Just returned... Updated Obervations, FP+

[DVCcurious]

As a DVC member I have a "been there, done that, will come back and do it next time" attitude. So FP+ doesn't bother me too much because I don't feel we NEED to do 15 attractions in a day.

That being said, I remember our first few visits in the 2009-2012 era. I definitely would have been upset with the FP+ thing.

I remember going to DisneyLand back in the 1980s and early 1990s before FP existed. Yes, lines were long. But they were always moving forward. You never "stood" in line, you "walked" in line. Now with FP/FP+ you are literally standing in line as hoards of FP people walk past you.

To me there is a big difference between "standing" in line and "walking" in line.

I guess my point is this: if I was a few-times-in-a-lifetime visitor to WDW I would be frustrated by how little you can do because the lines are just so long. I also think that this is what leads to poor service.

Let's face it, there are just too many people for the capacity (rides, busses, and restaurants). Disney built a bazillion hotel rooms over the past few years (DVC at Animal Kingdom, DVC at Contemporary, DVC at Grand Floridian, Art of Animation) but they haven't done, frankly, anything to increase capacity in the parks or the restaurants.

WDW NEEDS a fifth park for the high-peak times. 4 parks can handle the crowd level 7 and below days pretty well. But the 8, 9, and 10 days are just too crowded for the restaurants, busses, and rides to support.

But we all know a 5th park isn't coming soon. So hopefully they can better distribute the crowds away from MK and towards AK with the new AvatarLand (and hopefully HS with the new Star Wars land).

 

[Suvadoo]

I didn't literally mean we ran from FP machine to FP machine. It is an expression.

Thanks for the clarification. It just seems that Legacy FP has gotten more vilified by FP+ proponents since FP+ implementation.

 

[MudQueen22]

We just returned from Disney. It was my first visit and dh's fifth.
We both liked the magic bands, fast passes, and felt that Disney does a good job of keeping people moving when it is crowded.
I agree that they probably need a fifth park rather than adding more hotels.

We liked the app. We found that our original FP selections weren't to our daughter's liking, and we were able to change some of them while standing in line for other rides.

We probably won't go again in December. Crowds were way too heavy for my liking.

 

[World Showcaser]

Thanks for the clarification. It just seems that Legacy FP has gotten more vilified by FP+ proponents since FP+ implementation.

Wasn't trying to vilify anything...especially since I don't even understand what you just wrote. Not sure I'm a "proponent" of anything. I was just trying to suggest a way people could be less stressed.

 

[JZCubed]

1) After over a decade long (actually) run of holidays at WDW, our annual Xmas holiday trip to WDW/UO will be coming to an end. We will probably return once in a while but I think that our kids have gone older and we are parked out. FP+ has made it harder and a contributor and a slight push over this threshold but not the main reason.
-- When our children reach a certain age, isn't it understandable that our tatses and vacation desires shift a bit too? Remember, the typical response from children when asked about their favorite part of the Disney trip is, "The hotel swimming pool."


2) We were happy to play by the rules and be flexible while visiting WDW during busy times of the year - Howvever - Disney did not make it any easier - Not easy to change dining reservations - Not easy to change FP+ reservations - system is still very clunky and error prone.
-- The inability to change stuff is very annoying, particularly when the MDE system is being touting as the solution. I have found Cast Members over the telephone far more flexible in trying to move ADR's. Regardless, just as airlines overbook knowing some people will change plans, you'd think the Disney computers could have an algorithm that handles this too.

3) We spend months in the planning including getting the hard to secure BOG reservation - then Disney goes ahead and changes it's Wishes/Celebration schedule on very short notice. We are happy to work around this but then Disney hits us with bad software/applications that makes it hard to change dining, FP+ etc. I know many of you have not had issues but we are using IPhone running MDE AND computer in the hotel room using WIFI - nothing non-standard about that
-- Changing the calendar the way they do, to me, is unconscionable. But Disney does not seem to care about the Planners in this instance, they apparently move hours around (typically expand hours) in an attempt to manage the increase in hotel occupancy. But once folks have selected FP+, Disney really shouldn't make any schedule changes unless, as described in #2, their MDE site worked better.

4) Terrible service at the Wave caused us to miss replanned Wishes viewing - again, happy to work around this but then the MDE application craps out again. Very annoying.
-- I have been critical of Disney having hit-or-miss service for the price people pay at Signatures, in particular. And I mentioned in my dining review of just a few weeks ago, if the Wave were not convenient for travel days from my DVC home resort, I would tell people to stay away.

