Multiple Memberships

[bumbershoot]

She also has the most amount of pride I have ever seen in someone so I think there is a matter of principle here as well. I believe her exact words were “they will make an ice-skating ring out of hell before I take my name off the deed“ LOL!

I don’t equate pride with keeping her name on the deed.

Keeping your feet to the fire seems more like what she’s doing. And as righteous as I’m sure that feels for her, and as guilty as I get the feeling you feel, it’s not actually righteous or right.

You said that they are selling around the same price per point as what? As what they originally sold for?

Oh sorry. As each other. I was expecting Aulani to have a higher resale per point price, and therefore expected your 100 Aulani points to be around the same *total* cost as the 160 AK points. But the 100 Aulani contract and 160 AK contract I saw (which was wild that both were up there like that) were about 105 and 107 per point.

You've mentioned her getting the short end of the stick several times. It sounds a lot like she is perhaps entitled to one of the contracts but whatever you decide either you need to settle the issue of the existing membership in one way or another or learn to work with 2 memberships because you don't want to add a new contract to the existing membership.

Agreed.

Really, I want you to be able to enjoy your DVC and your new family, and I think the best way for you to do that will be to find a way to cut this tie with your ex completely...

Same.

Split the contracts so your ex has one in her name only and you have one in your name only. You could even offer to continue giving her money for the annual dues if you want.

Agreed.

OP you could consider it contract-long alimony. I mean, I only get 5 years alimony, and we were married just under 15 years, so she’s definitely getting that longer than I am, but seems like it’s been working so far.

It’s still not your responsibility to repay her for whatever you did 10 years ago. But you’re being kind, and that’s, well, kind of you. Despite the suddenness of it all, financially my ex has been kind, and has gone above and beyond the legal requirements. And that’s lovely. But it is time to separate those deeds out. IMO.



DIS counseling sessions are the best. People here helped me decide to keep Dvc last year, and I’m so glad they did.

 

[ThinkBelieveDream&Dare]

I don’t equate pride with keeping her name on the deed.

Keeping your feet to the fire seems more like what she’s doing. And as righteous as I’m sure that feels for her, and as guilty as I get the feeling you feel, it’s not actually righteous or right.

OP you could consider it contract-long alimony. I mean, I only get 5 years alimony, and we were married just under 15 years, so she’s definitely getting that longer than I am, but seems like it’s been working so far.

It’s still not your responsibility to repay her for whatever you did 10 years ago. But you’re being kind, and that’s, well, kind of you. Despite the suddenness of it all, financially my ex has been kind, and has gone above and beyond the legal requirements. And that’s lovely. But it is time to separate those deeds out. IMO.

DIS counseling sessions are the best. People here helped me decide to keep Dvc last year, and I’m so glad they did.

@bumbershoot I absolutely agree with everything you've written.
Sadly it seems the OP has such remorse (whether justified or not) that, instead of making amends for whatever happened all those years ago, forgiving himself and moving forward, he's punishing himself and his new family.

It's almost like @Pluto 32 has dug himself a deep hole in which he's become so comfortable that he's thrown away the shovel

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

OP, you made a terrible financial decision and you aren’t going to get out of it without spending more money. Either give her the AKL contract and keep the AUL contract, or give her the money you were planning on spending on the new contract to sign the sold ones over to you. Tell her you will take it to court if she won’t cooperate. Who cares if she can’t afford the dues? That is her problem.

And don’t respond to this with “I don’t want to...”. Of course you don’t want to give up any points or money. But you made a bad choice and the ramifications of that are that you are going to have to make a sacrifice to fix it.

 

[Pluto 32]

You can solve this cheaply. Go to your local magistrate (small claims court) and tell the clerk that you need to file to compel the other party in a commonly held deed to sell. The clerk should have all the paperwork you need. You will likely need copies of the deeds at the time of filing. No lawyer needed in small claims court. The court will serve notice on her to appear for a hearing. You'll go to the hearing, present the deeds showing both names are on the deeds, and paperwork showing where the money came from to purchase, and where the money came from that paid the maintenance fees. The judge will hear her side, and likely will ask you to agree to pay her 1/2 of the current value of the AK deed less her unpaid 1/2 of the maintenance fees. If you aren't prepared to pay that, he will order one or both contracts sold, and will leave the case open pending her receiving a check.

