My long night home from EPCOT, those darn double loading buses and the EPCOT boat...

[BillSears]

I just got back from a short trip to WDW for the Food and Wine Festival and MNSSHP. I had a great time.

However one night returning from EPCOT after watching Illuminations I decided to hang back a bit to let the crowd thin out some. I arrived at the Pop Century bus stop at 9:45 and saw 5 ECVs in the line in front of me. I watched a couple buses leave with no tie down spots in use while we made it through the line. Then I saw the first 2 ECVs reach the front of the line. They were not loaded onto the bus that was there(that's 1 bus with no tie downs). A second bus pulled up and double parked next to the first(that's 2 buses). In the mean time 2 more ECVs reach the front of the line. Now we've got 4 ECVs waiting. These buses finish loading and pull away and we wait a while for a third bus to pull up, it's one of the new 3 tie down spots so 3 ECVs start loading. While they're loading the fifth ECV and I both pull up into the front of the line. So 3 ECVs loading, 2 ECVs waiting and a wheelchair. Another bus pulls up and double loads(3 buses pulling away without tie downs in use). The second set of buses pull away and we wait again for a new bus. A new bus eventually pulls up and it's got 2 tie down spaces so the 2 ECVs load. Of course another bus starts double loading(4 buses total with no tie downs in use while ECVs and wheelchairs are waiting). After all of these buses are loaded I'm left at the Pop Century bus stop by myself. Every single person boarded and left. There were 4 buses worth of people in line behind me who I got to watch leave. This really isn't right.

Which brings me to the second part...double loading buses. There were multiple times where I was waiting on a bus to go to the parks and there were more then 3 wheelchair/ECVs waiting for the bus. They would bring a bus into the stop and then bring a second bus. But that darn second bus would double park and not load the wheelchair/ECV. It would do a nice job of clearing out the regular line but it makes it much worse for the wheelchair/ECV line. I was left at the Pop Century bus stop once for this and I saw others left there twice during this trip. Disney needs to stop this practice!!!! Almost all of the double busing could be stopped if they would just stagger the buses better. Every time I saw double loading it was done with a break between buses arriving. They have to stop sending 2 buses at once and instead send 1 bus at a time.

One last thing. Wheelchair and ECV users are no longer allowed to ride on the outside back area of the World Showcase boats. This change really confuses me because for almost 30 years the only place we were allowed to ride was the back of the boat. There is now a spot inside the boat where they have removed some benches and if you use a wheelchair/ECV you MUST go inside if you want to ride. I declined the ride since the only reason I want to ride the boat is to see the World Showcase from the water. I guess I won't be able to enjoy that any more.

 

[SueM in MN]

Wow!
Deja vue!
This is pretty much the same thing that happened to Maroo.
I think this is a well written report to send to WDW.

For the boats, I don't know exactly when they changed or why, but it was that way in April already. They also did not allow strollers out on that deck. I think it might have to do with keeping the aisles clear since they seemed to be policing that quite carefully. I can see not allowing guests with wheelchairs on the side of the deck where the door is, but don't know why they don't allow them opposite the door.

 

[RaySharpton]

Thank you, Bill for the report and experience that you had and I am sorry that you had to wait for so many buses.

I love taking the boat launches at Epcot to DHS, too.

I love the water view being outside boats because it seems so relaxing and beautiful on the water. That's to bad they have changed that policy.

May I ask you three questions?

1. What does the bus stop at Pop Century look like now? When I was their in May, they had the white box on the left side of the line and it was not in the main line at that time with the chains blocking off the main line like in my photo below. It did look like to me that the chain could have easily been moved to be mainlined, but the box seemed like that it would have been in a weird place in line if they did this.

2. Can you tell me about the buses that now have three spaces for wheelchairs/mobility scooters and what they look like?

3. Can you tell me your own personal experience or opinion about the Epcot/Pop Century bus stop at Epcot? I always recall that there was no space between the Epcot/Pop bus stop at Epcot and the next bus stop for a couple of years. In other words, when the time of day was slow, and no people in the Epcot/Pop bus stop line at Epcot, I would enter the "adjacent" bus stop entrance line to which is to left side of the Pop line to get to the wheelchair/mobility scooter unmarked space. Normally if this "adjacent" bus stop was occupied, I just entered the Pop main line. And I have seen the photos of other posters, but their photos do not show what I am taling about the space between the Epcot/Pop bus stop and the adjacent bus stop. What do you remember about this? I know this line changed when they added resorts and squeezed the bus stops together. I also remember last May that they added a separate chain at the front of the Epcot/Pop line on the left side. And in my opinion at the time I saw this chain, I thought that WDW has never allowed anyone but castmembers to manipulate, open or close chains. Or am I just not remembering correctly. Which is entirely possible knowing me and not remembering things. But I really recall this since going to Epcot so often from Pop in the past.

