Okay - reading about the Amish is fun - but...

[freckles and boo]

What I don't understand about the Amish is if they don't believe in having certain things (automobiles for example) then shouldn't they refrain from even using them? Seems to me it's pretty hypocritical to believe in not owning something yourself, but think nothing of asking to use it from a neighbor.

I know some Amish ask neighbors quite often to take them places in their car. An emergency is one thing, but over and over and over for non-emergencies, to me, is kind of rude.

Without a doubt they pay for their rides.

I think a lot of people find the Amish lifestyle charming and romantic, but I agree with you to a point. I don't think there is anything inherently noble or better about living a life of simplicity when the rules are so inconsistently (dare I say randomly?) followed. On the other hand, we all pick and choose which rules we are going to live by so they really aren't all that different than the rest of us.

I have bigger problems with the strict gender roles, the limited formal education, and the insular nature of some communities. However, they do give their youths an opportunity to explore the world and make an informed decision about whether to join the community or not. I HATE the idea of shunning. In my opinion there is nothing loving or moral about that.

 

[stevenpensacola]

I just finished reading the book "Plain Secrets"...written by an "English" man who lived among the Swartzentruber Amish. My wife likes reading books about the Amish...(we've made several visits to Amish communities on vacation) this was a book she had picked up from the local library...looked interesting...and it was.

from Amazon:

n an engaging personal memoir, Mackall, an Ohio-based writer and professor of English, describes the close-knit relationship he has cultivated over more than a decade with a neighboring Amish family. This is neither an exposé nor an outsider's fanciful romanticization of the Amish. By focusing on the loves and losses of one large Amish clan, Mackall breathes life into a complex group often idealized or caricatured. He refers, for example, not to "the Amish" writ large, but instead to "the Swartzentruber Amish I know," describing in some detail the tremendous differences between the Swartzentrubers, by far the most traditional sect, and the Old Order, New Order, Beachy and other Amish groups. The Swartzentrubers not only eschew electricity but also padded or upholstered chairs, souped-up buggies, indoor plumbing, the tradition of rumspringa (a running-around period for some Amish teens) and—perhaps most important for this narrative—contact with "the English." Mackall's is the first book to venture behind-the-scenes of this most conservative Amish group. At times Mackall is critical of the Swartzentruber way of life (such as when an eight-year-old girl dies in a buggy accident because the sect rejects safety measures for buggies), but it is a deeply respectful account that never veers toward sensationalism. (June)
Copyright © Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

I've asked my wife, how she would feel if people were driving by taking photos of her getting the mail, mowing the lawn etc...

 

[MIGrandma]

Without a doubt they pay for their rides.

I think a lot of people find the Amish lifestyle charming and romantic, but I agree with you to a point. I don't think there is anything inherently noble or better about living a life of simplicity when the rules are so inconsistently (dare I say randomly?) followed. On the other hand, we all pick and choose which rules we are going to live by so they really aren't all that different than the rest of us.

I have bigger problems with the strict gender roles, the limited formal education, and the insular nature of some communities. However, they do give their youths an opportunity to explore the world and make an informed decision about whether to join the community or not. I HATE the idea of shunning. In my opinion there is nothing loving or moral about that.

Even paying for the rides, to me, is still rude if they do it over and over.

I agree wtih you about the strict gender roles and especially the limited education. My DH was a Mennonite (Holderman) when I met him and most Mennonite children were forced to quit public school after completing the 8th grade. DH's family allowed their children to graduate, and go on to college if they choosed to do so. Now the Mennonites here have their own school and it only goes to 8th grade. So sad. Especially when their teachers have only had an 8th grade education as well, and some of them can't even spell properly.

Don't even get me started on shunning. Since DH was expelled when he married me, we've had our fair share of that. It broke my heart when we went to a family Christmas gathering and they made us go through the food line first (so we would sit first) and there were 3 rows of tables and not one family sat with us. The last couple (DH's aunt and uncle) that went through the food line actually split up, one sat at one table and the other sat at the other, so nobody would have to sit with us. Our children were probably 6 and 4 at the time and they wanted to know why nobody would sit with us. That was the last family gathering of that nature we went to.

 

[Trish Bessette]

There is one group of Amish (sorry I could not spell the name I just know how to say it - end of the name is "truben") don't allow women to use feminine hygiene products.

Good gosh what do you do???