The reason you can go into small claims court is because the value of her half of the AK deed less the unpaid 1/2 of maintenance fees for 10 years is less than the maximum limit on small claims in most jurisdictions (in mine, it's $12k).

This all makes sense but I currently live in Virginia and she in California so that complicates things. I’m hoping we can come to some sort of agreement without having to go to court.

 

[Pluto 32]

OP, I apologize in advance if this sounds too harsh, and if I am reading too much into your personal life. Really, I want you to be able to enjoy your DVC and your new family, and I think the best way for you to do that will be to find a way to cut this tie with your ex completely... I don’t know your situation, but it sounds awful, and will probably only get worse until you take steps to address it. You said the past is in the past, but it’s haunting you now, and that’s partly because you’re letting it. It sounds like you feel a lot of guilt and obligation to your ex. My gut reaction is that you are both adults and should not be responsible for each others’ choices/actions anymore (like worrying about how she will pay for the annual dues). Maybe what you need to do now is make amends for her getting the short end of the stick back then. Like I said though, I don’t know your specific situation.

Do you still have a joint bank account now? How did you split that money up?
Do you have any children with your ex?
You said your ex has used the points about 20% of the time. When was the last time she did? Does she really still want to use DVC for vacations, or is this more for spite?
What did she and you agree to when you split up - how did you two decide to handle your DVC points?

Options:

1. Consult a lawyer or mediator to learn about your specific options. Will any offer a free consultation?
2. Keep your contracts as is and add a 3rd under a new membership number - and deal with that hassle, as well as the continuing stress of your ex and the strain on your marriage and family, as well as the future complications for your heirs.
3. Split the contracts so your ex has one in her name only and you have one in your name only. You could even offer to continue giving her money for the annual dues if you want.
4. Sell both contracts and split the proceeds with your ex. Use your part to buy a larger contract in your own name.
5. Pay her a sum for her portion of the contracts so she takes her name off the deeds and you keep both.

No matter what, I think you will have to pay something, and probably more than you want. But even if you keep everything as is, that is still costing you something, so you have to decide what that is worth.

We no longer have a joint bank account that was dissolved a long time ago and there was not much money in it when I was closed.

We have no children together.

The last time she used points was last year when she took her mom to Hawaii for her 60th birthday. What time before that was the previous year in Florida for a Star Wars convention. Prior to that it will has been several years and she has used any points.

She definitely wants to keep her name on the deed so she has a legal right to use the points but there’s definitely some spite in there as well. I think in her mind she feels like she surrendered everything and this is the last bit of something she has and she’ll be damned if she’s going to give that away.

I offered her multiple options the first one being that she just takes her name off of the deed and she still gets to continue using the points as she has been. I also offered to buy her out of half of the animal kingdom contract which she also was not interested in. She is not interested in taking any sort of payment to take her name off of the deed because she wants to hang on to the right to use it. I have not presented the option of taking my name off the deed because technically she would need to pay me half of what the contract cost and obviously that’s not going to happen.

I may just need to surrender the AK contract to her completely by taking my name off of it and then take her name off the AUL contract. Then I can come by in the AUL contract with whatever I decide to purchase on the resale market. I have not presented this option to her. It just sucks that I would be giving up my rate to 160 points per year. Either way this may be the best option to split the legality tie between us.

Your option number five was my preferred option but she will have nothing to do with it.

 

[Pluto 32]

You are getting a lot of good advice here. As I am sure you are aware being a current owner, there are many more restrictions in place for the resale market today if you don't have a direct or grandfathered contract on your membership. I don't think its as easy as just having to manage two separate memberships. I think you would have less rights on the new contract than what you are used to. Someone else who has this situation may be able to weigh in. Something has to give. Wish you luck as you figure this out.

I realize that under resell contracts you can only use the existing 14 resorts but are you saying that there would be issues trying to combine points from a direct DVC purchase with points on a resale purchase even if it is under the same membership and use year?