7) Service at the restaurants are hit and miss. For the prices, and hassle of making reservations it should be top notch.
-- By and large, Disney serves a great amount of very good food to an extraordinary number of people at most every restaurant-style and at every price point. However, they will continue to squeeze out profit until the lower quality lowers demand - and this is not going to happen with 'Free Dining' & DDP. At the higher-end, we've decided to leave Disney for dinner; we eat at Swan & Dolphin and will be trying Four Season on our next journey (and you can get ADR's at a late date). We are also utilizing the kitchen in our Villa with mostly prepared food from local markets.

8) Part of our attempt to see Wishes including needinng to extend Park Hoppers for our kids by a day. Guest services unable to do this due to unexplainable glitch - had to go to a Park Window late at night to get this done. Again, aggravating technology. To rant on this a little more, I am familiar with the concept of software engineering. Seriouslly? A billion spent and this?
-- I believe it to be $1.5billion. And while much is better this past year, there do seem to be enough glitches that I just bother Disney and call them to fix the anticipated problem(s) about a week before my 180- and 60-day windows, respectively.

9) Mine train: Great new rided, but all that trouble and investment for a ride that is barely a blink? At the end of the day, it is a train on a little track - how much would it have cost to make that track as long a big thunder?
-- I think you are missing something in your analysis - the Coaster was not designed for you. It's the step up from Barnstormer and before Big Thunder - a shorter (less horrifying) ride was appropriate. And remember, they put this thing in the middle of a 40 year old Park without it looking like it just arrived. Lastly, my 5 y.o. daughter went on all the Mountains & 7Dwarfs this recent trip - she prefers dropping Splash and keeping 7Dwarfs for her third choice of FP+ rides, after Big Thunder & Space. She is choosing 2 minutes over 20.

Yes, I want, you want, and even my daughter wants more new Thrill Rides, but 7Dwarfs is an appropriate ride for where it is placed.

10) At the end of the day, Disney is making out with apparent record park attendance - interesting to see if this persists over the years. They will probably do so but maybe the jury is out.
-- Because the next generation of families willing to give Disney 15 years of vacation dollars is always arriving. 3-4 generations have been around for the near 50 years of Disney, part of the beauty is, when you want to come back in a few years, you will likely feel far more nostalgic than you do today. In large part, that is the magic of Disney. I loved Disney as a child - there were no FP's - my sister & I waited two hour to ride Space Mt. 40 years ago; the line at the new Astro Orbiter was too long to justify. I share similar experience with my child today on Toy Story or 7Dwarfs. Despite two hour waits, we remember these vacations as being priceless.

See in GREEN above.

 

[jmcdonnell04]

We were just at DW with a couple of short visits before and after Christmas. We are veteran commando family who spent all day at the parks and utilized the legacy FP system to its fullest. It was amazing how many other park guests who did not know how the old FP system worked. Because they refused to do any research, they stood in long lines. Because they were on vacation and did not want to get up until noon, they stood in long lines. The uninformed guests complained and Disney decided to placate the newer guests at the expense of us, the dedicated Disney fans who already have invested their money in DVC and Annual Passes. I now have 3 visits to DW with the FP+ system and it stinks. Lines are longer everywhere and you still have uninformed guests who will still find new reasons to complain. You can not get a 4th FP on your phone or at a different park that you intend to visit next. When you go the kiosk, the only FP available are for rides that in the past did not need a FP nor should have a FP+ now.

I believe that the FP+ system was created for the many guests (foreign & domestic) who use travel agents. The travel agents can make the ADR and FP+ reservations for their clients. The client can not complain that they never got to ride Toy Story Mania if the travel agent set it up … in my opinion.

 

[Kingdome8]

This is why I take my kids out of school for Disney trips... Most of all complaints are from people who visit at busy times. I loved fp+ my kids and I thought it was the greatest. To me much better then old system. I know I always have those rides in my back pocket.

If I go at Christmas or spring break I know I'm going to wait for rides. Even with the old system you would be waiting too.

I loved 7D mine train. My little girls thought it was the greatest. Sure I enjoy huge hills and speed. But I loved that my kids loved it.

Overall MB and MDE app made the trip the best. Also the MM was incredible. Loved looking for all the different spots to get family pics.

With my family we have been 4 times in last 5.5 years. Always had great time
Service is the best.

