No Drum and Fife but Kwanza??!!

[SalutemyShorts]

Ah, I cringe when I see fellow LSU alum(or just fans) post stuff like this.

 

[shevys]

This post made me uncomfortable. You don't sound very interested in learning about different cultures. The Christmas story tellers are only there for the holiday season, then the regular entertainment should return. I believe the Kwanza storyteller is in the America Pavilion because Kwanza in a holiday that many Americans celebrate.

Really? I highly doubt "many" Americans celebrate Kwanzaa at all.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

I think I might understand what the OP is saying and what his issue is because I used to have a similar one. In Canada, United Kingdom, France, Norway, etc. they have these storytellers or Christmas icons who show the guests who Christmas is done in those countries. In countries like Morocco and China, Christmas really isn't a major holiday there since the Christian populations there aren't exactly what they are in other countries mentioned above. So, instead, we get to learn about Chinese New Years and holidays in Morocco (and I believe that when Ramadan falls around the Christmas holiday, they have had a storyteller talk about Ramadan specifically). So, why is there not someone like that in American Adventure? Instead, we learn about Hanukkah and Kwanzaa. But then I thought about it. Most people who visit Epcot are Americans and know how we do Christmas. And, even those who aren't Americans probably still have a good idea of how we do Christmas thanks to movies and television shows that are accessible word wide. What might not be known is how we do Hanukkah and Kwanzaa... especially Kwanzaa. As another poster pointed out, Hanukkah does make sense in American Adventure because we have a large Jewish population here in the states. I'm sure that many are interested in how it is celebrated. And, regarding Kwanzaa, as many have pointed out, it was created right here in America and is a holiday right after Christmas Day, so it's during the holiday season. It fits. Now, I do suppose it is true that it isn't a large population of Americans who celebrate Kwanzaa, but that doesn't mean that it isn't something that might interest others. And if it isn't of interest, then they don't have to stop. They can keep walking and go hear the storyteller in Italy. But, Kwanzaa and Hanukkah are parts of our American culture and it's good to show people those parts of America, as well. No, it isn't about Christmas. No, it isn't about the majority of our population. But it is about a holiday for Americans. Why not teach the world about something special to our country?

 

[ArwenMarie]

I think I might understand what the OP is saying and what his issue is because I used to have a similar one. In Canada, United Kingdom, France, Norway, etc. they have these storytellers or Christmas icons who show the guests who Christmas is done in those countries. In countries like Morocco and China, Christmas really isn't a major holiday there since the Christian populations there aren't exactly what they are in other countries mentioned above. So, instead, we get to learn about Chinese New Years and holidays in Morocco (and I believe that when Ramadan falls around the Christmas holiday, they have had a storyteller talk about Ramadan specifically). So, why is there not someone like that in American Adventure? Instead, we learn about Hanukkah and Kwanzaa. But then I thought about it. Most people who visit Epcot are Americans and know how we do Christmas. And, even those who aren't Americans probably still have a good idea of how we do Christmas thanks to movies and television shows that are accessible word wide. What might not be known is how we do Hanukkah and Kwanzaa... especially Kwanzaa. As another poster pointed out, Hanukkah does make since in American Adventure because we have a large Jewish population here in the states. I'm sure that many are interested in how it is celebrated. And, regarding Kwanzaa, as many have pointed out, it was created right here in America and is a holiday right after Christmas Day, so it's during the holiday season. It fits. Now, I do suppose it is true that it isn't a large population of Americans who celebrate Kwanzaa, but that doesn't mean that it isn't something that might interest others. And if it isn't of interest, then they don't have to stop. They can keep walking and go hear the storyteller in Italy. But, Kwanzaa and Hanukkah are parts of our American culture and it's good to show people those parts of America, as well. No, it isn't about Christmas. No, it isn't about the majority of our population. But it is about a holiday for Americans. Why not teach the world about something special to our country?

That's true, good point. And they have the Candlelight Processional.

 

[JimmyV]

Most people who visit Epcot are Americans and know how we do Christmas.

Exactly. Think for a moment what the role of a person in the American Pavilion would be in the context of "teaching" us how the U.S. celebrates Christmas. Pretty boring. What are they going to talk about....Black Friday?

 

[Itinkso]

Ah, I cringe when I see fellow LSU alum(or just fans) post stuff like this.