 

[Pluto 32]

OP, you made a terrible financial decision and you aren’t going to get out of it without spending more money. Either give her the AKL contract and keep the AUL contract, or give her the money you were planning on spending on the new contract to sign the sold ones over to you. Tell her you will take it to court if she won’t cooperate. Who cares if she can’t afford the dues? That is her problem.

And don’t respond to this with “I don’t want to...”. Of course you don’t want to give up any points or money. But you made a bad choice and the ramifications of that are that you are going to have to make a sacrifice to fix it.

At the time when we were together it didn’t seem like a terrible financial decision but as the years have passed yes I have been playing the really nice guy and I think that needs to stop. 10 years is a long time for me to allow the past to keep being hung over my head. I realize she got the shorter end of the stick when the relationship dissolved but for how many years do I have to be punished? Haven’t I paid my penance? If my sentence is to continue to pay membership dues for the rest of the life of this contract I think that is a little excessive not to mention it would be more costly to do that then to just take my name off the deed completely at this point.

 

[CarolMN]

....(snip)........

I may just need to surrender the AK contract to her completely by taking my name off of it and then take her name off the AUL contract. Then I can come by in the AUL contract with whatever I decide to purchase on the resale market. I have not presented this option to her. It just sucks that I would be giving up my rate to 160 points per year. Either way this may be the best option to split the legality tie between us..........

AFAIK, you cannot change the title at all without both signatures. You MAY be able to take your name off (but I doubt it since DVC will want to keep both of you on the hook for dues), but you definitely cannot take her name off with our her signature or a court order.

 

[Pluto 32]

AFAIK, you cannot change the title at all without both signatures. You MAY be able to take your name off (but I doubt it since DVC will want to keep both of you on the hook for dues), but you definitely cannot take her name off with our her signature or a court order.

You have to forgive me because I don’t know what all of the acronyms everybody is using me and all the time. Haha!

Any change to the title will require both signatures. Doing so will require a title company to perform these actions which again cost even more money.

She may be open to allowing me to take my name off of AK without having her buy me out and I’d like to think she would be open to taking her name off of a UL without buying her out because she knows she I paid for all of it.

Then again she may not even be willing to let me take my name off of AK because then she knows she’s on the hook for the membership dues.

I pointed out that in the 10 years I’ve been paying a membership dues it has almost equaled the original price of the contract itself! Of course that fact went absolutely nowhere except for more finger-pointing about all the damage that was done 10 years ago and who got the shorter end of the stick.

For someone who tells me to move forward with the future she makes it very difficult when she keeps bringing up the past and hanging over my head and beating me with it. Haha!

 

[CarolMN]

AFAIK = As Far As I Know

 

[Dean]

AFAIK, you cannot change the title at all without both signatures. You MAY be able to take your name off (but I doubt it since DVC will want to keep both of you on the hook for dues), but you definitely cannot take her name off with our her signature or a court order.

Or a court order.

 

[Marionnette]

I realize that under resell contracts you can only use the existing 14 resorts but are you saying that there would be issues trying to combine points from a direct DVC purchase with points on a resale purchase even if it is under the same membership and use year?

The current restrictions would prevent you from combining direct points with post-January 2019 resale points in order to make a reservation at one of the new DVC resort. Beginning with Riviera and going forward with new resorts, any new resale purchasers cannot use their resale points for reservations at those resorts. Resale points can still be combined with direct points to book a reservation at one of the original 14 DVC resorts.

 

[Marionnette]

This all makes sense but I currently live in Virginia and she in California so that complicates things. I’m hoping we can come to some sort of agreement without having to go to court.

If you’re in VA and she is in CA, it might work out better for each of you if you were to take the AKV contract and she takes the AUL, even though technically she has a greater claim to the AKV.

I know that you keep repeating that you don’t want to go to court or pay a lawyer to iron this out. But sometimes just retaining a lawyer to send a strongly worded letter on their firm’s letterhead is enough to convince a reluctant party to settle out of court.

 

[katandmouse]

Man, this sucks! Good for you for trying to deal with it all now though.

It sounds like your best (only?) option at this point would be to split the contracts. Maybe she would want the AUL one since she lives closer to there?