 

[millerjmls]

FP+ does not require that you be on the phone while in the parks. If you want to be continually worrying about making the right decision and changing things, that's up to you. If not, you can just book your FPs weeks in advance and forget about it.

The whole system seems infinitely less stressful to me than having to run from FP machine to FP machine. And it controls crowds better to make for a more pleasant experience.

A trip is what you make of it. If you choose to be stressed, you will be. If you want to go with the flow, you can. This has always been true.

I agree. I do take my phone and a backup charger so I can use my touring plan for lines only to save us a few steps and get us to an attraction with a shorter wait. But otherwise, we like to just stroll along and enjoy each moment.

 

[mom2rtk]

This is why I take my kids out of school for Disney trips...

There reaches a point where taking your kids out will no longer be an option. Once they get to high school, the stakes are just too high.

And honestly the "low crowd" times really aren't as "low crowd" as they used to be.

 

[Kingdome8]

There reaches a point where taking your kids out will no longer be an option. Once they get to high school, the stakes are just too high.

And honestly the "low crowd" times really aren't as "low crowd" as they used to be.

True. But way lower then christmas and spring break.
When my kids hit high school I don't think we go as much as we do now.

Touring plans def change as life changes.

 

[mom2rtk]

FP+ does not require that you be on the phone while in the parks. If you want to be continually worrying about making the right decision and changing things, that's up to you. If not, you can just book your FPs weeks in advance and forget about it.

The whole system seems infinitely less stressful to me than having to run from FP machine to FP machine. And it controls crowds better to make for a more pleasant experience.

A trip is what you make of it. If you choose to be stressed, you will be. If you want to go with the flow, you can. This has always been true.

The old FP system probably was stressful if you ran all over the park gathering FPs. We maximized FP without ever doing that. We would grab a FP for the headliner in the land we were in, then do the other rides while waiting for our time to open. It was great because those other rides didn't have FP crowds streaming in ahead of us while we waited in the slow moving standby line. If we showed up in a land and the headliner had no line, we just rode it. If it was raining, we didn't go for the BTMRR FP, we headed to Space instead. If someone was under the weather, we took it easy and headed to that park the next day.

And I liked it better when the crowds were not "controlled". It allowed us to zig when everyone else zagged.

True. But way lower then christmas and spring break.
When my kids hit high school I don't think we go as much as we do now.

Touring plans def change as life changes.

Agreed. But if crowds in general affect a given person's ability to have a good time at Disney, it's getting harder to have a good time at Disney.

 

[ps17]

The old FP system probably was stressful if you ran all over the park gathering FPs. We maximized FP without ever doing that. We would grab a FP for the headliner in the land we were in, then do the other rides while waiting for our time to open. It was great because those other rides didn't have FP crowds streaming in ahead of us while we waited in the slow moving standby line. If we showed up in a land and the headliner had no line, we just rode it. If it was raining, we didn't go for the BTMRR FP, we headed to Space instead. If someone was under the weather, we took it easy and headed to that park the next day.

And I liked it better when the crowds were not "controlled". It allowed us to zig when everyone else zagged.



Agreed. But if crowds in general affect a given person's ability to have a good time at Disney, it's getting harder to have a good time at Disney.

We had our vacation booked months in advance. We typically don't go the week between Christmas and New Years but were forced to this year due to other circumstances (were actually going to play in a baseball tourney). It isn't a huge dealbreaker but when Disney changed it's fireworks schedule or bad restaurant service caused us to miss a certain show, we were not able to adjust our touring plans - a lot of times not because of availability but because the MDE app failed or is clunky in user interface design.

Some posters have made the point that while our annual WDW trip has run its course, others are lined up to take our place, it certainly is true.

 

[ps17]

Sorry to hear your trip was less than stellar. You mentioned that it was a Disney/Universal trip. How was Universal?

I will reemphasize that we loved this trip just like the others. We were just reporting some aggravations with the system and also the fact that we are at a point in life where it is no longer an annual trip.

Regarding Universal, that trip was great as usual. Like WDW, we subscribe to the "rope drop" tour in the morning/pool in the afternoon. Only slight downer for UO was that the weather took a turn for the worse- cloudy, rainy etc. But it was fine. For UO, if you want to take advantage of onsite stay to visit Harry Potter attractions, showing up at 7 AM was the only way to go. We made that mistake the first day and as a result missed the Gringots and Forbidden Journey ride but we were there 4 days and as a result, had opportunity to go back in subsequent mornings.

