MK Bus wheelchair/ECV at closing

[Evita_W]

A simple solution for on the way to the parks is to document it and report it to the front desk, best if you have video of the driver refusing. Generally the front desk will then call an accessible Minnie Van and pay for it. DH read one story where a lady kept getting refused constantly and was so much in tears that the front desk comped an accessible Minnie Van for her entire stay. Obviously that isn't sustainable if this happens too much, but once Disney starts loosing enough money on it, they will come up with a sustainable solution.

As for parties with too many people, the rules need to be enforced, obviously occasional exceptions made for those with young children, etc. But person using the mobility device + 3 additional companions seems perfectly reasonable.

 

[lanejudy]

A simple solution for on the way to the parks is to document it and report it to the front desk, best if you have video of the driver refusing.

Absolutely in a situation where the driver refuses to load a mobility device!

But I think the more common challenge at resorts is those with multiple stops and a guest may have been first to the stop but is unable to board because the wheelchair spots are already taken -- either by guests boarding at an earlier stop or guests returning from the park who exit the bus at a later stop.

 

[serenitynow]

A simple solution for on the way to the parks is to document it and report it to the front desk, best if you have video of the driver refusing. Generally the front desk will then call an accessible Minnie Van and pay for it. DH read one story where a lady kept getting refused constantly and was so much in tears that the front desk comped an accessible Minnie Van for her entire stay. Obviously that isn't sustainable if this happens too much, but once Disney starts loosing enough money on it, they will come up with a sustainable solution.

As for parties with too many people, the rules need to be enforced, obviously occasional exceptions made for those with young children, etc. But person using the mobility device + 3 additional companions seems perfectly reasonable.

If nothing else, snap a picture of the back of the bus with your phone, so if you decide to report it later, they can identify the bus driver. They need to know if they need additional ADA training for cast members

 

[Evita_W]

Absolutely in a situation where the driver refuses to load a mobility device!

But I think the more common challenge at resorts is those with multiple stops and a guest may have been first to the stop but is unable to board because the wheelchair spots are already taken -- either by guests boarding at an earlier stop or guests returning from the park who exit the bus at a later stop.

Generally, we have found at those situations, the driver has been willing to call for another driver, now if someone who is not in a wheelchair is in those spots, we have had drivers try to refuse to ask them to move, but we politely remind them that they are supposed to move and the bus driver will usually ask them to move. One time when DH was getting on the bus, the people sitting there said not and the bus driver gave them two options: move or get off the bus and if they got off the bus, they would not be allowed on any other bus that day, that seemed a bit excessive even to DH, so DH's guess is that these people had already been rude to the bus driver previously and he was using it to try to get them off the bus, but they then moved. Either that or he had a lot of rude passengers that day and was fed up.

 

[Evita_W]

If nothing else, snap a picture of the back of the bus with your phone, so if you decide to report it later, they can identify the bus driver. They need to know if they need additional ADA training for cast members

A very good suggestion indeed.

 

[Mirabell Rose]

This really is the most practical and streamlined way. The only benefit to making people in ECVs struggle through the standard queue is to keep some able-bodied people from getting butthurt. Preventing the occasional instance where someone in a wheelchair gets on with little or no wait while walking people have to wait significantly longer doesn't justify all the rigmarole.

I remember on another forum a few years ago, some able-bodied person suggested segregated buses for the disabled. They literally said, "Wouldn't they be more comfortable with their own kind anyway?" I wish people could hear themselves sometimes.

Completely agree. Great post.

 

[Mirabell Rose]

So what are expecting Disney to do? Have buses that only hold scooters or wheelchairs? Or if there are scooters waiting for the next bus, no one else can board? That no one who showed up after you did should be able get on a bus until you’re able to?

What to do? If a transportation system has a limited number of chair spots then they have a separate line for chairs. When the bus arrives, that line is loaded first until capacity for chairs, and then non chairs load. When disembarking, non chairs disembark first and chairs last. That was the original start of the post.

 

[elvispursley]

Absolutely in a situation where the driver refuses to load a mobility device!

But I think the more common challenge at resorts is those with multiple stops and a guest may have been first to the stop but is unable to board because the wheelchair spots are already taken -- either by guests boarding at an earlier stop or guests returning from the park who exit the bus at a later stop.

We stayed at OKW last fall, Which has 5 stops! We knew this when we booked but made sure to ask for a room on the 1st or 2nd stop. We made sure we had this when we checked in (as well as making sure we had a goring floor). We did get the 2nd stop and thankfully had no issues with the bus being already loaded with scooters. We did Have to wait for another bus when leaving Epcot one night but the driver of the 1sr bus called for another. It arrived within 5 min and we had it to ourselves since everyone else got packed in like sardines!

