Out Of State APs Continue To Take A Beating

[MATTERHORN]

WHAT ?! You don't want to race through New York with Jimmy Fallon every day of your trip?

Yeah, that would be a hard NO! LOL

It's not that I hate on them and there are some really cool things at Universal, but it's apples and oranges. I could never fill a whole week there!

 

[MATTERHORN]

It seems like every time Disney does something dumb, a whole bunch of people talk about Universal instead, and I just don't get it. I almost wonder if it's astroturfing (which I would genuinely respect if that was Universal's PR move).

Apart from Jurassic Park and Harry Potter - everything else is just old or blah.

Simpsons is a BTTF overlay. Minions is a Hanna Barbera overlay - hey, look, the seats move now. (Honestly, the pre-show with the 3D glasses was my favorite part of the ride, and I loved that.) Men in Black is better than Buzz, but that's not saying much. Transformers is okay, but insanely loud. Fallon and Fast & Furious are all-time awful, which is even worse because they're new. Mummy is in too small of a building. Rip Ride Rockit has to be past its End of Life by now. (That happens to steel coasters - Hulk was fully rebuilt after reaching its EOL.) USP is essentially the HHN park, the same way Epcot became the festival park. Spiderman is okay, but that Marvel section is embarrassing - even more so when you realize it only exists because it stops WDW from using the characters. Most generic parks have a water ride like Popeye, and I don't ride Dudley Do Right because I don't wanna get that unrelentingly soaked (or spend money on the blasted dryer). And I hate CityWalk - it's awfully laid out (the upper section feels almost like a back alley) and I can't stand having to walk through it to get to the parks.

At this point, I can buy a one-day ticket to IOA (and maybe one night at HHN), do everything I want to do, and not go again for months or a year. (I would totally do HHN this year if not for COVID.)

I think some of the talk is just the "stigginit to Disney" factor. But those folks seem to miss the underlying truth - I can be pissed at Disney and still think WDW is a better park experience. (Most of my Orlando local friends freely admit that while they have APs for Uni and Sea World and enjoy both resorts a lot, they would be WDW APs if it weren't so insanely expensive.)

When I've hinted at stuff like this on other threads - the response is usually that WDW is out-of-date, too. I don't entirely disagree. But I don't mind a lot of WDW's out-of-date stuff (I would take MuppetVision over Minions, Shrek, or Fallon every day of the week and twice on Sunday), and the top-line stuff is unspeakably great.

I seriously hope that Epic Universe is brilliantly awesome, because I desperately want Disney to feel threatened enough to spend money on upgrading the parks. (Especially the Magic Kingdom, which is embarrassingly, horribly out of date - the fact that a 46-year-old steel coaster, long past its EOL, would even be considered for a paid FP - even just temporarily - is ludicrous.)

/end rant
//with apologies
///been constantly thinking this for weeks

I could not agree more with every single thing you said. It's no contest!

 

[notatallmagic]

Our out of state passes expire end of March 2022.

We already have a split stay booked for late February/early March 2022 that miraculously corresponds with a college Spring Break and a quiet high school week between 3 sports. I took it as a sign. We will blunder around and try to figure out the new system...sigh. We will not be renewing our passes when they expire.

We likely WON'T be booking any long Disney weekends with $29 RT airfare between now and expiration like we used to, because the "new" processes just seem exhausting. I used those little trips as an "escape" FROM stress, and Disney now seems like too much work and drama. Add learning the "new" DAS rules, and their yet to be announced "pre visit video" conferencing which would kill any ability to plan a surprise visit (my 18 year old has the disability) for kids...so, just one more Disney trip in 2022; I had originally budgeted for at least three.

So, we ARE looking at a week driving trip over the summer 2022 instead; and a To Be Determined Orlando area week.

For those familiar with Universal - is it true that a week is TOO long? One of the challenges I've always had with Disney for 7-9 days, is that we are in the parks every day - sometimes rope drop to Fireworks - and we come home exhausted. So, how many days of a Saturday to Saturday trip to Universal (thinking Portofino?) are park days? What do you do on the other days if you don't have a car (I used to LOVE Magic Transport - I don't like driving/navigating on vacation if I don't have to). Or would you do a 5 day trip? Rent a car and go to Cocoa Beach? Disney Springs?

Thanks for an advice/tips/input!

 

[tony67]

Our out of state passes expire end of March 2022.