 

[freckles and boo]

Don't even get me started on shunning. Since DH was expelled when he married me, we've had our fair share of that. It broke my heart when we went to a family Christmas gathering and they made us go through the food line first (so we would sit first) and there were 3 rows of tables and not one family sat with us. The last couple (DH's aunt and uncle) that went through the food line actually split up, one sat at one table and the other sat at the other, so nobody would have to sit with us. Our children were probably 6 and 4 at the time and they wanted to know why nobody would sit with us. That was the last family gathering of that nature we went to.

I am sorry your family was treated so poorly. There is no cultural or religious reason that I would ever find acceptable for that kind of bad behavior.

 

[Sugardimples]

Another thing that people don't know is that the Amish are really big in the world of puppy mills. I live in South Central Pennsylvania and they are notorious for their poor treatment of dogs. They feel very differently about animals as pets and it is not unusual for dogs to be resuced from Amish puppy mills.

 

[wdwfan16]

What I don't understand about the Amish is if they don't believe in having certain things (automobiles for example) then shouldn't they refrain from even using them? Seems to me it's pretty hypocritical to believe in not owning something yourself, but think nothing of asking to use it from a neighbor.

I know some Amish ask neighbors quite often to take them places in their car. An emergency is one thing, but over and over and over for non-emergencies, to me, is kind of rude.

They do not ask for free rides they hire a person to driver them.

They evaluate each and every modern item. They then decide if it will help the family or divide them, like is so common on the "English" families.

Vehicles sitting in your yard make it easy for a family member to run away from the family.

They have phones, some are in the barn and others are in outhouse type buildings at the road. A phone is definitely a good item for calling an ambulance or getting in touch with customers but putting them in the house allows a member to ignore the family.

The Amish are not ME ME ME oriented. They value community and family over the individual.

If you really knew on you would know they would help anybody who asks, are very kind and compassionate people. Many in our society could learn this.

If your DH got baptized and then married out of the order he knew he would be shunned.

I am not a fan of shunning but it is also common in the "English" community too. How many threads do we see here with family problems where X does not talk to Y.

I have found that shunning is also enforce to different amounts by different families.

I know a former Amish family who left the church. The wife's family shunned them but the husband's did not. His sisters come over to their home and like to watch "chick flicks" with his wife.

 

[ckay87]

I also have a less-than-popular opinion about the Amish in that I don't find their lifestyle particularly charming or romantic. And I do live among them. Every single day I encounter bikes and buggies on my commute. Amish farms all around me; I buy pretty much all of my produce from them. I don't call myself an expert, but trust me, we rub elbows.

I admire their devotion to their religion. When those poor schoolchildren were murdered, I saw forgiveness in action the likes of which I would never have believed possible. But I have a difficult time admiring religious practices that involve shunning. Hate the way they treat animals (puppy mills, etc.) It's just the little things that lead to my not having such romantic notion about them. Kind of just an extreme religious group in my mind.

 

[pweyl36]

I saw a group of Amish people at the Milwaukee Zoo once. I wondered how they got there.....

That was the one and only time I have ever seen an Amish person. I was definitely staring-simply out of curiosity. Everything from the bonnets, long dresses with aprons, shoes, hair, etc....I felt like I was stepping back in time.

We saw an Amish couple at wdw standing in line for a ride. They do hire to drive them places. They can do alot of things but they can't drive a car. When we going camping in Lancaster, we will eat at this diner and alot of amish will have there dinner there or take out.

 

[AndreaDM]

Even paying for the rides, to me, is still rude if they do it over and over.

It's no different than taking a cab, we wouldn't be considered rude if we did that every day. Trust me, there are people around here who make a very good living driving the Amish to Dr. appts., shopping, etc.!

 

[MIGrandma]

It's no different than taking a cab, we wouldn't be considered rude if we did that every day. Trust me, there are people around here who make a very good living driving the Amish to Dr. appts., shopping, etc.!

I don't think paying for/taking a cab is a good comparison. The taxi driver is earning his living by being hired for rides. Neighbors of the Amish more than likely have their own jobs, their own families, their own homes to take care of, etc. so any time they are driving Amish people around is taking time away from those things.

Like I said, an emergency is one thing and certainly understandable, but to be asked over and over and over? If it were me, I wouldn't like it.

And I just really don't understand the thinking that they are forbidden to have a car of their own, but it's perfectly okay to ride in them.

 

[C.Ann]

Wow! I am totally stunned to see so many responses to this thread..