I enjoy reading all of your posts/threads, too.

And I enjoy reading everyone's posts and photos about their experiences and opinions.

 

[Andrew Bichard]

For the boats, I don't know exactly when they changed or why, but it was that way in April already.

I was staying at Boardwalk in October 2009 and wheelchairs were already banned from riding outside on the Epcot/Studios route 'for safety reasons'. There was also a two wheelchair per boat limit in force.

This rule was not enforced consistently, so maybe it was newly introduced and not all boat crews were aware.

Crews were allowing huge 'hummer' style strollers on the outside deck, which were much larger than my wheelchair... I am not certain why the new rules don't appy to them too.

I might also add, that were a Friendship boat to sink, I would be much better off on the outside deck where I could float right off out of my chair rather than be trapped inside the cabin. (I may not be able to walk, but I float like a cork!!!)

Andrew

 

[SueM in MN]

In April and this October, guests with strollers were also told their strollers needed to be placed inside in that same space. That led to one trip on April where the space on one side was occupied by 2 large open strollers and a couple of smaller ones. The space on the other side of the aisle was occupied by my DD in her wheelchair, a person using an ECV and a bunch of folded umbrella strollers ( since the area we were in was most visible, that's where people went. There was not room for us to stand by DD. A CM did ask those with the bigger strollers to make more room. They pushed them a little closer together, but did not fold them. By that time, the boat was full.

The buses with 3 wheelchair/ECV tiedown spots look very much like the buses with only 2. The difference is that there are 2 fold up seats across from the back door like the other buses, but there is an additional fold up seat in front of the back door. I have pictures, but not online.

I did post some pictures of the OKW Epcot bus stop in another of the bus threads. Bus stops 1-8 at Epcot all had metal bar lines, not fancy like the one in the picture before this post. Some of them had chains that could be opened to let a guest with a wheelchair or ECV out of the line. The one for OKW was solid across the sides and the front, so once you got into the line, the only options were to continue going forward until reaching the opening at the front door of the bus or backing out. There was no painted wheelchair box when we were there earlier in October. The SSR bus stop was right next to OKW and was similar, although it may have had some extra chained 'escape' areas.

I don't remember which park it was right now, but we were in line to return to OKW (I think it was the Studio). The driver had us pass by the 14 or 15 people ahead of us in line since there was no chained area for us to go to so he could board us first.

 

[Bete]

has to do with bigger crowds after fireworks and such. Closing times are another bad time for this practice. Most of the time this has been our experience. I know it doesn't seem fair that they take regular passengers and sometimes they don't take the handicap line people when these extra buses come. We have been in this predicament, as well.

It's part of their crowd control, I believe, and they need to do it in a hurry; so, this seems to be what Disney does at those peak times. I believe their rule on buses is that one should appear like every 15 to 20 minutes and I suppose if they do a bus sooner they don't feel obliged to help out the handicap line. Also, I believe there are times it probably wouldn't be safe to load on these buses when they are double parked, etc.

I don't have a good answer to this circumstance, but through the years I know it's just going to be a big, waiting game after peak time periods for buses. For that reason we have taken our car at times. It's not fun that way, either, but at least we are all sitting, etc.

 

[LGH1946]

I love WDW and I have been a total of 21 times from my home in Georgia. Since I have had knee surgery, I have had some unpleasant experiences. The main thing I have to complain about is the distance from the handicapped parking to the parks. The only one that is pretty close is HS. The other 3 parks are about a mile. I can walk pretty well, just not all day. So I always rent an ECV when I get in the park. I usually ride the bus but this year we rented a car because the bus steps are pretty hard for me to go up. And after hearing the horror stories from the hadicapped who have their own wheel chairs or ECV's I hope I never have to use the bus again. Some people were sitting at the bus stops through numerous buses before they were loaded. I just wonder how some extremely handicapped people who don't have anyone who is able to push them from the parking lot in the available wheelchairs to the rental place in the parks can even make it. It just makes no sense to me that the trams can take the people right to the entrances but the handicapped have to go so much further. I know there are many people on the DIS who sympathize with handicapped people but there are also quite a few who don't. But, you know, handicapped people like Disney world, too and should be not be made to feel bad about needing a little more convenience.

 

[LGH1946]

I must add one more comment. To charge people $50.00 to rent an ECV is disgraceful.!!