We already have a split stay booked for late February/early March 2022 that miraculously corresponds with a college Spring Break and a quiet high school week between 3 sports. I took it as a sign. We will blunder around and try to figure out the new system...sigh. We will not be renewing our passes when they expire.

We likely WON'T be booking any long Disney weekends with $29 RT airfare between now and expiration like we used to, because the "new" processes just seem exhausting. I used those little trips as an "escape" FROM stress, and Disney now seems like too much work and drama. Add learning the "new" DAS rules, and their yet to be announced "pre visit video" conferencing which would kill any ability to plan a surprise visit (my 18 year old has the disability) for kids...so, just one more Disney trip in 2022; I had originally budgeting for at least three.

So, we ARE looking at a week driving trip over the summer 2022 instead; and a To Be Determined Orlando area week.

For those familiar with Universal - is it true that a week is TOO long? One of the challenges I've always had with Disney for 7-9 days, is that we are in the parks every day - sometimes rope drop to Fireworks - and we come home exhausted. So, how many days of a Saturday to Saturday trip to Universal (thinking Portofino?) are park days? What do you do on the other days if you don't have a car (I used to LOVE Magic Transport - I don't like driving/navigating on vacation if I don't have to). Or would you do a 5 day trip? Rent a car and go to Cocoa Beach? Disney Springs?

Thanks for an advice/tips/input!

I do 10 days at Universal and dont get bored.
I do do other things though - like a day trip to Kennedy Space center and a day at SeaWorld - they have a bus to seaworld form UNI and you can book a trip to Kennedy with transport (and lunch with an Astronaut if you like)
For me it got to the point where it just was not worth going to Disney - I dont want to plan where I will be 60 days from now and what rides I will do. For me the recent changes might be better
It's much more relaxed and stress free IMO.
It may not be for everyone and that is fine - it works for me.

 

[jimmymc]

Our out of state passes expire end of March 2022.

We already have a split stay booked for late February/early March 2022 that miraculously corresponds with a college Spring Break and a quiet high school week between 3 sports. I took it as a sign. We will blunder around and try to figure out the new system...sigh. We will not be renewing our passes when they expire.

We likely WON'T be booking any long Disney weekends with $29 RT airfare between now and expiration like we used to, because the "new" processes just seem exhausting. I used those little trips as an "escape" FROM stress, and Disney now seems like too much work and drama. Add learning the "new" DAS rules, and their yet to be announced "pre visit video" conferencing which would kill any ability to plan a surprise visit (my 18 year old has the disability) for kids...so, just one more Disney trip in 2022; I had originally budgeted for at least three.

So, we ARE looking at a week driving trip over the summer 2022 instead; and a To Be Determined Orlando area week.

For those familiar with Universal - is it true that a week is TOO long? One of the challenges I've always had with Disney for 7-9 days, is that we are in the parks every day - sometimes rope drop to Fireworks - and we come home exhausted. So, how many days of a Saturday to Saturday trip to Universal (thinking Portofino?) are park days? What do you do on the other days if you don't have a car (I used to LOVE Magic Transport - I don't like driving/navigating on vacation if I don't have to). Or would you do a 5 day trip? Rent a car and go to Cocoa Beach? Disney Springs?

Thanks for an advice/tips/input!

If you want to try everything at Universal, then a week is great. That gives you two days in each park, a day at Volcano Bay, and time to enjoy the resort. You are also a very quick ride away from Icon Park, Fun Spot America, and the Mall at Millenia, if you don't want to do two full days at each park.

 

[jimmymc]

It seems like every time Disney does something dumb, a whole bunch of people talk about Universal instead, and I just don't get it. I almost wonder if it's astroturfing (which I would genuinely respect if that was Universal's PR move).

Apart from Jurassic Park and Harry Potter - everything else is just old or blah.

Simpsons is a BTTF overlay. Minions is a Hanna Barbera overlay - hey, look, the seats move now. (Honestly, the pre-show with the 3D glasses was my favorite part of the ride, and I loved that.) Men in Black is better than Buzz, but that's not saying much. Transformers is okay, but insanely loud. Fallon and Fast & Furious are all-time awful, which is even worse because they're new. Mummy is in too small of a building. Rip Ride Rockit has to be past its End of Life by now. (That happens to steel coasters - Hulk was fully rebuilt after reaching its EOL.) USP is essentially the HHN park, the same way Epcot became the festival park. Spiderman is okay, but that Marvel section is embarrassing - even more so when you realize it only exists because it stops WDW from using the characters. Most generic parks have a water ride like Popeye, and I don't ride Dudley Do Right because I don't wanna get that unrelentingly soaked (or spend money on the blasted dryer). And I hate CityWalk - it's awfully laid out (the upper section feels almost like a back alley) and I can't stand having to walk through it to get to the parks.