The other slight annoyance with UO is that they sell so many express passes that for some of the rides - Mummy for example, the express line was longer than standby when we went. Again, not a huge deal but that negates a supposed perk of staying onsite.

UO execs have in fact "done it right" as far as leveraging Harry Potter. Not only did they add a whole second Harry Potter land in Diagon Alley, they added a premium ride (Gringots) to go with that along with Rockit that they added a few years ago. This is somewhat our comment about the mine train - that being the signature attraction of a new land is for us, slightly underwhelming. Although we won't do it, waiting 2 hours in line for new state of art attractions such as Gringots or even attractions such as Soarin, Toy Story, etc. might be justifiable for some. Mine train is worth FP+ or RD but certainly not the wait....

On NYD, we spent most of the day at the Hard Rock pool - got a great deal on cabana - just $75 so we basically hung out there and watchd the football games.

 

[ps17]

See in GREEN above.

JZ - fair enough regarding the appropriateness of Mine Train ride. Going back 15 years ago, I stood in line with my son (now in college) for almost an hour and a half to ride Dumbo standby but at least that spinning thing felt like you went around for some satisfying amount of time. Perhaps the point I was trying to make was that it cost them a chunk of money and some planning to put that ride there. The return on additional investment to make that ride just a little longer to make it worth the wait could have gone a long way.

See my comment in the previous post regarding the Gringots ride at UO. They have done a lot to make worth standing in line for two hours - if nothing else other than the ration of ride time divided by ride wait.

 

[JZCubed]

Perhaps the point I was trying to make was that it cost them a chunk of money and some planning to put that ride there. The return on additional investment to make that ride just a little longer to make it worth the wait could have gone a long way.

Fair enough. And I probably agree with you.

I have a related, somewhat, amusing story - Peter Pan ride is not something we usually do, but they had just opened the expanded queue through the Darling House days before we arrived and were willing to wait on the standby line 'late-ish' one evening. Well, the sign suggested 20 minutes......15 minutes later we had barely moved. Needless to say, we got off that line and walked-on to Under the Sea.

Under the Sea falls into my category of a ride that had great potential that is, to me - Meh. What bothers me: first, there is no noticeable new technology being used here. Second, I have always been annoyed at seeing the control rod coming out of Flounder while Ariel is singing 'Part of Your World'. And I never found the big room when they are playing 'Under the Sea' to be anything special....and no, I do not feel as if I am under the sea; I feel under the sea at the Little Mermaid show in Hollywood Studios.

On our last day and nearly moments before we needed to leave to the airport, the 7Dwarfs FP+ we had was rendered somewhat worthless because of being broken. In trying to reschedule at a Kiosk, a Cast Member gave us a FP+ for Peter Pan. We skipped the queue and remembered why we disliked the ride to begin with - too short (just like Winnie the Pooh and your complaint of 7Dwarfs).

On both Winnie & Peter Pan, Disney has added interactive things to do along the stand-by queue to address your concerns. But I come back to the fact that, I believe, these rides just were not intended to be for adult amusement, because just like 7Dwarfs, they are short in duration at the preference of little children. Then again, according to the data on DisBoards - Space Mountain and 7Dwarfs are both 2.5minute rides.

Hey, I'm not trying to convince you 7Dwarsf is a great ride, but we all have issues with some rides and we might find it helpful to remind ourselves the duration of even our favorites sometimes.

 

[ps17]

Fair enough. And I probably agree with you.

I have a related, somewhat, amusing story - Peter Pan ride is not something we usually do, but they had just opened the expanded queue through the Darling House days before we arrived and were willing to wait on the standby line 'late-ish' one evening. Well, the sign suggested 20 minutes......15 minutes later we had barely moved. Needless to say, we got off that line and walked-on to Under the Sea.

Under the Sea falls into my category of a ride that had great potential that is, to me - Meh. What bothers me: first, there is no noticeable new technology being used here. Second, I have always been annoyed at seeing the control rod coming out of Flounder while Ariel is singing 'Part of Your World'. And I never found the big room when they are playing 'Under the Sea' to be anything special....and no, I do not feel as if I am under the sea; I feel under the sea at the Little Mermaid show in Hollywood Studios.

On our last day and nearly moments before we needed to leave to the airport, the 7Dwarfs FP+ we had was rendered somewhat worthless because of being broken. In trying to reschedule at a Kiosk, a Cast Member gave us a FP+ for Peter Pan. We skipped the queue and remembered why we disliked the ride to begin with - too short (just like Winnie the Pooh and your complaint of 7Dwarfs).

