middle school dance -- girls can't turn down a guy who asks them

[MamaBelle4]

Sorry but saying yes to a dance should not be teaching anyone that they don’t have the right to say no to anything else. That is my point. Not that she should have to dance with him but that rape culture and being afraid to say no or him understanding that no means no is sooo much deeper than a request to dance. And making it about this does a disservice to our kids.

And I still think that our kids need to learn to be kind to one another.

If you don’t want to dance with someone because the have done or said something inappropriate, fine. But speak up. Don’t let what he did go just because you “shouldn’t have to”. That does a LOT more toward rape culture than saying yes to a dance. We want our girls to have power than by goodness, GIVE them power to speak up loud and clear rather than just “she shouldn’t have to give a reason”.

Otoh, if she wants to say no because he wears glasses or has a wart or isn’t a football player or one of the many silly reasons middle school girls can be cruel about, then that girl or those girls need to learn a bit about being kind. Whether that is dancing or figuring out another way to include that kid in the group.

I'm sorry but you are dead wrong here. It does not do a disservice to our children. It does a disservice to our children to be okay with them not having a say over their bodies. Let's break this down and compare:
No, thank you, I don't want to dance with you. Girl says no.
Authority sweeps in and makes it clear she can't say no. It is SOMEHOW her responsibility to make him feel better and included. Her opinion and comfort does not matter.

You cannot possibly think that teaching a young girl this will not have disastrous consequences. You cannot possibly think that teaching a boy that a girl doesn't have the right to say no will not have consequences.

Thank goodness the mother is advocating for her. This is absolutely disgusting. Heaven forbid my kids' school ever try anything like this.

 

[katie01]

But that isn’t what you said. You said you can’t slow dance without your bodies touching. Is your hand part of your body, yes of course but that isn’t what you said. You implied their body as in chest area—body. You even asked the other poster if they have unusually long arms. So if you simply meant hands, what difference does the length of arms make?

And I said “going on about” not “going on and on”. Those aren’t the same statements.

If the boy did what the mom said then she missed the perfect time to teach her daughter to speak up. If it’s true then that is far past a request to dance. Letting him go with it is the wrong thing to do. And 11 is the very age when a girl should be taught to handle these situations.

Wow

 

[mjkacmom]

Here’s the thing, what happens in gym class? You can‘t learn partner dances without touching another person. I assume the PE teachers pair them up.

 

[Jennasis]

Here’s the thing, what happens in gym class? You can‘t learn partner dances without touching another person. I assume the PE teachers pair them up.

DH had to learn square dancing in his PE class. The teacher lined everyone up and gave them a number for the boys and for the girls. You were partnered with whomever had your number of the opposite sex.

My school never taught dance of any kind in PE. I feel strongly it shouldn't be taught in PE.

So what happens in this school if a boy wants to ask another boy to dance? Or a girl asks another girl? What happens when NOBODY asks the cast off (the kid nobody likes for whatever reason)? What happens when the shy kid or the one with social anxiety CAN'T bring himself to ask anyone or she is too terrified or what not to dance with anyone?

This whole thing is stupid. No forced dancing. End of story. Footloose had it right LOL.

 

[mjkacmom]

DH had to learn square dancing in his PE class. The teacher lined everyone up and gave them a number for the boys and for the girls. You were partnered with whomever had your number of the opposite sex.

My school never taught dance of any kind in PE. I feel strongly it shouldn't be taught in PE.

So what happens in this school if a boy wants to ask another boy to dance? Or a girl asks another girl? What happens when NOBODY asks the cast off (the kid nobody likes for whatever reason)? What happens when the shy kid or the one with social anxiety CAN'T bring himself to ask anyone or she is too terrified or what not to dance with anyone?

This whole thing is stupid. No forced dancing. End of story. Footloose had it right LOL.

I think if it’s not part of the curriculum (waltz/swing/line), they should make it like regular middle school dances where girls dance with girls and boys run around, no slow dances.

 

[Jennasis]

I think if it’s not part of the curriculum (waltz/swing/line), they should make it like regular middle school dances where girls dance with girls and boys run around, no slow dances.

They could solve it by calling it a "party" instead of a dance.