At this point, I can buy a one-day ticket to IOA (and maybe one night at HHN), do everything I want to do, and not go again for months or a year. (I would totally do HHN this year if not for COVID.)

I think some of the talk is just the "stigginit to Disney" factor. But those folks seem to miss the underlying truth - I can be pissed at Disney and still think WDW is a better park experience. (Most of my Orlando local friends freely admit that while they have APs for Uni and Sea World and enjoy both resorts a lot, they would be WDW APs if it weren't so insanely expensive.)

When I've hinted at stuff like this on other threads - the response is usually that WDW is out-of-date, too. I don't entirely disagree. But I don't mind a lot of WDW's out-of-date stuff (I would take MuppetVision over Minions, Shrek, or Fallon every day of the week and twice on Sunday), and the top-line stuff is unspeakably great.

I seriously hope that Epic Universe is brilliantly awesome, because I desperately want Disney to feel threatened enough to spend money on upgrading the parks. (Especially the Magic Kingdom, which is embarrassingly, horribly out of date - the fact that a 46-year-old steel coaster, long past its EOL, would even be considered for a paid FP - even just temporarily - is ludicrous.)

/end rant
//with apologies
///been constantly thinking this for weeks

I'm a Universal fan and a Disney fan, and I agree that you can't just substitute one for the other. I think the argument mostly comes up because of cost. Disney seems to be pricing out people with every update, especially the season pass pricing, while I can still buy a Universal Season pass with no blockout dates for $400. So just like that, I can do 2 or 3 Universal vacations for the price of 1 Disney trip.

Simpsons does look like a quick overlay of the old land, but I believe that actually makes it better. It feels exactly how I think Krustyland would look in the Simpsons universe. And Harry Potter blows Disney out of the water for an immersive land. I'm a bigger fan of Star Wars than Potter, but I spend much more time in Hogsmeade and Diagon Alley than Galaxy's Edge. Before going to Universal I always assumed it was a little sibling to Disney, but now I make it a point to go there every trip to Orlando, especially when I can get a season pass for relatively cheap.

 

[Disneylvr1971]

So with the news today those of us who are out of state took another gut punch.

With only the top tier available it seems more and more like they don't actually want us there anymore, or at least they don't want us to come back multiple times in a year.

I never understood the pricing structure for out of state since we generally stay at their hotels, buy their food and visit less often yet we get punished for it by paying the most for APs.

Using my scenario as an example, I try to get down from the Boston area about 3 times a year, if possible, usually totaling about 20ish days. I never come down at any peak times (ends of August/April/February for the most part), stay on site and never leave.

Why can't I get a Pirate Pass? Why can't I pay monthly? Is there some FLA to MA currency conversion that I'm not aware of?

I just emailed Disney regarding the monthly payment plan only for FL AP's. I don't get why they can't do it either. I pay monthly dues for my DVC dues and I'm "out of state" and they don't seem to have any problem taking my money then. Also Universal does offer this for out of state AP's so they can do it, they choose not to. I think a lot more DVC members would purchase the AP if they offered monthly installments. As it is because they don't, a lot of DVC people don't purchase any tickets and just do resort only trips.

As far as CM interactions, I agree that there are some less than happy CM's. However I do know several of them and guest interactions are terrible now. I would never take some of the crap that they get from some of these guests (and yes I do work in customer service). The horror stories of demanding people as if they are the only guests that these people have to take care. I agree that sometimes they are a little snappy, remember you may be asking them the same question as the previous 100 people, that they also do not have an answer to. This is not to say that I have never reported bad behavior (I had a horrible CM interaction last Dec). But sometimes you have to take it with a grain of salt, especially during busy times.

Not happy with the increase in prices either, but when comparing to Universal, it's 2 parks vs 4.

 

[twincruisers]

I just emailed Disney regarding the monthly payment plan only for FL AP's. I don't get why they can't do it either. I pay monthly dues for my DVC dues and I'm "out of state" and they don't seem to have any problem taking my money then. Also Universal does offer this for out of state AP's so they can do it, they choose not to. I think a lot more DVC members would purchase the AP if they offered monthly installments. As it is because they don't, a lot of DVC people don't purchase any tickets and just do resort only trips.

