more are using that line, he still gets bumped back and you’re missing that part in your numbers, and you’re also missing the increase in people that would have been occupied with their 3rd fastpass on something else. The guy that was 30, could very well be at 150 instead if there were no fastpasses, making him wait longer. The standby line moves faster but the average wait time increases because more people get in that line for the bigger rides, and the smaller rides get overlooked instead of running at capacity all the time.

So yes, removal of the 3rd fastpass would benefit wait times for some of the lesser choice rides, but the more popular ones would see an increase because the crowds wouldn’t spread as well.

Increasing line speed is different than decreasing wait time.

 

[scrappinginontario]

I disagree - I'm a second time visitor. My first trip ever was December 2018, and we are booked for this September. Any guest could learn the basics of staying onsite vs offsite, booking windows, and what rides/ADRs to book first in 5 minutes of reading any blog or Facebook post. I knew before I paid my initial $200 deposit we needed a longer trip than 4 days (I don't know anyone who takes that short of a trip to WDW but we live pretty far away). If someone is willing to throw thousands of dollars towards a trip and not do the most basic research, that's on them, not Disney.

I agree with the poster you replied to, guests staying longer should be rewarded for doing so. There should be benefits to staying onsite and for a longer time, and it does not bother me that someone staying 14 days gets a shot at FP+ before me - they earned it!

Whatever comes of this rumor of paid FP, I will be very annoyed if someone staying 2 nights offsite gets better FP than me staying 8 nights onsite. That just wouldn't make sense for Disney to do as a company, because I for sure would cut down my trip time and stay offsite if I have the same chances as someone paying to stay at a Deluxe resort for twice as long as me onsite.

A few people have mentioned CL FP+ books at 90 days, Onsite gets 75 days, Good Neighbors get 60 days, and Offsite gets 30 days...that sounds good to me.

Sometimes a longer trip in not an option. Not everyone has enough $$ to visit Disney. I just booked a trip for friend's yesterday who are going for 4 days, 2 days in the parks and flying from Canada and I was thrilled to help them book this trip!! They have saved for years to offer this trip to their daughter as a Grade 8 graduation gift!

It's best not to judge how someone else spends their money because we don't know their life circumstances.

Why wouldn't you reward people who are staying longer and therefore spending more money on your product? That seems only fair.

Some people prefer to visit Disney in shorter chunks of time. Personally, we choose to visit for 9 days once a year but someone else who may choose 3, 3 night trips should not be penalized. Again, each person vacations in a way that works best for them, their family and their job.

 

[Cramden]

Some people prefer to visit Disney in shorter chunks of time. Personally, we choose to visit for 9 days once a year but someone else who may choose 3, 3 night trips should not be penalized. Again, each person vacations in a way that works best for them, their family and their job.

Exactly. We live in Massachusetts but have a home in Clearwater. We bought Resident Passes and took 5 trips to Disney last year ranging from 2-4 nights each trip. We stayed at the Beach Club twice, Wilderness Lodge, Grand Floridian and POFQ, did the DxDP on most of those trips and several upcharge events including 3 Dessert Parties, Illuminations Dinner, Magic Kingdom After Hours and MNSSHP. Our trips may be shorter per stay but I bet we're spending at least as much as most who stay for 10-14 days once a year.

 

[evlaina]

Sometimes a longer trip in not an option. Not everyone has enough $$ to visit Disney. I just booked a trip for friend's yesterday who are going for 4 days, 2 days in the parks and flying from Canada and I was thrilled to help them book this trip!! They have saved for years to offer this trip to their daughter as a Grade 8 graduation gift!

It's best not to judge how someone else spends their money because we don't know their life circumstances.

Some people prefer to visit Disney in shorter chunks of time. Personally, we choose to visit for 9 days once a year but someone else who may choose 3, 3 night trips should not be penalized. Again, each person vacations in a way that works best for them, their family and their job.

Who is judging how someone spends their money? I didn't say "Boy only cheapskates spend 4 days at WDW!" I said that I personally do not know anyone who takes a 4-day trip, because I don't. I also said that after doing the most basic research possible into WDW I knew that in order to get the rides and ADRs my family wanted the most we would need to stay longer than 4 days...because after my 5 minutes of research I knew someone arriving before me and staying a long time had first dibs.

People choosing a 3 night trip are not being penalized, they are just not as rewarded as a guest staying 2 weeks.

 

[Grumpy6264]

Why wouldn't you reward people who are staying longer and therefore spending more money on your product? That seems only fair.

People who stay longer get a break on ticket prices the more days they have on their ticket.