 

[Hikergirl]

How many middle school girls do you know? I can just about guarantee if there is a boy asking who is the grade out cast or one of them, and he approaches a group of girls, he isn’t going to get a polite response. Middle school girls are the worst at making someone feel two inches tall.

Well I have a daughter and 2 sons that have been through middle school so I've known quite a few.
And you may mean 'some' middle school girls but if all the middle school girls you have known would be like that then I am just thankful those aren't the ones I know.
But, nice deflection of the question I asked

Bottom line is nobody, male, female, child or adult should be forced to comply with having someone's hands on them., even a hand to hand or a light touch on the waist. Last I checked, that was still touching.
I don't care if they are the most popular girl, the wallflower, the class nerd, clown or Prom Queen.
None of that matters you don't get to touch people unless they say it's OK. A school Principal should never say it's ok for someone to touch you. EVER. You should always be allowed to say NO, no matter why you would want too.

You are all kinds of wrong in this thread, please stop trying to defend this kind of stuff, it's borderline sickening.

 

[tzolkin]

As for the mom in the article, if she knew what this boy was quoted to say before the dance then the time for her to say something was then. Not after she was angry with the principal.

I don’t necessarily agree with this. If people went to the principal to tell every time a boy made a sexually inappropriate comment, there would be a never-ending line of constant complaints.

Girls receive unwanted sexual attention (comments, requests, pictures of genitalia, etc) ALL THE TIME. They don’t tattle to the principal every time someone says something, especially outside of school (via social media, cell phone, whatever). They deal with it on their own— usually by having the autonomy to say “no”.

That’s why this is so bothersome to me. What if a girl had been harassed or raped by a particular boy and then she gets told by the principal that she has to dance with him when he asks because she’s not allowed to say no?

I understand that’s not the situation here, but having this type of policy creates an environment where something like that is likely to happen. It just doesn’t seem like the school administration thought this through before enforcing.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

I think if it’s not part of the curriculum (waltz/swing/line), they should make it like regular middle school dances where girls dance with girls and boys run around, no slow dances.

Is this really what middle schoolers are like nowadays? It’s been nearly 30 years since I was in middle school, but our dances were nothing like this. We had slow dancing, but far more sexualized were the fast dances where everyone sandwiched themselves boy/girl/boy/girl and grinded on each other. There was no mass separation of girls against one wall and boys on the other*, everyone too afraid to dance with the opposite sex. And definitely no one was running around like it was recess. It was a dance and, by and large, that’s what people did. Surely there were students who preferred socializing over dancing but, fortunately, everyone was free to participate (or not) in only the types of dancing they were comfortable with, which is a lot better than what’s going on in the OP scenario.

*Well, except for when the song Work the Walls was played and everyone literally started humping the walls. Ah, DC in the early 90s...

 

[luvsJack]

Well I have a daughter and 2 sons that have been through middle school so I've known quite a few.
And you may mean 'some' middle school girls but if all the middle school girls you have known would be like that then I am just thankful those aren't the ones I know.
But, nice deflection of the question I asked

Bottom line is nobody, male, female, child or adult should be forced to comply with having someone's hands on them., even a hand to hand or a light touch on the waist. Last I checked, that was still touching.
I don't care if they are the most popular girl, the wallflower, the class nerd, clown or Prom Queen.
None of that matters you don't get to touch people unless they say it's OK. A school Principal should never say it's ok for someone to touch you. EVER. You should always be allowed to say NO, no matter why you would want too.

You are all kinds of wrong in this thread, please stop trying to defend this kind of stuff, it's borderline sickening.

I have said at least 5 times that everyone should have the right to say no. Very first post I made I said it and I have said it again and again. I am not defending this policy.

I am simply saying that all kids, especially at that age need to learn kindness and empathy.

And I am saying that not saying something about what the boy supposedly did in the first place is doing more harm than a dance.

Yes I meant some girls. Actually quite a few girls at that age can be cruel. They are trying to find their place in the pecking order of the groups of kids and in doing so, they have to be better or more cool or more liked than the next kid. So being seen dancing with the boy that is “uncool” is just not done.

And I think that if this school wants to do something about making sure fewer kids are excluded, then they need to do more than hold a dance. They need to teach all of them some things about how to treat others. I never said saying “no thank you” was rude. But I am saying that in middle school girl fashion, that doesn’t always happen.