I heard an explanation on a podcast that Out-of-State people would try and game the system. They would buy AP's on their first day of a multi-day trip and pay the first few payments and then stop paying altogether. Basically "this is why we can't have good things"

 

[Disneylvr1971]

I heard an explanation on a podcast that Out-of-State people would try and game the system. They would buy AP's on their first day of a multi-day trip and pay the first few payments and then stop paying altogether. Basically "this is why we can't have good things"

Right, but as Universal does it, if you try to cancel or stop paying your get charged the full amount for the year. So it is easily done.

 

[Suzabella]

I heard an explanation on a podcast that Out-of-State people would try and game the system. They would buy AP's on their first day of a multi-day trip and pay the first few payments and then stop paying altogether. Basically "this is why we can't have good things"

I think I'd change the wording to 'could' and not 'would'. It's like any revolving credit agreement, though. I think it's more because Disney doesn't want the added cost of collections rather than loss risk. They're still going to make some money on that family trip from the people that 'could' game the system and could use it as a loss on the balance sheet.

 

[CBMom01]

Why do people think out of state passholders will default more frequently than in state?

 

[AmishGuy91]

Why do people think out of state passholders will default more frequently than in state?

Because it’s harder for out of state to attend.

 

[csmith1004]

I don’t need the payment plan. I’ll gladly pay the full amount for the Pirate Pass. I can’t afford $1300 x 4 so we will plan one trip next year instead of 3 once our passes expire. We only come ‘off season’ so by not allowing us to buy the cheaper passes Disney is losing $ from me. We always stay on site, buy souvenirs and eat in the parks when there. We make those extra trips only because we have the AP tickets.

 

[Suzabella]

I don’t need the payment plan. I’ll gladly pay the full amount for the Pirate Pass. I can’t afford $1300 x 4 so we will plan one trip next year instead of 3 once our passes expire. We only come ‘off season’ so by not allowing us to buy the cheaper passes Disney is losing $ from me. We always stay on site, buy souvenirs and eat in the parks when there. We make those extra trips only because we have the AP tickets.

I don't think you're alone. I think this is a 'looks good on paper' idea when in reality, it will cost them in areas they just can't anticipate....yet. Just like stopping ME. Those losses are gonna add up quick.

 

[TwoMisfits]

Our out of state passes expire end of March 2022.

We already have a split stay booked for late February/early March 2022 that miraculously corresponds with a college Spring Break and a quiet high school week between 3 sports. I took it as a sign. We will blunder around and try to figure out the new system...sigh. We will not be renewing our passes when they expire.

We likely WON'T be booking any long Disney weekends with $29 RT airfare between now and expiration like we used to, because the "new" processes just seem exhausting. I used those little trips as an "escape" FROM stress, and Disney now seems like too much work and drama. Add learning the "new" DAS rules, and their yet to be announced "pre visit video" conferencing which would kill any ability to plan a surprise visit (my 18 year old has the disability) for kids...so, just one more Disney trip in 2022; I had originally budgeted for at least three.

So, we ARE looking at a week driving trip over the summer 2022 instead; and a To Be Determined Orlando area week.

For those familiar with Universal - is it true that a week is TOO long? One of the challenges I've always had with Disney for 7-9 days, is that we are in the parks every day - sometimes rope drop to Fireworks - and we come home exhausted. So, how many days of a Saturday to Saturday trip to Universal (thinking Portofino?) are park days? What do you do on the other days if you don't have a car (I used to LOVE Magic Transport - I don't like driving/navigating on vacation if I don't have to). Or would you do a 5 day trip? Rent a car and go to Cocoa Beach? Disney Springs?

Thanks for an advice/tips/input!

I usually plan 4 days for the Universal 2 main ride parks - that let's you see every show, do all shopping, hit City Walk, and ride some of your favorites over again (and all rides once)...if I were you, I would go for a week. If you don't have a car, add on Universal's water park for a day, and then spend another day doing dinner and a movie (with a pool day) or mini golf and dinner at City Walk. That's 6 days of fun without exhausting yourself (and then you can fly in and fly out whenever)...

PS - And if you're like me who goes for 10ish days, then add more of Orlando on. Last trip, we did 2 dinner theaters after pool/resort days and we did SeaWorld for free on Vet tickets...there's LOTS of Orlando fun around if you take an Uber or have a car...

 

[twincruisers]

Why do people think out of state passholders will default more frequently than in state?

Best guess is collections cost are higher due to different state laws so Disney just punted and said we'll do it for FL for WDW and CA for DLR and that's good enough. It shows when HI and SC also don't offer payment plans even though Disney have a physical presence there in DVC.

