No ABD for us - our plan

[GuardMusic]

For nearly a year, my BFF and I were planning to do ABD London/Paris in Sept. 2009.

Then the prices were released a couple of weeks ago. In less than an hour, we quickly determined this was more than we wanted to spend (and we both have doctorates!). Hello?! The price jumped $1000 from 2008. Simply crazy.

So we've looked at a number of other tours, but none of them ever felt just right. There was no eureka moment. We looked at Globus, Trafalgar, General Tours, and more. Either they were too hands off, didn't include enough days, had no air conditioning in questionable hotels, etc. The closest we came was General Tours. We're most worried about Paris as neither of us has ever been there and neither of us speaks the language; I've already been to London.

Then last night it finally came altogether.

We're going to do 4 nights in London and still have to choose the hotel, although we're down to some finalists. We'll have a 3 day London Travelcard, Original sightseeing tour hop on/off bus, travel to/from & admission to Windsor Castle, travel to/from Oxford, transfers to Eurostar and direct transport to... (wait for it) Disneyland Paris, where we will stay at least 3 nights at Sequoia Lodge, park tickets, travel to/from downtown Paris (2 day visite pass), 2 day museum card, hop on/off tour bus, and "Magical Express" to CDG.

We're also planning to fly on SkyMiles.

We probably won't do theatre tix. We already have Lion King tickets when they come to our area on tour.

So that's it. We feel we'll get the experience we want this way and still get Disney in there without paying the Disney price.

Feedback is welcomed.

 

[Turtlemom]

I'm a HUGE fan of ABD--but have also done both London and Paris on my own with friends/family. Although you won't get the group experience from ABD (they do tend to come up with "magical" moments), you definitely can have a great time on your own. Both cities are very accessible by public transportation and have more than enough things to see/do. One recommendation from my own experience--the Rick Steve's books have excellent information and have enabled us to create our own magical memories. I especially like the way that he rates the sites and includes lesser known destinations as well. It helps to prioritize what you want to see in each city before you go--and then be open to spontaneous adventures.

Good luck--and happy travels!

Turtlemom.

 

[bonnielynn]

I am with you on the price going up so much.. and I think its a fabulous idea to do it on your own... I have heard Rick Steve's is a good book to read.. Also I would be that it would be a bit more romantic doing it on your on as oppose to with 38 other people!

Enjoy!

 

[redzinner]

I think you made the right choice. DD and I have done London, York and Edinburgh on our own without a hitch. We experienced it all - Piccadilly, theater, the Tube, museums, train to York and Scotland, roundabouts (going around several times before figuring them out). We had a blast. Traveling with DH is different so that's why we are doing the ABD Viva Italia tour. He's the one that wants to 'do' Tuscany but doesn't want to drive in Italy. There are reasons people choose to do guided tours or vice-versa. It's a big market out there. You'll have a great time!

 

[SLK1]

I think it was the right decision. I was torn between the London/Paris tour and the Viva Italia tour. I figured I could do London and Paris by myself more easily than Italy, so I booked ABD Italy and wait a while before heading back to Europe on my own. I hope you have a great time!

 

[kristilew]

While I imgaine the price increase reflects the exchange rate these days, I think you made the right choice. Save the ABD for a country you can't comfortably do on your own. DH spends about a week a month near Windsor for work, and he manages to sneak in sight seeing on a regular basis. He says everything is very easy, including getting around by train or bus. Have a great trip!

 

[eva]

Did you look into a 4 or 5 day tour of just Paris to add to your London trip? Years ago we lived in Germany and we traveled all over Germany, Holland, Belgium, and Austria by ourselves. But many advised us to take a short tour when we decided we wanted to go to Paris. That was the best advice anyone ever gave us. We booked a 5 night tour (just the right length) that included a number of meals and our hotel. It was a highlight of our 3 years there in Europe. We were able to hit all the major attractions and have a bit of free time as well. Our tour was adults only and included a day trip to the Champagne region for a tour of the cellars and a great lunch. Then we also had a half day tour of Versailles. I'm sure you will do just fine on our own. But tours really know how to move you around in these large cities. Plus, they can get you to other places like Versailles very easily. There is no way we could have seen the things we did in just 5 days. Plus the side trips were major highlights of the tour.