 

[luvsJack]

I don’t necessarily agree with this. If people went to the principal to tell every time a boy made a sexually inappropriate comment, there would be a never-ending line of constant complaints.

Girls receive unwanted sexual attention (comments, requests, pictures of genitalia, etc) ALL THE TIME. They don’t tattle to the principal every time someone says something, especially outside of school (via social media, cell phone, whatever). They deal with it on their own— usually by having the autonomy to say “no”.

That’s why this is so bothersome to me. What if a girl had been harassed or raped by a particular boy and then she gets told by the principal that she has to dance with him when he asks because she’s not allowed to say no?

I understand that’s not the situation here, but having this type of policy creates an environment where something like that is likely to happen. It just doesn’t seem like the school administration thought this through before enforcing.

And not saying something is just contributing to the “boys will be boys” attitude. It’s sexual harassment and should be treated as such (of course on their level, not a legal one or adult level). Either Mom should have said something or she should teach her daughter to be strong enough to speak up.

 

[Planogirl]

If a girl simply doesn't like a boy then she shouldn't be required to dance with him. There doesn't have to be a defined reason just like I wouldn't have to give one if I were in that position. Boys shouldn't have to explain their reasons for denial to anyone either.

This is ludicrous.

 

[DisneyOma]

Hobson told The Post boys and girls take turns asking classmates to dance. When a song starts, the boys will ask girls to dance. When that song finishes, the girls will ask boys to dance.

How the heck does that work? Song starts - boy asks, they dance. Song ends, girl asks, but then song starts, boy asks? When do they actually dance after the girl asks? This Hobson dude is an idiot!

 

[seshat0120]

The first thing Mom should do is teach her daughter not just to say no but to also speak up. If the boy said something like that, her daughter should have had no problem telling the principal exactly why she wanted nothing to do with the boy.

She said NO. That is all she needs to say. She (and person) does not need to justify why they are saying no. No means no. Period. End of subject.

 

[disneymom3]

And not saying something is just contributing to the “boys will be boys” attitude. It’s sexual harassment and should be treated as such (of course on their level, not a legal one or adult level). Either Mom should have said something or she should teach her daughter to be strong enough to speak up.

No. It is not the girl’s fault or her being weak if she chooses not to say anything. That’s like saying a rape victim is responsible for the next rape a man commits if she chooses not to report it.

 

[sasywtch]

Agreed! PE is a requirement, it's a class activity just like a science lab where you're partnered with someone; male or female. A dance is optional. No one should be required to say "yes" to dancing with another person. Rejection is part of life. If they are concerned about rejection and feelings than perhaps a better approach would be educate students on how to politely decline an invitation to dance. You still get to take a chance and ask, but know that rejection isn't the end of the world.

**Personally I hated square dancing, but it was a requirement in my school district in CA during the late 80s early 90s. My kids don't know the horror of partnering up to square dance and line dance on the playground in the hot summer/fall sun.

We had it in the 70's in N CA but ours was inside the gym. No shoes so we slid a lot with our socks on (obviously none of us were smart enough to go barefoot).

 

[okeydokey]

And not saying something is just contributing to the “boys will be boys” attitude. It’s sexual harassment and should be treated as such (of course on their level, not a legal one or adult level). Either Mom should have said something or she should teach her daughter to be strong enough to speak up.

The daughter did speak up.

Many girls don’t regardless of what we teach them. Not all girls are confident enough to say something. And that is not a fault we should blame them for.

 

[mom22belles]

It seems to me that if the school truly wanted to protect kids from the pain of rejection they would require every student to dance with every other student. From the article it doesn’t indicate that , it only says they are not allowed to say no. So there still is potential for many children never to get asked to dance.
The schools reasoning is beyond flawed !

 

[Skippy918]

How many 11yos wouldn’t even want to dance with a member of the opposite sex? My son is 11 and none of that interests him yet, so it wouldn’t surprise me if he told a girl no.
Our middle school had a dance but it was more of a party with games and music. Ds didn’t go. From what I heard the boys were running around and the girls were chit chatting.

 

[Jennasis]

This showed up on my FB feed today: