Mass Shooting at Pittsburgh Synagogue

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The man was a raging anti-Semite. He said Trump was controlled by the Jews. He felt Trump wasn't racist enough... his social media posts are being leaked. No way this can't be a hate crime.

If it's not confirmed I error on the side of caution of not stating with certainty though yes signs point to it.

 

[Farro]

If it's not confirmed I error on the side of caution of not stating with certainty though yes signs point to it.

It's confirmed. Check the news websites, it's the entire narrative.

 

[Klayfish]

And just the other day I heard on the National CBS news about a woman in China or Japan (can’t remember which) that went on a rampage with a knife injuring 14 children at a school. So, it’s not the guns doing the hurting and killing, it’s people. People.

Please tell me your kidding, right? Let's look at how many mass killings are done with a knife and then look how many are done with a gun. Yes, it's people pulling the trigger, but if they don't have a gun, this doesn't happen. Having a gun in your hand makes normally cowardly people feel brave.

Again...guns...sigh...

 

[disneyjunkie]

The man is a raging anti-Semite. He said Trump was controlled by the Jews. He felt Trump wasn't racist enough... his social media posts are being leaked. No way this can't be a hate crime.

Shame, people worrying about refugees when these real life monsters are born and bred in America.

Exactly

People want to point the finger at the others. But the folks committing acts of terror here are Americans. The people screaming the loudest about securing our boarders are the very ones that fit the description of home grown terrorists.

 

[Domo]

Please tell me your kidding, right? Let's look at how many mass killings are done with a knife and then look how many are done with a gun. Yes, it's people pulling the trigger, but if they don't have a gun, this doesn't happen. Having a gun in your hand makes normally cowardly people feel brave.

Again...guns...sigh...

I can settle this whole gun debate.

Just watch the relevant "American Dad" episode in series 1, episode 14. It's the usual repertoire on the DIS in hyper-speed.

Right. Now that's out of the way, can we PLEASE get back to mourning the dead?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

It's confirmed. Check the news websites, it's the entire narrative.

I did.

Local news says "City officials said the shooting was being investigated as a federal hate crime."

CNN says "The shooting is being investigated as a hate crime, Gov. Tom Wolf said."

USA Today says "...FBI as the lead agency to investigate the attack as an alleged hate crime."

Now I did see that Washington Post 21mins ago (after I posted my comment) states "the Department of Justice will file hate crimes and other criminal charges against the defendant..."

I completely get what you're saying but I'm honestly unsure what you're issue is with what I said. Clearly I said it's being investigated as one, clearly I said I despise hate crimes, clearly I said signs are pointing to it. What I did say is it wasn't confirmed as one (and it wasn't when I posted my comment) and I error on the side of caution from what I had been reading on resources.

 

[robinb]

If it's not confirmed I error on the side of caution of not stating with certainty though yes signs point to it.

Oh, I think it's pretty clear.

http://www2.philly.com/philly/news/robert-bowers-pittsburgh-synagogue-shooting-20181027.html

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Oh, I think it's pretty clear.

http://www2.philly.com/philly/news/robert-bowers-pittsburgh-synagogue-shooting-20181027.html

Please see my previous comment

 

[NHdisneylover]

I am not incorrect in every state. Some states have stricter gun laws than others. Do you mean the biased media?

Given that people can easily drive to another state, easily purchase a weapon, then drive back, until something is done on a federal level to make sure all states regulate gun ownership, you are wrong about the issue as a whole.

 

[CarolAnn856]

My heart is breaking for the victims, their families, the Jewish community, and our country.

 

[Farro]

I did.

Local news says "City officials said the shooting was being investigated as a federal hate crime."

CNN says "The shooting is being investigated as a hate crime, Gov. Tom Wolf said."

USA Today says "...FBI as the lead agency to investigate the attack as an alleged hate crime."

Now I did see that Washington Post 21mins ago (after I posted my comment) states "the Department of Justice will file hate crimes and other criminal charges against the defendant..."

I completely get what you're saying but I'm honestly unsure what you're issue is with what I said. Clearly I said it's being investigated as one, clearly I said I despise hate crimes, clearly I said signs are pointing to it. What I did say is it wasn't confirmed as one (and it wasn't when I posted my comment) and I error on the side of caution from what I had been reading on resources.

Your posting history says to me that you like to argue about minutia.

I don't.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Your posting history says to me that you like to argue about minutia.

I don't.

OK whatever I don't even know what your issue is but please move along and we'll agree to disagree about whatever is we're agreeing to disagree about

 

[robinb]

I completely get what you're saying but I'm honestly unsure what you're issue is with what I said. Clearly I said it's being investigated as one, clearly I said I despise hate crimes, clearly I said signs are pointing to it. What I did say is it wasn't confirmed as one (and it wasn't when I posted my comment) and I error on the side of caution from what I had been reading on resources.

When is a hate crime "confirmed"? Isn't that part of the charging process or the investigation? It just seems like splitting hairs to me as it's pretty clear that he hated Jewish people (by his own words) and he attacked a synagogue. I don't need a prosecutor or a detective to "confirm" something that is as clear as the nose on my face.

FWIW, I also tend to err on the side of caution about things that are reported in the first few hours of a mass killing like this. I remember all the false leads during the first few hours of Sandy Hook and since then have tried not to share them. For instance, I read that the murderer yelled, "All Jews Must Die!" but I'm not sure if he did or not so I'm not willing to pass that on as the truth.

