maine

[CdnCarrie]

Correct, which gets back to the fact that there are probably innumerable cultural issues that are at play here.

What kinds of cultural issues would make such a difference?

 

[gmi3804]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67240152

One of the few remaining Democratic congressman opposed to sweeping gun control measures has abruptly reversed course after a mass shooting in his Maine constituency.
Until a gunman killed 18 people on Wednesday in his hometown of Lewiston, Jared Golden, 41, said he opposed a ban on semi-automatic weapons.
The Marine Corps veteran now says his previous stance was a "failure".
He represents a largely rural district that twice voted for Donald Trump.
The third-term congressman was elected in 2018, flipping the district to the Democrats.
Since arriving on Capitol Hill, he has broken with his own party to vote against several gun control measures.

He was one of only five Democratic representatives to oppose a planned ban on assault-style weapons that was passed by the House of Representatives in 2022. It did not become law.
"I don't support any version of that," Mr Golden said at the time.
On Thursday, however, Mr Golden said the shooting in Lewiston had forced him to reconsider.
"The time has now come for me to take responsibility for this failure," he said at a news conference.
"Which is why I now call on the United States Congress to ban assault rifles like the one used by the sick perpetrator of this mass killing in my hometown."

Of course he did - now his future is in the hands of people who've lost a bunch of fellow citizens to a mass shooting! SMH.

 

[TheIncredibles!]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67240152

One of the few remaining Democratic congressman opposed to sweeping gun control measures has abruptly reversed course after a mass shooting in his Maine constituency.
Until a gunman killed 18 people on Wednesday in his hometown of Lewiston, Jared Golden, 41, said he opposed a ban on semi-automatic weapons.
The Marine Corps veteran now says his previous stance was a "failure".
He represents a largely rural district that twice voted for Donald Trump.
The third-term congressman was elected in 2018, flipping the district to the Democrats.
Since arriving on Capitol Hill, he has broken with his own party to vote against several gun control measures.

He was one of only five Democratic representatives to oppose a planned ban on assault-style weapons that was passed by the House of Representatives in 2022. It did not become law.
"I don't support any version of that," Mr Golden said at the time.
On Thursday, however, Mr Golden said the shooting in Lewiston had forced him to reconsider.
"The time has now come for me to take responsibility for this failure," he said at a news conference.
"Which is why I now call on the United States Congress to ban assault rifles like the one used by the sick perpetrator of this mass killing in my hometown."

Now that it his HIS hometown, NOW the time has come.

 

[Moliphino]

Massachusetts has 1/3 the firearm deaths as Maine. We need to find out what their schools teach.

MA also has stricter gun laws than ME.

 

[tx911]

What kinds of cultural issues would make such a difference?

Beyond my ability to pinpoint.

The statistics show that there are countries with heavy personal gun ownership that have similar homicide rates to countries with very restricted gun ownership. The same is true amongst various states in the US (though not all).

Thus, there are more factors at play than just the presence of guns.

 

[tx911]

I guess we'll have to wait until more (or, make that, the RIGHT) people are slaughtered. There's no reasoning with these people.

Not even sure how to respond to this double entendre.

 

[TheIncredibles!]

Beyond my ability to pinpoint.

The statistics show that there are countries with heavy personal gun ownership that have similar homicide rates to countries with very restricted gun ownership. The same is true amongst various states in the US (though not all).

Thus, there are more factors at play than just the presence of guns.

The point I’m trying to make but I’m taking too long to get there It’s not just gun control. Tighter gun laws alone are not enough. We have to keep digging deeper into the issue because they will go to the next easiest way to create mass destruction but please let’s start… somewhere. It’s insane we are still here.

 

[Ms.Minnie]

I’m curious to know what those who are very anti-gun would like to see in a national gun control plan. What would you consider to be acceptable? I do believe we already have many laws on the books but unfortunately, they don’t always seem to be adhered to. And of course, we will still have the problem of illegally obtained guns that seem to be so prevalent in our inner cities, what do you propose to do about those guns? I think it would be more helpful and conducive to a constructive conversation to come up with some creative and good ideas instead of just throwing out snide remarks.