It appears that many of the misconceptions regarding the Amish and the Mennonites have been addressed (and corrected) by some already..

I will freely admit that when I first started really reading a lot of Amish fiction last year - book after book after book - I had somewhat of a "romanticized" opinion myself.. However, once I decided to take the time to really look into what these cultures were all about, my eyes were widely opened.. Now - having read many, many more non-fiction books this year than fiction - I am learning more and more each day - finding that there is still much more to be learned - and realizing that many of their practices aren't really different than what we see out in the general society.. These practices are just labled with a different name..

As a PP wrote, many have issues with shunning - yet we see a form of shunning going on daily right here on the DIS.. In-law's; grandparents; cousins; siblings; etc..

As of yet, I have read nothing in regards to "puppy mills" - although that doesn't mean they don't exist.. However, "general" society also has more than their fair share of "puppy mills" - so I don't think it's something that can be said to exist only in one or two cultures..

While there are Mennonites that most certainly own and drive cars; use electricity; etc., there are also Old Order Mennonites that don't.. Again - it depends on the location; the order; the group; etc.. Things like this are simply not things that can be generalized..

The misconception that these people don't pay taxes is probably one of the biggest - and couldn't be further from the truth.. They pay all taxes except SS.. However, if they are employed in the "outside" world - such as carpenters - SS is taken out of their pay checks - although they will never collect a penny of it in their lifetimes.. Members of Old Order groups know they are secure for life, no matter if sickness, financial ruin, fire, or old age comes.. How many of us can say that?

I also read something recently (in 2 different books) that the Amish are known as some of the worlds best farmers - due to their vast agricultural knowledge, hard work, and their willingness to return to the land whatever they take out.. (Reinvestment in the soil, if you will..)

In the past 20 years their population has doubled and expectations are that they will continue to grow in large numbers.. There has also been an increase in "English" leaving the "outside world" and after proving their faith and worthiness, being baptized into the church.. More than 80% of teens who leave the Amish to "try" the outside world will return - and not because of a lack of education or the inability to support themselves.. When interviewed as to why they have returned, more often than not it is because they miss the closeness of a community family - a place where everyone heps everyone - and no one is left homeless, hungry, and cold..

Anyhow - as I learn more, I will continue to add to this thread if others are interested in reading it.. This is no longer a "passing fancy" for me.. While continuing to enjoy the fiction works, I am taking the time in between to read as many non-fiction books as I can - in order to expand my own knowledge and dispel the misconceptions I may have assumed in my own mind..

Glad to see that others have an interest as well..

Although I have pretty much decided that my traveling days are over, maybe - just "maybe" - after I have visited the Amish communities not far from where I am now, I will look into possibly making a trip to PA or OH with my DD when the weather would be conducive to my health issues.. Time will tell..

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread..

 

[AndreaDM]

I don't think paying for/taking a cab is a good comparison. The taxi driver is earning his living by being hired for rides. Neighbors of the Amish more than likely have their own jobs, their own families, their own homes to take care of, etc. so any time they are driving Amish people around is taking time away from those things.

Maybe I wasn't clear, but there ARE lots of people around here that are basically taxi drivers for the Amish. They drive vans for the most part since the Amish will sometimes double up with another family to go into town to do their shopping and split the cost. Sure, some ask neighbors for rides and pay them, but if the neighbors didn't want to do it, they wouldn't. Not rude at all. I had an Amish babysitter when my 2 oldest were little and I would often give her rides places and I didn't mind at all. She either paid me cash or we swapped babysitting for rides, etc. My sister gives her Amish neighbors rides in exchange for tons of fresh produce from their garden. Unless you live among them and experience the relationship first hand, it's hard to understand their ways and many people do jump to conclusions and judge them.

Also, someone mentioned the lack of feminine hygiene products among the Swartzentrubers. I'm sure it's not like they don't use anything, but very likely some type of cloth that they wash and reuse, just as they cloth diaper their babies.

However, if they are employed in the "outside" world - such as carpenters - SS is taken out of their pay checks - although they will never collect a penny of it in their lifetimes

You are correct on that which is why most Amish (if they aren't self employed) prefer to be employed by another Amish church member because if the employer is Amish as well, SS will not be withheld. I used to work in public accounting and did the payroll for a number of Amish owned businesses, it was tough keeping all that straight I tell ya!