 

[OurBigTrip]

What to do? If a transportation system has a limited number of chair spots then they have a separate line for chairs. When the bus arrives, that line is loaded first until capacity for chairs, and then non chairs load. When disembarking, non chairs disembark first and chairs last. That was the original start of the post.

Then we’ll just agree to disagree. I agree that a chair should board before others get on the bus, but I don’t think chairs should be able totally skip the line for the bus when there is a long line.

 

[DisneyOma]

Honestly, having a separate line for scooters and wheelchairs makes the most sense and don't ever require them to wait in the standard queue. Sometimes they will get on faster than everyone else and sometimes they won't, but it balances out in the end. But if people are waiting at the bus stop, I think the next bus should arrive before the bus that just loaded can leave, yes this means there needs to be a lot more buses.

Except the way the queues are designed at the parks, there's way too much human and bus traffic to have multiple families with a mobility device wait at the curb. The accessibility queues would need to be designed to be much larger and longer.

This really is the most practical and streamlined way. The only benefit to making people in ECVs struggle through the standard queue is to keep some able-bodied people from getting butthurt. Preventing the occasional instance where someone in a wheelchair gets on with little or no wait while walking people have to wait significantly longer doesn't justify all the rigmarole.

I remember on another forum a few years ago, some able-bodied person suggested segregated buses for the disabled. They literally said, "Wouldn't they be more comfortable with their own kind anyway?" I wish people could hear themselves sometimes.

It's not about that at all - it's to keep crowds away from the curb, especially during the super chaotic busy times. Picture multiple families with ECVs, small children, etc, about the curb area and dozens of buses pulling in and out, at night. Keeping people in the queues until the last row keeps them safe. The parks do this at closing, but at more quiet times, ECVs go right to the curb.

 

[AprilsZoo]

We could not get out to go to spot until we were at almost the very front of the line. So then I had to try to load with the aisles packed full, people upset that they originally had a seat and then had to give it up, etc. And again, every person without a wheelchair/ECV has every spot available to them on the bus but the wheelchair users always have a limit of 2.

HA parking is set as a percentage of spots. No, a store doesn’t have to add more for an occasional overage. But even when all those spots are empty, they can’t let non handicapped park in them.

For busses, they have designated 6 seats for handicapped. (Two flip ups of 3) They can fill them with non wheel chairs, but only if no wheel chairs are waiting when the bus is loading. Thus, the bus can not leave a chair sitting at the stop so long as they have one of those spots not filled with a chair. This the ‘wait in the regular que’ serves no purpose, as the only wait for spots for those in a chair is for the 2 available slots. Chairs always have to take priority over people for those 2 slots. That is how the bus can load people who come after the chairs over the chairs.

Sometimes those flip up seats have disabled people sitting in them— that is their designated use after all. Keeping that in mind, and the fact that moving those persons may not be possible, are you saying the driver has to make people already in those seats move in order to load the wheelchairs? Who gets to decide if the passengers already there are “worthy enough” of those spots?

What about the disabled passengers waiting in line who are not in wheelchairs? They may need those seats if, for instance, they have balance issues that makes it unsafe to stand, and they can’t do stairs/steps to get to the seats in the rear of the bus? Those people aren’t permitted to leave the line to stand in the HA area, because they can access the remainder of the queue and get onto the bus normally, after it kneels….

Often they are made to wait thru several busses, because “[we) have to load scooters first…”— ignoring the fact that those “invisible” disabilities are just as valid and those people need those spots just as badly as the wheelchairs or ECV’s do.

Just food for thought when you are asserting the right to those spaces…

 

[AprilsZoo]

Not true. And you have to move.

How do you suggest they enforce this? Strongarm them… call the police and make everyone wait until they finally arrive? People with other disabilities that cannot reasonably access other seats have a right to those “reserved for disabled” seats…. Who is the final arbiter on whether someone’s disability makes them “worthy” of sitting there?

 

[starlite_]

How do you suggest they enforce this? Strongarm them… call the police and make everyone wait until they finally arrive? People with other disabilities that cannot reasonably access other seats have a right to those “reserved for disabled” seats…. Who is the final arbiter on whether someone’s disability makes them “worthy” of sitting there?

Thank you thank you thank you thank you!!!

It was so discouraging how some folks on the thread keep advocating for moving ppl like that.

 

[Evita_W]

How do you suggest they enforce this? Strongarm them… call the police and make everyone wait until they finally arrive? People with other disabilities that cannot reasonably access other seats have a right to those “reserved for disabled” seats…. Who is the final arbiter on whether someone’s disability makes them “worthy” of sitting there?