I think every person should cringe when they see posts like this. Yet, most responders think "educating" the OP about Kwanzaa is the answer. The OP's statement to move the Kwanzaa element to Africa is based on race, nothing more.

On another Thread, the OP listed the good, the bad, and the ugly of the trip. Guess which descriptor Kwanzaa fell under?

A few weeks ago in a "What not to do at WDW thread," I posted the racial slurs that are directed to my DD (4th-generation American) and other CMs who are Asian-American by WDW guests and the response was two-fold:

- some DISers learned that some WDW guests are racist
- I received an infraction for my post.

 

[JimmyV]

I think every person should cringe when they see posts like this. Yet, most responders think "educating" the OP about Kwanzaa is the answer. ....
- I received an infraction for my post.

Because if people responded to the OP with what they really thought...they'd get infractions!

 

[pooch]

represented in World Showcase, America is a melting pot of many cultures and, at only 228 years old, a relative newbie. We are not an homogenous people. Our heritage and traditions come from all corners of the world. We could present holiday traditions from just about anywhere and be able to say it is celebrated somewhere in our country by Americans. To me this is an amazing diversity that cannot be claimed anywhere else in the world. Wouldn't it be wonderful to present all of these traditions in our American Pavillion, maybe not practical but truly a tribute to who and what America is!

 

[LSUTigerDISfreak]

I went to the Fife & Drum earlier this year and they had the gall to sell pretzels. Um, hello, this is the American pavilion, shouldn't pretzels be in Germany? Obviously, Disney hates America.

I meant the drum & fife drum corps ... you know people dressed in Bicentennial garb playing drums and flutes...

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I think every person should cringe when they see posts like this. Yet, most responders think "educating" the OP about Kwanzaa is the answer. The OP's statement to move the Kwanzaa element to Africa is based on race, nothing more.

On another Thread, the OP listed the good, the bad, and the ugly of the trip. Guess which descriptor Kwanzaa fell under?

A few weeks ago in a "What not to do at WDW thread," I posted the racial slurs that are directed to my DD (4th-generation American) and other CMs who are Asian-American by WDW guests and the response was two-fold:

- some DISers learned that some WDW guests are racist
- I received an infraction for my post.

Meh, that race card is tossed out way too easily. I got accused on this board of racism because I called the leaders of N Korea "goofballs" It was every bit intended to be an insult, but hadn't a damn thing to do with race.


As for Kwanzaa, once again "meh". A lot of people are under the false impression it's a real holiday celebrated in Africa, not a made up holiday "created" by an American. Anyone under that impression would certainly expect to see that in the African pavillian, not the American. Call them ignorant or confused, but the notion is hardly racist.

 

[LSUTigerDISfreak]

Ah, I cringe when I see fellow LSU alum(or just fans) post stuff like this.

don't cringe

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Meh, that race card is tossed out way too easily. I got accused on this board of racism because I called the leaders of N Korea "goofballs" It was every bit intended to be an insult, but hadn't a damn thing to do with race.


As for Kwanzaa, once again "meh". A lot of people are under the false impression it's a real holiday celebrated in Africa, not a made up holiday "created" by an American. Anyone under that impression would certainly expect to see that in the African pavillian, not the American. Call them ignorant or confused, but the notion is hardly racist.

Exactly!

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I meant the drum & fife drum corps ... you know people dressed in Bicentennial garb playing drums and flutes...

Poster is aware if whom you are speaking about--the group whose origins come from the British formerly performing at American Adventure in World Showcase alongside or nearby a snack booth that sells Pretzels, a German tradition.

 

[pooch]

​

.


As for Kwanzaa, once again "meh". A lot of people are under the false impression it's a real holiday celebrated in Africa, not a made up holiday "created" by an American.

Valentines Day, Mothers Day, Fathers Day

 

[wilkeliza]