There was a thread on these boards recently that was removed or closed about the middle east and what’s going on there. Someone suggested that the people (the citizens) stand up for themselves against the terrorists. It was stated that the people have no way to protect themselves because they have no weapons. I do believe this is one of the reasons our founding fathers put the 2nd Amendment into the Constitution. I for one think it’s better for the citizens to have a way to defend themselves if needed then to be left at the mercy of powers that may not have its citizens best interest at heart.

 

[jalapeno_pretzel]

How is this guy evading so many LEOs searching for him? I haven't read too in depth, but I believe they found his car, and aren't sure if he had another car waiting, or took off in a boat from there. It sounds like they are searching the river in case he's deceased, and then just recently I read Canada is issuing an alert. It seems this was very much planned in detail if he's successfully on the run like this. Of course, maybe he's deceased and they just can't find the body yet. I really don't know which is more likely.

 

[TheIncredibles!]

I’m curious to know what those who are very anti-gun would like to see in a national gun control plan. What would you consider to be acceptable? I do believe we already have many laws on the books but unfortunately, they don’t always seem to be adhered to. And of course, we will still have the problem of illegally obtained guns that seem to be so prevalent in our inner cities, what do you propose to do about those guns? I think it would be more helpful and conducive to a constructive conversation to come up with some creative and good ideas instead of just throwing out snide remarks.

There was a thread on these boards recently that was removed or closed about the middle east and what’s going on there. Someone suggested that the people (the citizens) stand up for themselves against the terrorists. It was stated that the people have no way to protect themselves because they have no weapons. I do believe this is one of the reasons our founding fathers put the 2nd Amendment into the Constitution. I for one think it’s better for the citizens to have a way to defend themselves if needed then to be left at the mercy of powers that may not have its citizens best interest at heart.

As long as they have the mental capacity to defend and not assault innocent people. That’s the problem. 18 people died at the hands of just 1 person with a gun. What would have changed in that Maine bar if everybody there was armed with their own assault rifles?

 

[Moliphino]

Beyond my ability to pinpoint.

The statistics show that there are countries with heavy personal gun ownership that have similar homicide rates to countries with very restricted gun ownership. The same is true amongst various states in the US (though not all).

Thus, there are more factors at play than just the presence of guns.

If you look at Switzerland, which has one of the highest rates of gun ownership in Europe, they still have much more restrictive laws than the US. They require more training (mandatory military service for men) and vetting for owning most guns. They don't let you carry them around loaded everywhere for funsies.

 

[Douglas Dubh]

Massachusetts has 1/3 the firearm deaths as Maine.

No, it doesn’t.

 

[Moliphino]

No, it doesn’t.

Per capita, not by straight numbers. MA has the lowest firearm death rate in the country.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm

 

[Genie+]

Per capita, not by straight numbers. MA has the lowest firearm death rate in the country.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm

Click back through the years. It has 2014-2021 and 2005.

 

[Moliphino]

Click back through the years. It has 2014-2021 and 2005.

And most years are about the same. ME 2-3.5x higher rate than MA.

 

[SirDuff]

If you look at Switzerland, which has one of the highest rates of gun ownership in Europe, they still have much more restrictive laws than the US. They require more training (mandatory military service for men) and vetting for owning most guns. They don't let you carry them around loaded everywhere for funsies.

The high level of gun ownership is BECAUSE of mandatory military service. All men are required to be in the "reserves" (not the exact term here but as close as it gets) with monthly training and they keep their own gun in between the training times. So, often, it's something that stays locked up in between training (and not something that they'd own if left to their own devices).

Not contracting what you've said, just adding to it.

 

[monsterkitty]

We have a Red Flag law in CO, but it didn't prevent the Club Q shooting last November because the sheriff in the county said he would not enforce the law.

