My neighborhood is installing license plate readers

[kdonnel]

In what I feel is an unnecessary response to a couple of incidents that occured the same week a couple months ago the HOA board has signed a 2 year contract with flock safety to install license plate readers at both neighborhood entrances positioned in a way to read plates on the way in and out.

https://www.flocksafety.com/

A couple months ago one of the rental properties in the neighborhood became occupied by squatters. The same week that the squatters became known a serial truck thief left a stolen truck in one of the neighborhood parks as he was running from the police at the time.

There was great outrage and an emergency HOA meeting was called. More people came to this meeting than all the prior annual meetings combined. At the meeting people were calling for armed security guards to patrol but backed off quickly when someone quickly did the math and announced that the HOA dues would need to rise $100-$125 monthly per home to cover a 24/7 security presence.

There has been ongoing issues for years with a piece of property right next to the neighborhood. The property is a hangout for known criminals who often WALK to the pool clubhouse to use the external outlets to charge their electronics as the property they are hanging out on has water but no power.

I am not sure that installing a plate reading system is going to help at all unless it comes with some giant ugly signs proclaiming that all vehicles entering the neighborhood are recorded, identified, and uploaded to the cloud. If giant signs are not placed then I can only see this being slightly helpful in investigating after the crime has been committed, not helping in anyway to deter crime.

Seems like we could get most of the positive effects with some giant signs and fake cameras and non of the negative effects.

Does anyone else live in a police state neighborhood with license plate readers?

 

[PrincessShmoo]

In what I feel is an unnecessary response to a couple of incidents that occured the same week a couple months ago the HOA board has signed a 2 year contract with flock safety to install license plate readers at both neighborhood entrances positioned in a way to read plates on the way in and out.

https://www.flocksafety.com/

A couple months ago one of the rental properties in the neighborhood became occupied by squatters. The same week that the squatters became known a serial truck thief left a stolen truck in one of the neighborhood parks as he was running from the police at the time.

There was great outrage and an emergency HOA meeting was called. More people came to this meeting than all the prior annual meetings combined. At the meeting people were calling for armed security guards to patrol but backed off quickly when someone quickly did the math and announced that the HOA dues would need to rise $100-$125 monthly per home to cover a 24/7 security presence.

There has been ongoing issues for years with a piece of property right next to the neighborhood. The property is a hangout for known criminals who often WALK to the pool clubhouse to use the external outlets to charge their electronics as the property they are hanging out on has water but no power.

I am not sure that installing a plate reading system is going to help at all unless it comes with some giant ugly signs proclaiming that all vehicles entering the neighborhood are recorded, identified, and uploaded to the cloud. If giant signs are not placed then I can only see this being slightly helpful in investigating after the crime has been committed, not helping in anyway to deter crime.

Seems like we could get most of the positive effects with some giant signs and fake cameras and non of the negative effects.

Does anyone else live in a police state neighborhood with license plate readers?

No. But we were very glad that our neighbor down the street has a license plate reader when our (new) truck was involved in a hit & run at 2 am one night. Got the offenders license plate and turned it over to the police to cover it. Also gave information to our insurance for them to collect from the vehicle owner.

 

[georgina]

I would want to know who is getting access to the information and how it would be used. This information should not be available to any nosy random folks who want to snoop or stalk.

 

[GreatLakes]

By this:

There has been ongoing issues for years with a piece of property right next to the neighborhood. The property is a hangout for known criminals who often WALK to the pool clubhouse to use the external outlets to charge their electronics as the property they are hanging out on has water but no power.

Do you mean the outlets are external to the clubhouse so they can be used without having to enter the neighborhood at all or they have to enter the neighborhood but not the pool area?

In either case I assume they are using them at night or when no residents are there? My first suggestion would be cutting power to these when no resident is there either with a switch or timer. That sounds like it would deter more than license plate cameras.

 

[sam_gordon]

We've had license plate readers for years. I think they were installed after a rash of burglaries.