I think I might understand what the OP is saying and what his issue is because I used to have a similar one. In Canada, United Kingdom, France, Norway, etc. they have these storytellers or Christmas icons who show the guests who Christmas is done in those countries. In countries like Morocco and China, Christmas really isn't a major holiday there since the Christian populations there aren't exactly what they are in other countries mentioned above. So, instead, we get to learn about Chinese New Years and holidays in Morocco (and I believe that when Ramadan falls around the Christmas holiday, they have had a storyteller talk about Ramadan specifically). So, why is there not someone like that in American Adventure? Instead, we learn about Hanukkah and Kwanzaa. But then I thought about it. Most people who visit Epcot are Americans and know how we do Christmas. And, even those who aren't Americans probably still have a good idea of how we do Christmas thanks to movies and television shows that are accessible word wide. What might not be known is how we do Hanukkah and Kwanzaa... especially Kwanzaa. As another poster pointed out, Hanukkah does make sense in American Adventure because we have a large Jewish population here in the states. I'm sure that many are interested in how it is celebrated. And, regarding Kwanzaa, as many have pointed out, it was created right here in America and is a holiday right after Christmas Day, so it's during the holiday season. It fits. Now, I do suppose it is true that it isn't a large population of Americans who celebrate Kwanzaa, but that doesn't mean that it isn't something that might interest others. And if it isn't of interest, then they don't have to stop. They can keep walking and go hear the storyteller in Italy. But, Kwanzaa and Hanukkah are parts of our American culture and it's good to show people those parts of America, as well. No, it isn't about Christmas. No, it isn't about the majority of our population. But it is about a holiday for Americans. Why not teach the world about something special to our country?

Um the American pavilion does also teach Christmas. The Candlight Processional which is the story of Jesus is done every night 3 times a night at the American Gardens Theater and is the biggest of all the holidays around the world events. They also have Santa (the traditional one for the US) out through out the day to meet the kiddies.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

Um the American pavilion does also teach Christmas. The Candlight Processional which is the story of Jesus is done every night 3 times a night at the American Gardens Theater and is the biggest of all the holidays around the world events. They also have Santa (the traditional one for the US) out through out the day to meet the kiddies.

I don't really see The Candlelight Processional as teaching how Americans do Christmas. It's the Christmas story and it is beautiful, but there's no talk of traditions or anything like that. I will give you Santa, though. But I will stand by what I said about how we don't really need a storyteller to talk of how we do Christmas here in the states. Most people who visit Epcot already have a pretty good understanding of how that is done. But Hanukkah and Kwanzaa are different stories. Most likely don't know about those. I understand why we have storytellers for those holidays.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I don't really see The Candlelight Processional as teaching how Americans do Christmas. It's the Christmas story and it is beautiful, but there's no talk of traditions or anything like that. I will give you Santa, though. But I will stand by what I said about how we don't really need a storyteller to talk of how we do Christmas here in the states. Most people who visit Epcot already have a pretty good understanding of how that is done. But Hanukkah and Kwanzaa are different stories. Most likely don't know about those. I understand why we have storytellers for those holidays.

I am sure we could get legalistic about the song selections--I have not attended in years...

But it seems to be in line with many Pageants in America around Christmas time.

To have a storyteller on the side kind of telling the same thing would be rather redundant.

I do agree with telling about different traditions as a means of teaching guests about them.

 

[kidd_freeper]

The OP has objections to Kwanzaa that are probably not racist in nature. He objected to the location, not its celebration.

Wikipedia notes that Kwanzaa:

Kwanzaa is a celebration that has its roots in the black nationalist movement of the 1960s, and was established as a means to help African Americans reconnect with their African cultural and historical heritage by uniting in meditation and study of African traditions and Nguzo Saba, the "seven principles of African Heritage" which Karenga said "is a communitarian African philosophy".​

As the Wikipedia citation notes, the intent is to help African-American celebrate their roots. I would imagine that the OP would also have a problem with the celebration of St. Patricks day in the American Pavillion as well... It isn't a race thing, its a matter of whose history is being celebrated in the American Pavillion. Yes, we are a melting pot. We are a melting pot with our own hisory.

I am guessing that the OP would LOVE to hear African-American spiritual music sung in the American Pavillion. "Go Tell It On The Mountain" is one of my favorite Christmas songs. Distinctly American, created by enslaved Americans.

If we're all ready to get our pants in a bunch over race, then why is anyone here even visiting EPCOT? There are NO predominantly black nations represented in EPCOT. Not Morocco - African, yes. Black - no. It is all Arab and Berber. The only way to explore black African heritage in Epcot is to visit a tiny corner in the back of the park, lumping all the African blacks into a gift shop of drums.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

​

Valentines Day, Mothers Day, Fathers Day

None a holiday celebrated around this time of year. Would be silly to include those. Poster meant that people erroneously believe that it originated on a different continent.

 

[pooch]

None a holiday celebrated around this time of year. Would be silly to include those. Poster meant that people erroneously believe that it originated on a different continent.

I was just pointing out we frequently "create" holidays.