Absolutely, those with invisible disabilities can sit in other seats, DH has long maintained that there should be seats designated for priority to those with disabilities that are not the seats that fold up for ECVs, as again, they could sit there just as easily as the ones designated for ECVs.

Thank you thank you thank you thank you!!!

It was so discouraging how some folks on the thread keep advocating for moving ppl like that.

No, it isn’t discouraging, the reality is there are a limited number of places mobility devices can be placed, so they should indeed get the priority, those with invisible disabilities (and we are all too familiar with those) can sit elsewhere. Now, if there are no other seats available, that’s a different story all together for those with invisible disabilities, but those without disabilities absolutely should be required to move.

 

[SteveMouse]

Absolutely, those with invisible disabilities can sit in other seats, DH has long maintained that there should be seats designated for priority to those with disabilities that are not the seats that fold up for ECVs, as again, they could sit there just as easily as the ones designated for ECVs.


No, it isn’t discouraging, the reality is there are a limited number of places mobility devices can be placed, so they should indeed get the priority, those with invisible disabilities (and we are all too familiar with those) can sit elsewhere. Now, if there are no other seats available, that’s a different story all together for those with invisible disabilities, but those without disabilities absolutely should be required to move.

An issue is when there are wheeled devices in their proper spaces and there is no additional seating at the same level (eg, you need to go up several stairs to get to a seat, as is the case on at least some Disney buses). Some individuals with disabilities who don't use an ecv or a wheelchair cannot climb stairs. They are effectively "competing" with ecv/wheelchair users for a scarce resource (the seats that are designated for use by the disabled but "disappear" when folded out of the way of an ecv or wheelchair). The pool of people that needs the spaces is larger than it appears, if one is only looking at wheels.

 

[starlite_]

Absolutely, those with invisible disabilities can sit in other seats, DH has long maintained that there should be seats designated for priority to those with disabilities that are not the seats that fold up for ECVs, as again, they could sit there just as easily as the ones designated for ECVs.


No, it isn’t discouraging, the reality is there are a limited number of places mobility devices can be placed, so they should indeed get the priority, those with invisible disabilities (and we are all too familiar with those) can sit elsewhere. Now, if there are no other seats available, that’s a different story all together for those with invisible disabilities, but those without disabilities absolutely should be required to move.

And how are you gonna determine who has an invisible disability and who is just tired? Are you gonna ask for documentation? Question everyone sitting there? It's called an invisible disability for a reason. I'm sorry if it sounds harsh, but this is not the disability Olympics and no one gets to determine what disability gets to have priority over others.

Let's all be kind to each other yeah? If someone is sitting there and doesn't move on their own then assume they need the chair and move on.

 

[LoveToDisney]

Pack your patience when using an ECV. I always take the bus driver’s word if there is no room for me and ask politely if he will call it in for another bus to come. They are doing a balancing act to accommodate all passengers.

 

[Mle8308]

What to do? If a transportation system has a limited number of chair spots then they have a separate line for chairs. When the bus arrives, that line is loaded first until capacity for chairs, and then non chairs load. When disembarking, non chairs disembark first and chairs last. That was the original start of the post.

Disagree. What if there are no chairs in line, people who are in line have been waiting for 30 minutes. The bus pulls up and as it's moving into the load zone, a party using an ECV pulls up with 6 other people, in the "seperate line". So, they should be allowed to board before all the guests who have waited for 30 minutes? And now the 7 people who have already waited 30 minutes won't be able to board because the ECV group displaced them, after waiting in line. They have to wait potentially another 30 minutes while the person and the group with the ECV didn't wait at all? Nope.

 

[LoveToDisney]

I have arrived at a bus stop before with an ECV when the regular waiting area is overly full and a bus is pulling in. If it looks like there are more people waiting than what will fill a bus, I hold back and don’t pull up to the ADA curb until they have started the loading so I can wait for the next bus. If we have guests with us, they are encouraged to get into the regular line.

 

[elvispursley]

I have arrived at a bus stop before with an ECV when the regular waiting area is overly full and a bus is pulling in. If it looks like there are more people waiting than what will fill a bus, I hold back and don’t pull up to the ADA curb until they have started the loading so I can wait for the next bus. If we have guests with us, they are encouraged to get into the regular line.

Or if you do use the line for ECVs and there’s a large queue, just tell the driver you’re happy to wait for the next bus and let those waiting board ahead of you. We’ve definitely done this in the past. And agree with the pp that everyone needs to pack patience. I have to tell myself that I will eventually get to wear I need to go. It’s not worth getting my knickers in a twist and driving my blood pressure up.

There’s always this option as well: if we ever did need a seat on the bus, either because I was holding an infant or due to balance problems from a neurological issue, we would tell the CM we’d wait for the next bus.