 

[crashbb]

If you decide to re-consider the theatre idea, there are two half price ticket booths (well, two 'official' ones, and a whole lot of other ones). One is in Leicester Square (West End) and the other is in Brent Cross (in suburbia).

If you go the day of that you want to see a show, you can get cheaper tickets. If you check out their website, it will show you a daily listing of what shows they have tickets for (and which ones are discounted).

http://www.officiallondontheatre.co.uk/tkts/

Also, the Trip Advisor London forum is very helpful (as are the hotel reviews on the site):

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowForum-g186338-London_England.html

 

[Tom and Sue]

London can be done on your own. I would advise a personal tour for Paris. The city is just too spread out. We have used British Tours in the past and they have tours of Paris as well. All day for two is between $700-800 for 2 people and half day around $500.

 

[beansf]

Wow, I am so envious of your Disneyland Paris time! Have a great trip.

 

[bavaria]

Well, you asked for opinions, so here is mine as a very frequent Paris traveller, most recently last week

transfers to Eurostar and direct transport to... (wait for it) Disneyland Paris, where we will stay at least 3 nights at Sequoia Lodge, park tickets, travel to/from downtown Paris (2 day visite pass), 2 day museum card, hop on/off tour bus, and "Magical Express" to CDG

SL is 'ok', it is not the WL by any means, comfortable but not luxurious. I prefer the lesser priced but more themed Cheyenne myself; the SL is better only if one has a lakeview room, but the other rooms are on par with the Cheyenne.

Also note that my sister reported that taking the Eurostar she had a 2hr check in line in peak season (I've seen 1 hour lines in low season) So perhaps don't go directly to your hotel but check your luggage in the train station and then check in after the train crowd has done so.

I would skip the Paris Visite - it is a rip off for tourists. Are you going back and forth from central Paris to DLRP? If so, buy a 5 zone mobilis for 12,90/day unless you intend to use ALL the features of the Visite (which is almost impossible). Check www.ratp.fr but keep the site in French if you can; they don't show the 'real' prices on the English site, but only the higher priced tourist products. You can take the train in 40 minutes from DLRP to Auber station, and take the hop on/hop off bus from there.

Do you refer to the VEA Navette when you mean 'Magical Express'? it is fine, just be aware that the drivers won't handle your luggage ie won't load them for you (I do manage to get their help by tipping and I also speak fluent French, but generally they don't help the tourists on the bus) Also be aware that if the bus is full you may not be able to board. The good thing is that SL boards before Newport Bay Club so the bus shouldn't be full if you leave yourself enough time (Sunday afternoon is peak time for the bus and you may have to wait for one or take a private shuttle for about 90 Euros)

Paris can easily be done on your own; I don't recommend taking a tour other than the hop on/hop off which can be a good way to see quite a bit if you are pressed for time. Buy a good guidebook and do your research. Much of Paris is walking distance ie take the RER from DLRP to CDG-Etoile stop, get off and see the Arc, walk to Trocadero or take the metro, see the Eiffel Tower, walk back along the Champs Elysees, cross to les Invalides, see the Rodin Museum, cross back and see Place de la Concorde, walk to the Louvre, walk to the Opera, and back to Auber stop. On another day you can do the Orsay and Notre Dame easily by walking. I recommend the Orsay or the Rodin Museum over the Louvre as you will be able to tour with fewer tourists and may see something to your taste - check the websites before you visit to decide if you are interested.

Versailles is also an easy trip but it is extremely crowded. Even in low season, midweek, early in the morning it is impossible to see much. I prefer the Bavarian Castle system which limits entry, so be aware and don't be disappointed.

Other than that, I applaud your decision. Some people like tour groups, others do not. I fall into the second category, and have seen a very large part of the world on my own planning my own travel. Enjoy the trip, and if you have specific questions do feel free to PM me.

 

[bavaria]

All day for two is between $700-800 for 2 people and half day around $500.

The 'Adventures by Bavaria' tour of Paris can be had for half that cost

For that price, I really do have to ask what they provide? I'm just curious as I cannot fathom the value unless it includes some very decent meals

 

[crashbb]

The 'Adventures by Bavaria' tour of Paris can be had for half that cost

For that price, I really do have to ask what they provide? I'm just curious as I cannot fathom the value unless it includes some very decent meals

Yikes that is a lot!!

I spend a week in Paris in May as a tourist (finally had a chance to go and do no work) and didn't pay anything near that amount (not including hotel, which doesn't appear to be included in your tour).