 

[JaneBanks]

The man is a raging anti-Semite. He said Trump was controlled by the Jews. He felt Trump wasn't racist enough... his social media posts are being leaked. No way this can't be a hate crime.

Shame, people worrying about refugees when these real life monsters are born and bred in America.

Homegrown terrorists indoctrinated through cable tv.

 

[ronandannette]

I can settle this whole gun debate.

Just watch the relevant "American Dad" episode in series 1, episode 14. It's the usual repertoire on the DIS in hyper-speed.

Right. Now that's out of the way, can we PLEASE get back to mourning the dead?

Your first sentence is shockingly glib and not funny, if it was intended as a joke. I rarely post to this type of thread - I'm not American and somehow it just seems inappropriate to weigh in strongly with opinions based on an entirely different cultural mindset.

It's also not appropriate to assume you can control the direction of any given thread. If you're disturbed by the discussion maybe just avoid it for your own sake. You are welcome to memorialize the unfortunate victims of this tragedy any way you want. Others discussing the incident here is not stopping you from doing that.

 

[Domo]

Your first sentence is shockingly glib and not funny, if it was intended as a joke. I rarely post to this type of thread - I'm not American and somehow it just seems inappropriate to weigh in strongly with opinions based on an entirely different cultural mindset.

It's also not appropriate to assume you can control the direction of any given thread. If you're disturbed by the discussion maybe just avoid it for your own sake. You are welcome to memorialize the unfortunate victims of this tragedy any way you want. Others discussing the incident here is not stopping you from doing that.

Oh for cripes sake.

I was using humour to tackle a serious argument that has no place on the DIS.

And you missed it.

GET OVER IT, STOP ARGUING ABOUT GUNS AND FEEL A LITTLE COMPASSION.

 

[ronandannette]

Oh for cripes sake.

I was using humour to tackle a serious argument that has no place on the DIS.

And you missed it.

GET OVER IT, STOP ARGUING ABOUT GUNS AND FEEL A LITTLE COMPASSION.

You don't decide what belongs on the DIS. Nor should you presume to know what anybody does or does not feel.

 

[Domo]

You don't decide what belongs on the DIS. Nor should you presume to know what anybody does or does not feel.

Well I'm sorry, but it REALLY upsets me when people have DIED and the reflex reaction of some people is to wax lyrical about if it was the gun or the shooter.

I think I have every right to comment that people should be in mourning.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

When is a hate crime "confirmed"? Isn't that part of the charging process or the investigation? It just seems like splitting hairs to me as it's pretty clear that he hated Jewish people (by his own words) and he attacked a synagogue. I don't need a prosecutor or a detective to "confirm" something that is as clear as the nose on my face.

FWIW, I also tend to err on the side of caution about things that are reported in the first few hours of a mass killing like this. I remember all the false leads during the first few hours of Sandy Hook and since then have tried not to share them. For instance, I read that the murderer yelled, "All Jews Must Die!" but I'm not sure if he did or not so I'm not willing to pass that on as the truth.

IMO I would think a hate crime is confirmed when the FBI formerly charges the person(s) and until then it's part of the investigation and usually referred to in media as an "alleged" hate crime.

Instead of me saying "it's a confirmed hate crime" which it wasn't at the time of being commenting from the multiple sources I had been reading I said "I despise hate crime incidents and I know this one is not confirmed but is being investigated as one." Me saying that doesn't constitute me not personally thinking it was a hate crime and as I stated later on signs point to it.

We had an incident several years ago in my area where a person went to a Jewish community center and Jewish retirement center and yelled "Heil Hitler" and then proceeded to shoot and that night the police chief of the city said "it is being investigated as a hate crime but said it's too soon to know whether it's a hate crime or not. We know it was a vicious act of violence, and we know obviously it was at two Jewish facilities," he said. "So one might make that assumption, but we're going to have to know more about it before we'll label it." The next day it was confirmed that charges of a hate crime would be sought. Ironically (though completely tragic that anyone died) the people he actually killed were not Jewish but instead Christians.

And unfortunately another hate crime incident (though not Jewish related) in my area that seemed very likely to be hate crime and the perp's comment of "Get out of my country" but was not officially announced as being investigated as one by the FBI until 5 days later.

I remember a thread on the DIS here where some people were convinced it was a hate crime because of the victims' ethnicity but then victims of a different ethnicity were targeted after the initial ones--though the main issue I had in that thread was people didn't know anything about the perp only that several victims were of one ethinicity so in their eyes it couldn't possibly be anything else.

I give the FBI credit they try to investigate a person(s), their history, and their motives as thoroughly as they can.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Well I'm sorry, but it REALLY upsets me when people have DIED and the reflex reaction of some people is to wax lyrical about if it was the gun or the shooter.

I think I have every right to comment that people should be in mourning.

And as someone who lost a cousin she was very close to to gun violence, it really upsets me when people try to stop discourse about the epedemic and shame people who want to change things so more lives are not needlessly lost using the need to mourn as an excuse to stifle others.

I can both mourn, and speak out at the same time---and from my side, this is a way of honoring my cousin's life and making it so that her death will not have been entirely in vain.

And given the frequency with which mass shootings take plae in the USA---if we waited until you said we were done mourning to discuss changes, there*d alreaxy be another wed have to mourn, and nothing would ever be discussed---in fact, I believe that is one reason nothing has been done yet---people like you keep shaming others into silence.