With her using the points recently, I wouldn’t worry so much about continuing to pay her share of the dues. You already have for 10 years. It was her choice to walk away from your relationship with “the short end of the stick.” It’s her choice now to keep using those points.* I think splitting the contracts is fair enough, and you can be done with it. Or maybe, once she realizes she would have to pay the dues going forward, she would change her mind and accept a payment for taking her name off the deeds.

But she does have a say... If she won’t agree to anything with you, you may have to retain a lawyer or go to court. I liked CraigInPA’s idea about small claims court/local magistrate. I don’t know how exactly that works though.

As far as a new resale contract, you would keep your membership perks with whichever direct contract you keep. You could use those direct points to stay at a new resort (Riviera or future) but not your new resale points. Other than that, I believe that combining direct or resale points works the same way.

Best of luck! I hope she will agree to something.

*ETA, what I mean is, if she really wants to keep DVC as her right and as her part of the split from your relationship, then it should be her responsibility to maintain that contract from now on.

 

[katandmouse]

The current restrictions would prevent you from combining direct points with post-January 2019 resale points in order to make a reservation at one of the new DVC resort. Beginning with Riviera and going forward with new resorts, any new resale purchasers cannot use their resale points for reservations at those resorts. Resale points can still be combined with direct points to book a reservation at one of the original 14 DVC resorts.

If you’re in VA and she is in CA, it might work out better for each of you if you were to take the AKV contract and she takes the AUL, even though technically she has a greater claim to the AKV.

I know that you keep repeating that you don’t want to go to court or pay a lawyer to iron this out. But sometimes just retaining a lawyer to send a strongly worded letter on their firm’s letterhead is enough to convince a reluctant party to settle out of court.

Cross posted! Agree, agree

 

[Deb & Bill]

Is your current wife/relationship okay with you spending money on your ex's vacations? You don't want to mess up your current relationship just to be the nice guy in the whole deal.

So be the big guy in the deal and tell the ex you are going to remove your name from both contracts. It will mean she is on the hook for all and any maintenance fees henceforward. See what she says/does.

 

[KPeterso]

You have to forgive me because I don’t know what all of the acronyms everybody is using me and all the time. Haha!

Any change to the title will require both signatures. Doing so will require a title company to perform these actions which again cost even more money.

She may be open to allowing me to take my name off of AK without having her buy me out and I’d like to think she would be open to taking her name off of a UL without buying her out because she knows she I paid for all of it.

Then again she may not even be willing to let me take my name off of AK because then she knows she’s on the hook for the membership dues.

I pointed out that in the 10 years I’ve been paying a membership dues it has almost equaled the original price of the contract itself! Of course that fact went absolutely nowhere except for more finger-pointing about all the damage that was done 10 years ago and who got the shorter end of the stick.

For someone who tells me to move forward with the future she makes it very difficult when she keeps bringing up the past and hanging over my head and beating me with it. Haha!

Wow is all I have to say. One option on removing yourself from one of the contracts and making her responsible for the annual dues. You said she is not using a huge portion of the points, so she can always rent out the points she is not using and that will more than cover her annual dues! But moving forward, she needs to pay towards the annual dues.

 

[Pluto 32]

So be the big guy in the deal and tell the ex you are going to remove your name from both contracts. It will mean she is on the hook for all and any maintenance fees henceforward. See what she says/does.

I believe she has to agree to even take my name off of the deeds as any change in the title of the contract will require both of our signatures.

 

[Deb & Bill]

I believe she has to agree to even take my name off of the deeds as any change in the title of the contract will require both of our signatures.

So tell her you are offering to take your name off the deeds and she can have both of them. Or else you are going to let them be foreclosed. Unless she wants to split them up. You can't just give her what she wants. I'm starting to think you don't really want to be rid of her because everything everyone suggests is too expensive or too mean to her.

 

[Pluto 32]

So tell her you are offering to take your name off the deeds and she can have both of them. Or else you are going to let them be foreclosed. Unless she wants to split them up. You can't just give her what she wants. I'm starting to think you don't really want to be rid of her because everything everyone suggests is too expensive or too mean to her.

What I want is for her to take her name off of the deeds. I don’t want to get rid of my DVC contracts. I’ve dumped way too much money into them to just throw them away give them to her.