I agree with the suggestions Bavaria posted in her previous post although since my hotel was in the 1st arrondissement I walked almost everywhere (I think I took the Metro 5 times, including traveling to the airport) so I stuck with a carnet of tickets rather than a mobilis (or any other pass).

My only other thought is that, in talking to others, they found the trip into Paris from DLP to be a pain. Unless you are only doing 1 day (or maybe 2) in Paris and the rest at DLP, you may want to stay in Paris (or split your stay).

 

[bavaria]

I agree with crashbb - I would not use DLRP as my base for Paris especially my first time. I often do metro plus train to get to DLRP from my area, which takes me 15 min plus 40 minutes. But I am in Paris a lot, and at DLRP for a few hours sometimes after work or on weekends.

First trip I would hate to be that far away, especially at the end of the day, tired from walking.

I too do the single tickets if I am not going to be doing a lot of metro/RER in a day, or buy a carnet of tickets. The Carte Orange is also a great option if you are travelling a lot Monday to Sunday but that doesn't sound like it in this case.

 

[GuardMusic]

Well, you asked for opinions, so here is mine as a very frequent Paris traveller, most recently last week
SL is 'ok', it is not the WL by any means, comfortable but not luxurious. I prefer the lesser priced but more themed Cheyenne myself; the SL is better only if one has a lakeview room, but the other rooms are on par with the Cheyenne.

Also note that my sister reported that taking the Eurostar she had a 2hr check in line in peak season (I've seen 1 hour lines in low season) So perhaps don't go directly to your hotel but check your luggage in the train station and then check in after the train crowd has done so.

I would skip the Paris Visite - it is a rip off for tourists. Are you going back and forth from central Paris to DLRP? If so, buy a 5 zone mobilis for 12,90/day unless you intend to use ALL the features of the Visite (which is almost impossible). Check www.ratp.fr but keep the site in French if you can; they don't show the 'real' prices on the English site, but only the higher priced tourist products. You can take the train in 40 minutes from DLRP to Auber station, and take the hop on/hop off bus from there.

Do you refer to the VEA Navette when you mean 'Magical Express'? it is fine, just be aware that the drivers won't handle your luggage ie won't load them for you (I do manage to get their help by tipping and I also speak fluent French, but generally they don't help the tourists on the bus) Also be aware that if the bus is full you may not be able to board. The good thing is that SL boards before Newport Bay Club so the bus shouldn't be full if you leave yourself enough time (Sunday afternoon is peak time for the bus and you may have to wait for one or take a private shuttle for about 90 Euros)

Paris can easily be done on your own; I don't recommend taking a tour other than the hop on/hop off which can be a good way to see quite a bit if you are pressed for time. Buy a good guidebook and do your research. Much of Paris is walking distance ie take the RER from DLRP to CDG-Etoile stop, get off and see the Arc, walk to Trocadero or take the metro, see the Eiffel Tower, walk back along the Champs Elysees, cross to les Invalides, see the Rodin Museum, cross back and see Place de la Concorde, walk to the Louvre, walk to the Opera, and back to Auber stop. On another day you can do the Orsay and Notre Dame easily by walking. I recommend the Orsay or the Rodin Museum over the Louvre as you will be able to tour with fewer tourists and may see something to your taste - check the websites before you visit to decide if you are interested.

Versailles is also an easy trip but it is extremely crowded. Even in low season, midweek, early in the morning it is impossible to see much. I prefer the Bavarian Castle system which limits entry, so be aware and don't be disappointed.

Other than that, I applaud your decision. Some people like tour groups, others do not. I fall into the second category, and have seen a very large part of the world on my own planning my own travel. Enjoy the trip, and if you have specific questions do feel free to PM me.

Bavaria:

This was spectacular & invaluable information! We've added it to our trip planning materials. This will definitely save us and help us determine if our travel agents develops a good package for us.

We're sold on having DLP as our base. We will be going into Paris proper only one day (slight possibility of two). I'm not sure what days of the week we will be there and if we will do Paris first or London first. (Suggestions? Leave the excitment of Disney until the end - or deal with the language barrier at the beginning?)

We will most likely be in Europe a Thursday through the next Friday? We will likely get a package quote from our agent in Oct. and I will DEFINITELY PM you with any questions we have at that time. This trip rests solely on our ability to get free SkyMiles flight which will not be released until Nov. or Dec.