On both Winnie & Peter Pan, Disney has added interactive things to do along the stand-by queue to address your concerns. But I come back to the fact that, I believe, these rides just were not intended to be for adult amusement, because just like 7Dwarfs, they are short in duration at the preference of little children. Then again, according to the data on DisBoards - Space Mountain and 7Dwarfs are both 2.5minute rides.

Hey, I'm not trying to convince you 7Dwarsf is a great ride, but we all have issues with some rides and we might find it helpful to remind ourselves the duration of even our favorites sometimes.

On the topic of new rides, have you been to UO lately and ridden transformers? Essentially it is spiderman respun into a massive robot fight theme (makes us feel ill like many rides at UO). It certainly was not cheap but it really doesn't do a whole lot for us either - that is an example of really? All that money invested for this? That said, the ride does have long waits and UO (Comcast) is doing what they feel then need to make people spend that sixth and seventh day at UO instead of Disney. it certainly has paid off for the time being - they have added a fourth hotel and are building 2 more I think.

 

[a1tinkfans]

We were just at DW with a couple of short visits before and after Christmas. We are veteran commando family who spent all day at the parks and utilized the legacy FP system to its fullest. It was amazing how many other park guests who did not know how the old FP system worked. Because they refused to do any research, they stood in long lines. Because they were on vacation and did not want to get up until noon, they stood in long lines. The uninformed guests complained and Disney decided to placate the newer guests at the expense of us, the dedicated Disney fans who already have invested their money in DVC and Annual Passes. I now have 3 visits to DW with the FP+ system and it stinks. Lines are longer everywhere and you still have uninformed guests who will still find new reasons to complain. You can not get a 4th FP on your phone or at a different park that you intend to visit next. When you go the kiosk, the only FP available are for rides that in the past did not need a FP nor should have a FP+ now. I believe that the FP+ system was created for the many guests (foreign & domestic) who use travel agents. The travel agents can make the ADR and FP+ reservations for their clients. The client can not complain that they never got to ride Toy Story Mania if the travel agent set it up … in my opinion.

Have to say... I hear ha! I'm disney addicted lol and we did not get on enough rides with the new system. The experience changed for me. However, I just can't give it up so I'll try n go at the least busy times...and hope for the best.

 

[JZCubed]

On the topic of new rides, have you been to UO lately and ridden transformers? Essentially it is spiderman respun into a massive robot fight theme (makes us feel ill like many rides at UO). It certainly was not cheap but it really doesn't do a whole lot for us either - that is an example of really? All that money invested for this? That said, the ride does have long waits and UO (Comcast) is doing what they feel then need to make people spend that sixth and seventh day at UO instead of Disney. it certainly has paid off for the time being - they have added a fourth hotel and are building 2 more I think.

Alas, no, we have not been to Universal yet.

Neither my wife nor I have been, and we each had attraction to Disney before we had a child and became DVC members. We try and maximize value from this sunk cost.

Also, Universal, while very appealing, still has too many rides that have a height restriction for my child. Another year or so, and we're there.

Matter of fact, now that my family plans reasonably far out in advance:
2015 - split stay @ Swan & Bay Lake (for 4th of July)
2016 - Bay Lake
2017 - Animal Kingdom & Universal (my kid should be tall enough).

Another connection for my wife & me is music. Hardrock Hotel for us!!

 

[rwdavis2]

Alas, no, we have not been to Universal yet.

Neither my wife nor I have been, and we each had attraction to Disney before we had a child and became DVC members. We try and maximize value from this sunk cost.

Also, Universal, while very appealing, still has too many rides that have a height restriction for my child. Another year or so, and we're there.

Matter of fact, now that my family plans reasonably far out in advance:
2015 - split stay @ Swan & Bay Lake (for 4th of July)
2016 - Bay Lake
2017 - Animal Kingdom & Universal (my kid should be tall enough).

Another connection for my wife & me is music. Hardrock Hotel for us!!

You will love Universal. Hard Rock beats most Disney hotels hands down. I enjoy both but UO is really ramping up their game.

 

[allie_to_you]

Hate that there were glitches that made your trip not as nice and wonderful as you expected it to be. We leave in a week and this will be our first foray into using the magic bands/memory maker and FP+ so interested to see what opinions we form about the whole thing.

Unfortunately however, even if Disney did everything perfectly and all the planning software/reservations systems worked without any problems, people would still find something to complain about or something they didn't like. You just can't please everyone!