 

[SueM in MN]

The distance walking from the handicapped parking lots to the park entrances is one of the reasons this board (and WDW also) recommends that guests who do not have their own mobility device and are to step up to get onto the parking lot tram should park in the regular lot and use the tram.
CMs do save some spots near the end of the line, closest to where the tram picks up. Someone doing that will almost always have a shorter walk than parking in handicapped parking.
It's too bad they don't get the word put out more about that. Many people find out when they park there and have to walk.

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

Bill; sorry to hear about your experience. This was too predictable when the policy change was announced. Write in about it. It's been obvious that's the way to change things, the sour grapes on some of the board-first-whine-topics sure have proven that one! I am surprised about the double loading busses. Not them being there -have been seeing them way too long-, but about those drivers not "soliciting" for possible guests with mobility aids waiting in line. Even if you weren't visable for the driver of the second bus because you now stood in line and not in the more visable spot besides the line, the first bus driver KNOWS you and the ECV's were there. How difficult is it to signal your collegue driver there are guests with a mobility aid in the front of the line? This really does surprise me. I've only encountered double bus loading with the driver of bus2 always checking if there's any guests with mobility aids waiting. Looking, signaling, walking from bus to line, I've seen all kinds of options but allways making the effort. At the resorts and parks alike, I might add. It can be a little more problematic to load onto bus2 at parkclosing and with busses at all stops, but I've seen it done on a few occasions. Heck, just a simple sign of "we know you're there, working on getting you back a.s.a.p" instead of a solo focus on quick-quick-quick and leaving Bill solo at the bus stop. or were they planning a surprise VIP transport for you with Mickey driving you and Minny keeping you company?




As for the "WDW is not handicap friendly"? I've decided not to cause havoc on Bills topic. Took some time, so to say, but soit. All I can say is; a shame. That and the sincere offer, kinda like the offer I always extend whenever a topic is opened about "those darn wheelchairusers and their perks"; feel welcome to come and join me. Experience things through my eyes. Or in this particular subject; what do I see and experience that makes me conclude that while not perfect and with a faux pas bus policy change, WDW is one of the -if not the- most welcoming and friendly place in the world for anybody regardless of disability, health, age, sex, size, whatever.

 

[Mrsjvb]

I must add one more comment. To charge people $50.00 to rent an ECV is disgraceful.!!

Why?! they cost money to maintain and operate. there are limited numbers of ECVs availsable at any given time and so are a precious commodity. Supply and demand.

the price of renting a double stroller ain't exactly cheap either.

 

[disney david]

I love WDW and I have been a total of 21 times from my home in Georgia. Since I have had knee surgery, I have had some unpleasant experiences. The main thing I have to complain about is the distance from the handicapped parking to the parks. The only one that is pretty close is HS. The other 3 parks are about a mile. I can walk pretty well, just not all day. So I always rent an ECV when I get in the park. I usually ride the bus but this year we rented a car because the bus steps are pretty hard for me to go up. And after hearing the horror stories from the hadicapped who have their own wheel chairs or ECV's I hope I never have to use the bus again. Some people were sitting at the bus stops through numerous buses before they were loaded. I just wonder how some extremely handicapped people who don't have anyone who is able to push them from the parking lot in the available wheelchairs to the rental place in the parks can even make it. It just makes no sense to me that the trams can take the people right to the entrances but the handicapped have to go so much further. I know there are many people on the DIS who sympathize with handicapped people but there are also quite a few who don't. But, you know, handicapped people like Disney world, too and should be not be made to feel bad about needing a little more convenience.

I am sorry to hear that i dont think any one has the right to make anyone else feel bad for any reason. I wish people would just stop worrying about what other people are doing. Just to let you know that disney got two new kinds of bus that dont have any steps there a little step from the curd to bus but not like the old buse. I wouldnt even call it a step up just a little higher then the sidewalk so mybe you could give them a try. PLus disney bus driver will be more then happy to put the ramp down so it be plush with the side walk. You have valid complaints but disney is handicap freindly their some place they need to work on but they have the new buses that dont have steps. Mybe you will give the new buses a try next trip and they make it eaiser for you even if it just a short ride.

 

[POOHsie]

On the pontoon boat that goes from POR to DTD, I used to pull my scooter straight in, then across the aisle, then straight to the far wall. Now I have to go in, turn a sharp right to the middle aisle, and go in sharp left to the space one row up. You have no idea that every time I do this I take a few layers off the sides of my scooter. All those seating frames are metal and that maneuvering is not realistic (not to mention, everyone seems to be watching). Mine is only a medium size scooter. There are ones even wider/longer. It's a "crock of stuff" what we are expected to do with these machines on these pontoon boats.