I had originally chosen the Cheyenne, but best friend wants SL. When we looked at the online pricing there didn't seem to be a significant difference in price (to us).

We already have the Fodor's "See it London" book and our laminited London street & tube maps (I've been there before). Within 10 days I should be receiving the "Brit's Guide to DLP".

You can expect this USAer to become a regular on this board!
Gayle

 

[SweaterInJune]

We're most worried about Paris as neither of us has ever been there and neither of us speaks the language; I've already been to London.

Sounds like a good plan Don't worry about Paris! I just spent 5 1/2 days there last week and though I was a bit nervous at first(never having studied French), I had no worries after just a few hours. The Parisians are nothing like I had heard-very friendly! Most are very willing to speak English if they can, or pantomime what they're asking so you understand. Be sure to learn a few simple phrases and the kindness words out of respect because it always helps--and some people really don't know English.

The Museum Pass is fantastic and can really save time. If you plan on going to Notre Dame for the tower tours, get there at least 1/2 an hour earlier than opening. Even still they may open 40 min. late...

As others mentioned, Rick Steves' books are phenomenal! He also has some nice podcasts available with his own audio tours about specific places. Check them out if you're interested.

If I could recommend you on one thing that I feel is not-to-be missed in the Paris area (aside from Disney), go to Versailles! If you go when they open, you can plan to spend only half a day there and still see everything, most importantly the Gardens and the Petit Trianon with Marie Antoinette's hamlet! It was the most magical and breathtaking site I've ever seen (and I have been to tons of palaces and castles)! Absolutely lovely! I didn't go on a weekend, but if you do, the Gardens are an additional fee(6 or 7 Euro, I believe) because all of the fountains are on. I would recommend it if possible...

In London, don't miss Kensington Gardens!Find the Elfin Oak and Peter Pan statue(reacquaint yourself with Peter's story beforehand for an extra-magic trip). Covent Garden(a nice place to go to beat jet lag!), and the London Eye(for great views) are also must-sees, IMO. London has been my favorite city for ages, but Paris has definitely given it a run for it's money now.

Anyhow, best wishes for your travel! I hope it meets all of your expectations...and provides some magic!

I'm a bit jealous that you get to see Windsor Castle...I have relatives buried there and keep hoping to make it when I'm in London, but unfortunately, the Queen is always in residence while I'm there...

 

[crashbb]

I think you'll find that you'll be basing your city order on what Sky Miles you can get! That's what seems to happen to me most of the time.

The Eurostar is actually an easy way to get between the two cities, in case you end up with an open jaw flight and no connection.

You should have an amazing trip - London is one of my favourite cities in the world and Paris is right up there as well (I'm just much more familiar with London). Check out the tripadvisor forums for both cities - I found people on both boards very helpful.

ETA - I'm off to catch a flight (actually heading to DL for the half marathon), but I'll try to come back with some London/Paris suggestions.

 

[bavaria]

I was going to suggest that you contact crashbb, so glad that they have offered. Some more random thoughts from me

• if you make DLRP your base while in Paris, plan around starting/ending your day at the Auber or CDG-Etoile metro stops (first one is by the hop on/hop off tour 'start' and the department stores, second one by Arc de Triomphe and Champs-Elysees)
• I have rather strong feelings against Rick Steves and have yet to meet a German/French/Italian who does not find him patronizing and offensive. I know that he has a lot of fans here so I will keep it at that, other to say that his recommendations are no longer off the beaten path. I walked by a restaurant this past weekend proclaiming 'recommended by Rick Steves' and chuckled to see the patio apparently filled with American tourists and no locals. For a more local experience I can make some recommendations
• for guide books I tend to use my GEO and Marco Polo guides, but in English I find the Lonely Planet series is quite useful and avoids some of the more popular tourist spots. I also like the 'Little Black Book to Paris' but that tends to be for return visitors and not first time visitors, I find
• I would also consider what you truly want to see vs what guidebooks list as 'must see'. The Louvre for instance can be frustrating and disappointing. Go online and look at the offerings of various musuems and choose what interests you. For instance I recommend the Orsay and the Rodin museums; you can get a one day passport which reduces the cost and they are within walking distance of each other. The sculpture garden at the Rodin is a nice place to relax and have a coffee or light lunch or just to get away from tourist crowds
• I also suggest that you look at the Versailles site and decide if you must go there this trip. It does require a lot of time and if you are going in peak season, it will take you hours. Even in midwinter on a Tuesday I was frustrated, as it was filled with hoardes of tourists and one could not even stop to see anything before one was swept along by the crowds. I went through twice and gave up. The Bavarian castle system does a much better job of limiting entry so that you can actually experience things; Versailles gets so hot and crowded that it can become a miserable experience, sadly
• for dining I can suggest quite a bit of lower cost, local options which will take you away from the chains and tourist locations. Feel free to PM me for suggestions
• the Paris metro is easy to navigate once you learn how; there are many sites online which give you an overview. I suggest printing out a map to keep in your pocket, and using www.ratp.fr to plan your journeys