The problem is overlapping stays make getting fast passes at the beginning of a trip much more difficult. I could be staying 14 days, but stays that start before mine and overlap the first few days of my trip, almost guarantee that I will not get to reserve prime attractions for those first few days.

If you can only make reservations for 1 day at a time, everyone with trips for that day have an equal chance to secure more desirable fast passes. This doesn't guarantee that everyone will get everything that they want, but it will make it more equitable. The way it is right now, the first 3 or 4 days are virtually impossible to get FOP or SDD (among others).

 

[scrappinginontario]

People who stay longer get a break on ticket prices the more days they have on their ticket.

The problem is overlapping stays make getting fast passes at the beginning of a trip much more difficult. I could be staying 14 days, but stays that start before mine and overlap the first few days of my trip, almost guarantee that I will not get to reserve prime attractions for those first few days.

If you can only make reservations for 1 day at a time, everyone with trips for that day have an equal chance to secure more desirable fast passes. This doesn't guarantee that everyone will get everything that they want, but it will make it more equitable. The way it is right now, the first 3 or 4 days are virtually impossible to get FOP or SDD (among others).

I would encourage people to keep trying. I recently booked FPs for 2 different families, both only going to the parks for 3 or 4 days. I was able to secure every ride they wanted (including FoP, SDD, SDMT and more) for both families and had many choices in times for both. It doesn't always work out but I'm finding FoP easier to get now then I did 18 months ago.

 

[Bobb_o]

I don't want to quote @The Pho and @crvetter at the same time because it'll make a big post.

I'm not doing a good job explaining what I'm trying to say. I'm looking at it from the standby rider's perspective in the current system vs if there were no FP+, not from an average rider perspective. I'm also using the parameter that the same amount of people are riding the attraction. So in my original example I messed up, the 30th standby rider should be the 60th or so in a no FP+ scenario. He's waiting less time in the new system than he is in the current system. That's all I'm trying to say.

 

[crvetter]

I don't want to quote @The Pho and @crvetter at the same time because it'll make a big post.

I'm not doing a good job explaining what I'm trying to say. I'm looking at it from the standby rider's perspective in the current system vs if there were no FP+, not from an average rider perspective. I'm also using the parameter that the same amount of people are riding the attraction. So in my original example I messed up, the 30th standby rider should be the 60th or so in a no FP+ scenario. He's waiting less time in the new system than he is in the current system. That's all I'm trying to say.

My post I referenced is actually to show from the standby rider's perspective, for an individual ride, they will wait exactly the same amount of time, if the bold part of your post is true. Copying from my other post, https://www.disboards.com/threads/o...ormation-thread.3727093/page-42#post-60385611, (no matter the capacity or % of riders assigned to standby you get the fact that the wait time will be the same not an average view).

While it slows the standby line it hasn’t increased wait times in the standby line by its very nature. Yes it increases the capacity of the standby line but by removing the capacity of the of the FastPass. If those people that were in FastPass move to standby the standby wait time should be the same as shown below:

So consider this ride that has a 100 rider per hour capacity.

Under FastPass
1) 90 people are assigned to the FastPass line for each hour
2) There is X people in standby line with an X/10 hour wait.

Remove FastPass
1) Now you have to add 90*X/10 people to the standby line
2) Resulting in X+90*X/10 people in the standby line which simplified to 10*X people in the line.
3) Resulting in the wait time of 10*X/100, which simplified to X/10 same as without FastPass

So under the assumption everyone in the FastPass rides the ride then the wait time won’t drop.
​

The part in bold red is predicate on the very fact the person standing in Standby gets in the line before those that would have waiting in FP+. What if the FP+ inclined people get in the standby first, which they could? While I agree someone could join the line at an opportune time that doesn't show it is because of the lack of FP+ that did this. It is simply saying they joined when the line had less of a wait. They can do this now with FP+ existing, such as rope drop or park closing. Also Disney doesn't drain an entire FP line before allowing those in the standby line to enter. They keep a ratio of what many on this board to believe is 90% FP and 10% standby (only when there is people waiting in the FP line, if no one is in FP the standby line gets full capacity, which happens on the smaller rides).

 

[TXAKDisneyFan]

People who stay longer get a break on ticket prices the more days they have on their ticket.

The problem is overlapping stays make getting fast passes at the beginning of a trip much more difficult. I could be staying 14 days, but stays that start before mine and overlap the first few days of my trip, almost guarantee that I will not get to reserve prime attractions for those first few days.

If you can only make reservations for 1 day at a time, everyone with trips for that day have an equal chance to secure more desirable fast passes. This doesn't guarantee that everyone will get everything that they want, but it will make it more equitable. The way it is right now, the first 3 or 4 days are virtually impossible to get FOP or SDD (among others).