Jumping to "police state" is a little extreme IMO. Maybe I'm missing it, but what can someone do with the information?

That being said, I agree it's not a deterrent.

 

[kdonnel]

By this:



Do you mean the outlets are external to the clubhouse so they can be used without having to enter the neighborhood at all or they have to enter the neighborhood but not the pool area?

In either case I assume they are using them at night or when no residents are there? My first suggestion would be cutting power to these when no resident is there either with a switch or timer. That sounds like it would deter more than license plate cameras.

They walk about 1500 feet from their property to the club house and plug into outlets on the exterior of the building. They have also jumped the fence to use outlets in the part fenced for the pool.

 

[kdonnel]

We've had license plate readers for years. I think they were installed after a rash of burglaries.

Jumping to "police state" is a little extreme IMO. Maybe I'm missing it, but what can someone do with the information?

That being said, I agree it's not a deterrent.

I just see it as a pointless expense that adds a layer of observation that is totally unnecessary.

I can see it progressing to facial recognition once someone realizes our actual on going problem is with people walking.

 

[Travel60]

We lived in Condo community with license readers. Our cars also had a sticker on the front that operated the entry gates. No issues. After several bike thefts, we also installed cameras and made a few structural changes to harden security. Seemed to work.

As suggested above, remove the temptation of plugging in by putting the outside plugs on a timer or keep them off except when needed. Maybe motion sensitive flood lights?

Any way to gate the two entrances?

 

[barkley]

i'm guessing nothings been done re. the electricity theft b/c it's hard to prove/prosecute but it seems that if that's a primary problem the hoa could look into if locking outlet covers meet code in your area and if so-install some at the pool/club house area. i mean-what do residents really need with access to the outlets? if their electronics need charging they do have their nearby homes to address the need.

allot less costly than a license plate reader which i can't imagine is any more of a deterrent than security cameras are (not much from what i can tell re. crime in our area).

 

[kdonnel]

We lived in Condo community with license readers. Our cars also had a sticker on the front that operated the entry gates. No issues. After several bike thefts, we also installed cameras and made a few structural changes to harden security. Seemed to work.

As suggested above, remove the temptation of plugging in by putting the outside plugs on a timer or keep them off except when needed. Maybe motion sensitive flood lights?

Any way to gate the two entrances?

Extra exterior lights have been installed.

Cameras have been in place for about 5 years at the clubhouse and have not prevented the adjacent property issues.

Gating is a no way. To meet county rules the HOA would have to purchase two homes to create the necessary distance requirements associated with gating. A $7000-$10000 special assessment to each home would be needed to cover the cost of the two homes, reconfiguration, and gates. Plus once gated the county no longer maintains the roads. That would be a huge ongoing HOA expense.

 

[fla4fun]

Sounds like it would be easier to turn off the power to the outlets, except when they are specifically needed by landscape maintenance or other official community use, would be the easiest solution. Should be easy enough to flip the breaker off at the panel. The only concern though would be whether these people would be brazen enough to then use outside outlets on homes instead.

 

[tvguy]

I'm not convinced a plate reader is going to actually make any difference. So it shows a car was there, but it doesn't show the occupants did anything wrong.
Our Neighborhood Watch Facebook page and NextDoor frequently have posts with video showing cars in an area of wrong doing, but the actual wrong doing isn't captured, so nothing can be done.

 

[martikus]

We’ve had cameras for years. Only HOA board has access and they only check video if asked (crime committed). Doesn’t bother
Me at all. And it shouldn’t bother anyone with anything to hide.

A couple years ago they added cameras outside clubhouse due to vandalism
That no one would own up to.

As a homeowner though I’d insist on how they are going to stop the theft of electricity.
Our HOA hires private cop to patrol a few hours a week. If we had your issue he’d be down there busting them. Your HOA should
Be doing something.