I will be happy to answer or respond more if you would like. And best of luck to crashbb!

 

[bavaria]

As to language - I am pretty well fluent in French so really cannot relate, but I do suggest learning the basic polite phrases and what to say/not to say to people. I have seen many American tourists raising their voices and even shouting at locals in English, which of course will put us off.

My 'favourite' recent story is the pair in the Paris metro on a quiet Sunday, shrieking at the ticket seller that they wanted to go to 'Noder Daaaaaaaame'. The seller patiently replied in excellent English 'yes, madame, you wish to go to Notre Dame' to which the tourist continued to shout, 'NO, we want to go to Noder Daaaaaaaaame' This went on for quite some time and I could even here them while I was standing on the platform. Needless to say I did not bother to offer them assistance, because their behaviour was so outrageous.

Many French especially in tourist locations speak at least some English, and I personally have never encountered the stereotype of 'rude Parisian'. I think that they only exist in response to rude tourists, to be very frank.

And DLRP is actually a little frustrating because they like to assume that visitors are from the UK; it annoys me to no end because English is not my first language. But once I start speaking they are pleased to revert back to French.

I would not worry about the language issue because simply by being concious of it you display that you are sensitive to it.

 

[SweaterInJune]

[*]I also suggest that you look at the Versailles site and decide if you must go there this trip. It does require a lot of time and if you are going in peak season, it will take you hours. Even in midwinter on a Tuesday I was frustrated, as it was filled with hoardes of tourists and one could not even stop to see anything before one was swept along by the crowds. I went through twice and gave up. The Bavarian castle system does a much better job of limiting entry so that you can actually experience things; Versailles gets so hot and crowded that it can become a miserable experience, sadly

It was only a suggestion on my part, and I'm not sure if others have suggested it or not, as I haven't read this entire thread. I went last week, in peak tourist season, on a Wednesday. Sure there were people and the Chateau itself I can take or leave...aside from about 4 rooms. I was recommending for the gardens and the Hamlet. The crowds were NOT a problem there... It was a bit crowded in the Chateau , but with some patience we were able to find a nice spot between large groups to enjoy our visit... We spent half a day and saw everything we wanted to without rushing.

Everyone needs to make their own decisions as to what they choose to see where, but I got more out of this then any other palace trip I've been to...including those around me. Schloss Neuschwanstein probably comes a close second, but primarily for the prime location... The 2 most perfect places I've ever been to, IMO. That's all I was offering.

And no, Rick Steves isn't perfect, nor unique in what he puts in his books, but they're easy to understand and solid in what they offer. I didn't travel with aid of his guides, but I've read them in the past and I enjoy his PBS series. I try to avoid any restaurants in guidebooks... that's just asking for trouble! The lonely planet books are great, as well as a few others.

I'm a recent college grad, and work for Disney when I'm in the US(in Germany, I'm an au pair), so I travel on a shoestring. I use whatever helps me and manage to see everything I want, at a leisurely pace. It takes prior planning and research. I want to have money to make the most of my time, but my travel instincts are better than anything I've read in any book, so I usually go by that. Occasionally a guidebook and I will agree on a valuable point, for instance, I wouldn't waste a penny on the Eiffel Tower... The view from Montparnasse or Sacre Coeur is much better...and cheaper!

Anyhow, I was only offering my personal opinion... I've done quite a bit of traveling and these are my 2 favorite cities I've been to...

No matter, I hope the OP picks day trips that interest and are right for her and her BFF...and that they have the trip of a lifetime