But most people don't want to have to get up/be at a computer at 7am EST (or simply aren't available) every single day for 5, 6, 7, ...14+ days in a row. How many people on these boards complain about how complicated WDW planning is? Or comment about how complicated other people think WDW planning is? I'm also sure paid WDW planners wouldn't appreciate only being able to book FP+ for clients one day at a time. Allowing onsite guests to make ADRs and FP+ for multiple days at once simplifies the planning process.

 

[saskdw]

People who stay longer get a break on ticket prices the more days they have on their ticket.

The problem is overlapping stays make getting fast passes at the beginning of a trip much more difficult. I could be staying 14 days, but stays that start before mine and overlap the first few days of my trip, almost guarantee that I will not get to reserve prime attractions for those first few days.

If you can only make reservations for 1 day at a time, everyone with trips for that day have an equal chance to secure more desirable fast passes. This doesn't guarantee that everyone will get everything that they want, but it will make it more equitable. The way it is right now, the first 3 or 4 days are virtually impossible to get FOP or SDD (among others).

They are running a business. Who says it needs to be fair?

Your way wouldn't be fair to the people that aren't able to get up at 4am everyday to make FP reservations. Obviously Disney is going to cater to people spending more money. The people staying a full 2 weeks onsite are going to spend a lot of money in onsite restaurants and shops. We rarely leave Disney property when staying there. Yes, they are going to give those people extra perks and opportunities. Cheaper per day tickets on its own is no even close to being a big enough perk.

I can't afford a Ferrari does that mean no one should have one?

 

[saskdw]

I would encourage people to keep trying. I recently booked FPs for 2 different families, both only going to the parks for 3 or 4 days. I was able to secure every ride they wanted (including FoP, SDD, SDMT and more) for both families and had many choices in times for both. It doesn't always work out but I'm finding FoP easier to get now then I did 18 months ago.

I've actually never had a problem getting the FP we want on day one of out trip, but we haven't been since Dec 2016 so I'm just going along with everyone's complaints about FoP and SDD FP.

 

[SaintsManiac]

Who is judging how someone spends their money? I didn't say "Boy only cheapskates spend 4 days at WDW!" I said that I personally do not know anyone who takes a 4-day trip, because I don't. I also said that after doing the most basic research possible into WDW I knew that in order to get the rides and ADRs my family wanted the most we would need to stay longer than 4 days...because after my 5 minutes of research I knew someone arriving before me and staying a long time had first dibs.

People choosing a 3 night trip are not being penalized, they are just not as rewarded as a guest staying 2 weeks.

I prefer 4-5 day trips. I have APs. You don't need longer stays to get ADRs or even FPs.

 

[Grumpy6264]

They are running a business. Who says it needs to be fair?

Your way wouldn't be fair to the people that aren't able to get up at 4am everyday to make FP reservations. Obviously Disney is going to cater to people spending more money. The people staying a full 2 weeks onsite are going to spend a lot of money in onsite restaurants and shops. We rarely leave Disney property when staying there. Yes, they are going to give those people extra perks and opportunities. Cheaper per day tickets on its own is no even close to being a big enough perk.

I can't afford a Ferrari does that mean no one should have one?

I agree with you about "They are running a business". The fact is, no matter what they do, someone is going to be unhappy.

 

[Sarah1024]

People who stay longer get a break on ticket prices the more days they have on their ticket.

The problem is overlapping stays make getting fast passes at the beginning of a trip much more difficult. I could be staying 14 days, but stays that start before mine and overlap the first few days of my trip, almost guarantee that I will not get to reserve prime attractions for those first few days.

If you can only make reservations for 1 day at a time, everyone with trips for that day have an equal chance to secure more desirable fast passes. This doesn't guarantee that everyone will get everything that they want, but it will make it more equitable. The way it is right now, the first 3 or 4 days are virtually impossible to get FOP or SDD (among others).

Why does Disney have to be "fair" to everyone? Life isn't fair. Sorry. If you pay more to stay on Disney property longer per stay, you should reap the benefit of that. Probably an unpopular opinion.

 

[evlaina]

But most people don't want to have to get up/be at a computer at 7am EST (or simply aren't available) every single day for 5, 6, 7, ...14+ days in a row. How many people on these boards complain about how complicated WDW planning is? Or comment about how complicated other people think WDW planning is? I'm also sure paid WDW planners wouldn't appreciate only being able to book FP+ for clients one day at a time. Allowing onsite guests to make ADRs and FP+ for multiple days at once simplifies the planning process.

Exactly. Day by day FP+ booking sounds terrible - who has the time to do that? I have to be at work at 7am, so I take my ADR and FP+ days off just to make sure I can do them.