 

[HopperFan]

Plate reader seems pointless ~ with all the in and out of strangers to deliver items, work in houses, babysitters, kids' friends, entertaining, housekeepers etc ~ what is a the reader going to do? As you say, an after the fact lots of work and will the police even care to sift through all that information to figure out who was legit. They are really only useful in a controlled situation ~ like HS where my DS works has announced they are installing them but everyone who parks there is registered so it's not a free for all. It's more to track if students leave campus during the day.

Is there any avenue to try to resolve the issue with the property next door? Anything the HOA can do to start a process to address the core problem?

 

[kdonnel]

As a homeowner though I’d insist on how they are going to stop the theft of electricity.
Our HOA hires private cop to patrol a few hours a week. If we had your issue he’d be down there busting them. Your HOA should
Be doing something.

Charging a cell phone from 0-100% costs about 3 cents. The police are not going to get involved.

$55 an hour private security was ruled out due to cost. At a minimum the companies said a neighborhood of our size would need 20-40 hours a week.

The HOA president is ex FBI. He already rides around confronting people which seems some what problematic.

 

[kdonnel]

Is there any avenue to try to resolve the issue with the property next door? Anything the HOA can do to start a process to address the core problem?

The neighborhood has been working with the county police for years.

The level of crime at the property doesn’t add up to enough to get a lot of police attention. Occasionally people living there get busted for crimes done elsewhere.

 

[Boopuff]

Our HOA installed a plate reader at our subdivision entrance. One section of our community is heavily renters. That area has a lot of problems (not that all renters are bad, but the transient nature of that area tends to lure all types of bad behavior). So the readers went up, sure enough a couple of cars were tampered with, stolen cars etc. The car owners were thrilled that the readers were there. They could see plates of people entering. "nope" said the HOA. Seems that they don't have the full thing set up, there's some legal mumbo-jumbo... so all-in-all what the heck is the point. So dumb.

 

[China Expat]

I wish my HOA had license plate readers!

 

[barkley]

The HOA president is ex FBI. He already rides around confronting people which seems some what problematic.

that is nuts. that is the kind of behavior that resulted with physical assaults in my neighborhood, trials and lawsuits-and b/c the president of an hoa is the representative of the association do you know who is on the hook for the legal expenses and any civil penalties? YOU-the homeowners. an hoa's insurer who finds out about this kind of vigilante behavior can cancel coverage and no company will touch it with a ten foot pole.

if this is happening in your hoa i strongly suggest securing your own umbrella insurance policy b/c your personal assets are at risk.

 

[HopperFan]

The neighborhood has been working with the county police for years.

The level of crime at the property doesn’t add up to enough to get a lot of police attention. Occasionally people living there get busted for crimes done elsewhere.

I know police often have their hands tied, I was just wondering if perhaps there are any legal issues that the owner of the property could be impacted with to get their cooperation. Like violations of zoning or ordinances, occupancy or capacity limitations, etc that could force some responsibility on them. If there is no power on at the building I'm assuming it is vacant ~ are there no requirements that could be forced on them. In our town we can go online and file complaints against property owners, maybe if the city got enough ongoing complaints from your neighborhood the local government might step in?

Our HOA installed a plate reader at our subdivision entrance. One section of our community is heavily renters. That area has a lot of problems (not that all renters are bad, but the transient nature of that area tends to lure all types of bad behavior). So the readers went up, sure enough a couple of cars were tampered with, stolen cars etc. The car owners were thrilled that the readers were there. They could see plates of people entering. "nope" said the HOA. Seems that they don't have the full thing set up, there's some legal mumbo-jumbo... so all-in-all what the heck is the point. So dumb.

We had an issue on our street of a number of cars being broken in to one night, and turns out there were lots of neighborhoods that had the same thing happening. Readers would do no good because according to the police they would drop people off on the main road outside the neighborhood so the car was not seen, then they would walk in to break in to the cars etc. They finally got a lead because someone saw the vehicle parked outside a neighborhood and the only other thing they had were seeing them walking on house videos. Plate readers would have done nothing, and most half decent "bad guys" know not to bring their cars into the neighborhood, fastest way to get trapped.