 

[stevenpensacola]

don't forget the classic "Amish Paradise" by Weird Al

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo74Dn7W_pA

 

[GenieCat]

As an alternative to visiting the Amish communities as a tourist, it might be more fun and educational for younger children and parents to visit Colonial Williamsburg or the Colonial Pennsylania Plantation, where living history is the focus.

We have a small Amish community within about 50 miles of the city where I live. Although they have some fine restaurants and offer yummy baked goods for sale, I have never felt the need to visit for the purpose of observing their customs and cultural differences.

 

[Mimi1965]

I really enjoyed our one day in PA Amish country-it was kinda going to a living history museum-almost surreal-I HIGHLY recommend you visiting one some day


As for computer classes-check the library where your DD lives-mine offers classes every month(free)-it would help you with doing a spreadsheet on the Amish people.

 

[Belle0101]

Nappanee, IN

I guess you're never too old to learn - or develop an intense interest - in something new - huh?

I live in Nappanee, IN!

And you're right, you're never too old to learn something new! I'm always reading, searching for things on the internet ... I'm a very curious person.

We just came back from a week at Amish Acres in Nappanee, IN,

And by the way, do you know what an Amish Haystack Dinner is?

Living in Nappanee and having previously worked at The Inn at Amish Acres, how was your trip? What kind of things were able to do? What places were you able to visit? (Did I mention I'm a curious person? )

Funny story - I worked the 3PM to 11PM shift and I'd guess this was close to 10PM, we heard a strange noise, looked outside and a semi had gone off the road, called the police, called our manager ... the driver came in after it was straightened out, asked for a room and then asked, "Where can I find some Amish?" He pronounced it with a long "a".

We've had the Haystick Dinner. It was a fundraiser for one of the schools. Sounds strange, looks strange but it was actually quite good.

As for driving the Amish, I used to do that too. My retired neighbors, that still do drive the Amish, helped get me started. You can, and my neighbors do, make very good money doing it. The only limits to your earnings are the ones you place (i.e., days you'll drive, hours you'll drive, distance you're willing to drive, how much you charge).

 

[princessmom29]

So for many, it is not ok to drive a car, but perfectly ok to have soemone drive them? That sems so hypocritical to me. It you are not going to use modern convinences, don't use them. That includes using a loophole to have your cake and eat it too. It is like saying I can't have a washing machine, but I can send everything to the dry cleaners. I don't get how that is living a "plain" life if you are getting around the restrictions to use modern technology anyway. For what i have read they believe that modern technology is a crruting influence that distracts one for the spirtual. I would think tht would apply to cars wether or not you were the one driving it.

 

[Belle0101]

So for many, it is not ok to drive a car, but perfectly ok to have soemone drive them? That sems so hypocritical to me. It you are not going to use modern convinences, don't use them. That includes using a loophole to have your cake and eat it too. It is like saying I can't have a washing machine, but I can send everything to the dry cleaners. I don't get how that is living a "plain" life if you are getting around the restrictions to use modern technology anyway. For what i have read they believe that modern technology is a crruting influence that distracts one for the spirtual. I would think tht would apply to cars wether or not you were the one driving it.

I make no claims as to knowing the how or the why as to why they can't drive but can be passengers. There must be something with the Order they belong to that allows it.

Interesting that you would mention washing machine and dry cleaners. I had one client, super nice family, that I took to the laundromat quite often.

 

[DMRick]

I learned something today that I found interesting. The Amish near Palatine in NY love garage sales. We went to a town wide sale near where we are camping and there were buggies galore (and they just pulled over right up into people's yards). They seem to be quite the bargain hunters, as the buggies had lots of junk piled in them.

I also didn't realize that their younger kids seldom wear shoes. None of the little ones had them on, and were walking barefoot on the macadem on the edge of the road and in driveways..which were hot and littered with junk. I asked one little one where his shoes were, and his (or her, I couldn't tell) dad said they preferred barefoot. They were sure cute little kids, in their cute matching clothing...but I felt so bad that they were walking on the hot pavement.

I was talking to one of the people in the area about differences and she told me things could change yearly..depending on if their bishop (I think that's what she called him) had an epipheny about a reason a rule should change. One of those rules she said, might decide that riding in a car was fine this year, and not next. Even in that area she said there were differences, even thought they were neighbors.

The woman wore deeply starched clean clothes. All the men's looked pretty dirty..perhaps they came right off the fields. Many of the woman looked so pale..maybe it was because their clothing was so dark and they had no makeup on.