 

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

Here's my take on this and I want to say I have no problem with the load wheelchair and EVC first policy. I have seen times where they are double loading buses, and the way the second bus gets parked there is not enough space for them to open the rear doors or extend a ramp or lift. I realize that it must suck for those in EVC and wheelchairs to see people boarding a bus before them but keep in mind it takes less time to fill a bus with able-bodied people then it does to load then it does loading one at a time. The second bus is often out of there before the first bus even begins loading regular passengers.

 

[cm8]

Here's my take on this and I want to say I have no problem with the load wheelchair and EVC first policy. I have seen times where they are double loading buses, and the way the second bus gets parked there is not enough space for them to open the rear doors or extend a ramp or lift. I realize that it must suck for those in EVC and wheelchairs to see people boarding a bus before them but keep in mind it takes less time to fill a bus with able-bodied people then it does to load then it does loading one at a time. The second bus is often out of there before the first bus even begins loading regular passengers.

 

[pampam]

Here's my take on this and I want to say I have no problem with the load wheelchair and EVC first policy. I have seen times where they are double loading buses, and the way the second bus gets parked there is not enough space for them to open the rear doors or extend a ramp or lift. I realize that it must suck for those in EVC and wheelchairs to see people boarding a bus before them but keep in mind it takes less time to fill a bus with able-bodied people then it does to load then it does loading one at a time. The second bus is often out of there before the first bus even begins loading regular passengers.

And your point is?

Just because abled bodied load faster, is no reason to discriminate against the disabled.

If they would stop sending out busses 2 at a time, busses would not be double parked. It could be 1st come, 1st served if they staggered the busses.

 

[bedogged]

Do you all think that it might cause a change in policy if those who have waited for several buses to no avail would call Disney Transportation from the bus stop and complain?

 

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

And your point is?

Just because abled bodied load faster, is no reason to discriminate against the disabled.

If they would stop sending out busses 2 at a time, busses would not be double parked. It could be 1st come, 1st served if they staggered the busses.

I'm sorry you didn't get my point. I believe the reason they park buses like that when they double load them is a few years ago they had a problem with the breaks on a bus and it rolled into the buss in front of it (it has something to do with the air that they use for the breaks is fed from the same tank as the one used for the lift to raise and lower the bus, which is common with all low floor buses not just the ones Disney has). So they do it that way now for safety reasons. Also when you have a large crowed of people leaving a park at once and the ques for the buss is way past full they will always send another bus to help get rid of the crowd regardless of there being wheelchairs waiting.

Another thing that I mentioned in my previous post was about how they park the buses it would be imposable and unsafe to load anyone through the back door as they would be opening right beside the first bus.

I realize that there are people that may not agree with how they do this but this is one thing that complaining to them won't help with. Just suck it up and wait for the next bus like the rest of the tired masses. The only thing you have in a wheelchair or EVC in that case is a seat.

 

[BillSears]

The double loading of buses is semi understandable when it is at park closing and buses are loading as fast as they can. I don't like it then but I understand it.

My big problem is when you wait 15 minutes with no bus at all then 2 buses arrive and they do the double loading at the resort bus stops. If there are more then 2 wheelchair/ECV users waiting then they get left behind while everyone else gets to go to the parks. This did happen to me once where I was left behind on the way to the parks and I saw it happen to others when they were behind me in line at the resort bus stop.

If they would stagger the resort buses instead of sending 2 resort buses at once this wouldn't happen.

BTW I also had a great bus driver who didn't double load. I was headed to DHS and there were 2 ECVs in front of me in line. A bus pulled up for DHS and started loading. Then a second bus pulled up for DHS. Instead of double loading this second bus stayed back until the first bus pulled away. Then the driver pulled into the normal loading spot so I could load with the rest of the passengers. I made sure to thank her for waiting instead of double loading and she told me that she didn't think it was right to double load and leave wheelchair/ECV users behind. So she always tries to not double load when possible.

 

[RaySharpton]

BTW I also had a great bus driver who didn't double load. I was headed to DHS and there were 2 ECVs in front of me in line. A bus pulled up for DHS and started loading. Then a second bus pulled up for DHS. Instead of double loading this second bus stayed back until the first bus pulled away. Then the driver pulled into the normal loading spot so I could load with the rest of the passengers. I made sure to thank her for waiting instead of double loading and she told me that she didn't think it was right to double load and leave wheelchair/ECV users behind. So she always tries to not double load when possible.

I have met a couple of nice bus drivers that have done the same thing and told me the same thing, too, Bill.