 

[Brett Wyman]

We have had APs since 2017 and when these expire we are done. It's not just the AP price increase, and loss of Photo Pass, although those hurt. But it's the added loss of ALL the things. The paid Lightening Lane rides, Park Passes being here to stay, Genie + having to get up at 7am, and the list goes on. We'll be back once a year, but not as AP holders.

 

[CBMom01]

Because it’s harder for out of state to attend.

This makes sense to me.

 

[brightlined]

Right, but as Universal does it, if you try to cancel or stop paying your get charged the full amount for the year. So it is easily done.

I disagree. That doesn't work if the person cancels the payment method they used. Or if they hit their credit limit - ie, if they simply don't have the money. Disney's AP are significantly more expensive then Universal's - it's far more likely that the "just get charged the full amount" will fail when it comes to Disney than for Universal.

Disney has a lot more to lose than Universal does from defaulters. There's more interest in Disney from out-of-staters than Universal - it's statistically more likely to happen to them on that note alone. It all kinda compounds on itself.

I'll admit that I'm surprised that they don't offer a payment plan to DVCers, considering Disney already has arrangements with them. But I get why they don't offer it to general out-of-state residents.

(With the note that Disney has been making it abundantly clear that they aren't all that interested in out-of-state guests having APs, and offering a payment plan would incentivize them.)

 

[JennP78]

It seems like every time Disney does something dumb, a whole bunch of people talk about Universal instead, and I just don't get it. I almost wonder if it's astroturfing (which I would genuinely respect if that was Universal's PR move).

Apart from Jurassic Park and Harry Potter - everything else is just old or blah.

Simpsons is a BTTF overlay. Minions is a Hanna Barbera overlay - hey, look, the seats move now. (Honestly, the pre-show with the 3D glasses was my favorite part of the ride, and I loved that.) Men in Black is better than Buzz, but that's not saying much. Transformers is okay, but insanely loud. Fallon and Fast & Furious are all-time awful, which is even worse because they're new. Mummy is in too small of a building. Rip Ride Rockit has to be past its End of Life by now. (That happens to steel coasters - Hulk was fully rebuilt after reaching its EOL.) USP is essentially the HHN park, the same way Epcot became the festival park. Spiderman is okay, but that Marvel section is embarrassing - even more so when you realize it only exists because it stops WDW from using the characters. Most generic parks have a water ride like Popeye, and I don't ride Dudley Do Right because I don't wanna get that unrelentingly soaked (or spend money on the blasted dryer). And I hate CityWalk - it's awfully laid out (the upper section feels almost like a back alley) and I can't stand having to walk through it to get to the parks.

At this point, I can buy a one-day ticket to IOA (and maybe one night at HHN), do everything I want to do, and not go again for months or a year. (I would totally do HHN this year if not for COVID.)

I think some of the talk is just the "stigginit to Disney" factor. But those folks seem to miss the underlying truth - I can be pissed at Disney and still think WDW is a better park experience. (Most of my Orlando local friends freely admit that while they have APs for Uni and Sea World and enjoy both resorts a lot, they would be WDW APs if it weren't so insanely expensive.)

When I've hinted at stuff like this on other threads - the response is usually that WDW is out-of-date, too. I don't entirely disagree. But I don't mind a lot of WDW's out-of-date stuff (I would take MuppetVision over Minions, Shrek, or Fallon every day of the week and twice on Sunday), and the top-line stuff is unspeakably great.

I seriously hope that Epic Universe is brilliantly awesome, because I desperately want Disney to feel threatened enough to spend money on upgrading the parks. (Especially the Magic Kingdom, which is embarrassingly, horribly out of date - the fact that a 46-year-old steel coaster, long past its EOL, would even be considered for a paid FP - even just temporarily - is ludicrous.)

/end rant
//with apologies
///been constantly thinking this for weeks

I agree with a lot of what you said here. I have said some similar things to DH - so many rides feel same ole, same ole. The seats move and water splashes at you. Shrug.

Everything is either jiggling seats or a crazy coaster that is too much for us (but that is just personal preference, I guess.) Maybe we would get more out of it if we liked the crazy thrill rides.

I don't care for the food, either. Disney has much better choices, IMO. And yes, it takes forever just to walk in.

DH and DS like it a lot, though, and don't seem to care about what I stated so I have fun since I am watching them have fun. And I do love the HP area. There's nothing else like it.