The shooter in Club Q was arrested in 2021 for threatening to kill his grandparents by detonating a bomb, and then he was involved in a standoff with police. After the shooter was arrested in that incident, the sheriff failed to file the paperwork that would trigger the Red Flag law. Instead, they placed him in a "mandatory protection order" (MPO) and confiscated his weapons.

Because the shooter had his weapons confiscated under the MPO they could not pursue the Red Flag law. The suspect's relatives refused to cooperate in the case in which their own grandson threatened to blow them up, so the MPO was dropped.

While the sheriff's department still has the weapons that they confiscated in the 2021 incident, the shooter was able to go out and purchase new weapons because the MPO had been dropped. Too much time elapsed between the July 2021 incident and the November 2022 Club Q shooting so the paperwork from the 2021 incident was no longer valid. The sheriff could have easily followed through with a Red Flag law after the MPO was dropped, but once again, he has stated that he would not enforce the Red Flag law.

I could see this happening in any state that has a large population that sees a Red Flag law in violation of their Second Amendment and law enforcement refusing to follow the law.

BTW, CO is now trying to expand the Red Flag law here so that a Club Q doesn't happen again.

 

[Douglas Dubh]

And most years are about the same. ME 2-3.5x higher rate than MA.

But Maine has a lower homicide rate.

 

[kanne323]

How is this guy evading so many LEOs searching for him? I haven't read too in depth, but I believe they found his car, and aren't sure if he had another car waiting, or took off in a boat from there. It sounds like they are searching the river in case he's deceased, and then just recently I read Canada is issuing an alert. It seems this was very much planned in detail if he's successfully on the run like this. Of course, maybe he's deceased and they just can't find the body yet. I really don't know which is more likely.

He could be dead, in the water or in the woods. I would not be surprised if he has already ended his life. Maine is close to 90% forest and has the highest density of trees out of all states, so I can imagine it's not an easy search. He could be in NH (or further by now), there are places he could get into Canada without being noticed.

Couple with the unseasonably warm weather, it feels very, very weird here. I've never had the "it can't happen here" mindset, but Maine is well-known for being a safe state. We had something like 29 murders total last year. From Kittery to Fort Kent, I think people are shaken over the loss of the sense of safety. And being a low population state, the connections run deep. I can't even begin to count how many people at work (Portland area) lost friends or have family members or friends who were wounded.

 

[tink2424]

We have a Red Flag law in CO, but it didn't prevent the Club Q shooting last November because the sheriff in the county said he would not enforce the law.

The shooter in Club Q was arrested in 2021 for threatening to kill his grandparents by detonating a bomb, and then he was involved in a standoff with police. After the shooter was arrested in that incident, the sheriff failed to file the paperwork that would trigger the Red Flag law. Instead, they placed him in a "mandatory protection order" (MPO) and confiscated his weapons.

Because the shooter had his weapons confiscated under the MPO they could not pursue the Red Flag law. The suspect's relatives refused to cooperate in the case in which their own grandson threatened to blow them up, so the MPO was dropped.

While the sheriff's department still has the weapons that they confiscated in the 2021 incident, the shooter was able to go out and purchase new weapons because the MPO had been dropped. Too much time elapsed between the July 2021 incident and the November 2022 Club Q shooting so the paperwork from the 2021 incident was no longer valid. The sheriff could have easily followed through with a Red Flag law after the MPO was dropped, but once again, he has stated that he would not enforce the Red Flag law.

I could see this happening in any state that has a large population that sees a Red Flag law in violation of their Second Amendment and law enforcement refusing to follow the law.

BTW, CO is now trying to expand the Red Flag law here so that a Club Q doesn't happen again.

Well that is a problem if the Sheriff refuses to execute the law. It is one thing if the law is clearly unconstitutional but then follow the proper channels. This is why a lot of us feel that more laws aren't needed and that we need to apply the laws we do have. Add to that we need to do a better job with mental health and providing help or locking people away that are a threat to others.