Just back - some observations

[DaveO]

Just got back from 12/1 - 12/7

1. I am going to have to stop lurking here. I went to the World looking for things to be mad about. What did I find? NOTHING.

* There were plenty of busses and the same amount of boats on the Boardwalk.
* Although Epcot FW stated they were closing @ 7:00 they kept the most popular rides open until 9:30.
* Just as clean as always - And was especailly looking at this.
* Did not notice any decline in maintenance.
* Osborne Light are unbelievable.
* Candlelight Proccesional is absolutly inspiring.
* CMs were super friendly.

Also I went to IOA/US .... Here is goes:

1: US advertised they were open @ 9:00 - only THREE rides opened at 9:00 the rest opened at 10:00. Do we hear people complain about that on the IOA board - NO.
2. What is so great about the themeing of the the IOA coasters?? The Hulk is just painted green and the dueling dragons has a great queue thats it - no story. IMHO RNR is much better themed and has a story line that is incorporated into the ride itself. It might be off the self and not as thrilling but it is better themed.
3. Most of the IOA themeing was bright colors and cardboard cutouts of superheros and cartoon characters. What is so original about that?
4. CMs were HORRIBLE - Not friendly and I actually felt like the rides where NOT safe as they had teenage kids running them and they were not paying attention and fooling around. When I went back to WDW I specifiaclly noticed the ride operators and they were very professioal. I was so mad about this I am going to write IOA.
5. Spiderman is AWESOME - Best ride in Orlando. (But I am waiting for Space!!)
6. Rides and resteraunts were closed.

That all being said I will go back to IOA because I liked the coasters - But I do not understand all of the comparisions with WDW and that IOA is far superior. I did not find that to be the case. Yes they have some great coasters and Spiderman. Also I did think some of the lands especially Port of Entry and the Mythical part has great themimg on par with Disney. The other areas were lacking.

DinoRama - My wife who is not a Disney nut thought is was a great addition to the Dinoland area (we do have a 1yo). Once the whole area is complete I see this as being a good addition to AK.

I guess the bottom line of this whole thread is that some folks hold Disney to unrealistic standards - I did not see the magic fading at all. And as I said I went looking to find faults with Disney and praise for IOA. I get frustrated when forks say they are cancelling Disney trips and spending time at Universal because of the PERCIEVED differences. All the while US/IOA are making the same cuts - they just do not have the Sentenial down thier backs.

I did not receive a IOA/US discount because 75% of the park did not open until 10:00am. In effect it was a 10:00 am opening with 9:00am early entry.

Going back in April - but this time with a better attitude.

Dave O.

 

[Bob O]

The main aspect of dueling dragons is the dueling/collison aspect and if they arent dueling the ride would suffer but it still better than any disney coaster created.
I dont like disney using people like areosmith as part of their prop(unless you glorify drug/alcohol usage in a family park). The indoor themeing was just cutouts and bright lights in the dark but the ride itself isnt as thrilling or enjoyable as HULK IMHO. The launch of Hulk was better, the tunnel and inversions were better and ride capacity is also better. I' ll take a B & M over a vekoma anyday.

 

[DaveO]

Bob - I agree with you that the two rides are more thrilling - But people have argued that they are better themed thus out doing Disney in that area. In my opinion I did not see that. Plus ALL of Marvel island were just cutouts and bright paint. Yes RNR just has cutouts but it incorporated the story into the ride.

Dave O.

 

[YoHo]

Personally, I prefer Aerosmith who have sobered up and are very anti Drug to a band that perhaps hasn't sobered up yet.

 

[Bob O]

DaveO i would agree the theming OF DD isnt great but the ride is meant to be the aspect of the coasters almost hitting each other but the theme of the ride que is excellant.
Yoho what would disney do if some member of areosmith goes off the wagon and gets involved in a serious incident(which is very possible when you look at the relapse rate of drunks and drug addicts)??? Close the ride itself??? Change the movie to another band?? Even a supposedly sobered up aerosmith doesnt protray a clean cut/wholesome family image does it?? If eisner is so worried he is changing jokes in movie scripts wouldnt he have been worried about this also??

 

[Another Voice]

“Plus ALL of Marvel island were just cutouts and bright paint. Yes RNR just has cutouts but it incorporated the story into the ride.”

Well, isn’t Marvel Island supposed to represent a comic book world – two dimensional and filled with bright primary colors? Seems to me that cutouts and bright colors work there.

I’ve never seen a cutout day-glow palm tree while I’ve been driving the L.A. freeways, so how does they make RnR a superior ride?

Unless, of course, it’s supposed to represent Aerosmith’s perception of L.A. in their pre-sober years….

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Peter!!! What are you talking about???!!!???

 

[Peter Pirate]

Did I say something???

 

[DaveO]

This is the issue I have. It is OK for IOA to have cutouts and bright colors because it works. But when Disney does it it is cheap and out of place. What do you want them to put in a coaster going 60MPH?? What would make the anti-Disney folks happy? Some detailed scenes that no one will be able to see bacause they are going so fast?

What happened to the theory of they theming it cheap so they can build it cheap? Does that not aplpy to IOA as well? Couldn't IOA have biult a Gotham type town as in the Spiderman ride? But they went the cheap way.

I smell some double standards .....

Dave O.

 

[Peter Pirate]

DaveO, you've hit the nail on the head and I suspect some the opposition might even agree. The fact is that Dsney IS held to a higher standard. This, of course, makes comparisons to other Parks nearly impossible or skewed, to say the least. Aside from your observation, have you also noticed all of the people lately complaining about the Disney cutbacks - saying they're going to IOA or Busch because Disney in't treating them right? Like US & Busch haven't cut back? Like their employees are on a par with CM's? Or their prices are cheaper than Disney? Disney is just the Company that many love to hate, I guess...Or hold to that floating "higher standard".

To me RnR is a Great Disney Coaster. I love the 'rock concert' theme. Aerosmith comes across very well, the music is all american and the attraction has a great hook (the launch) and then an easy, smooth ride, which (IMO) is typically Disney. Some people think the cut-outs cheap, the alley scene cheesy & Areosmith inappropriate. Not me, It is easily one of my families favorite rides.

So Dave, I'm right with you on your obsevations & even your observations on your observations!

 

[All Aboard]

What cardboard cut-outs are we talking about here? I don't recall Marvel Super Hero Island to be composed of cardboard cut-outs. I think the look and feel of that section of IOA is great. It is very well themed to the subject matter. It's loud, has lots of bold color, the buildings look terrific. Makes me feel like I've been dropped into a Marvel Comic.

I don't have a beef with any of the "islands" at IOA. I think they are all very well done.

 

[OnWithTheShow]

Forks are canceling their trips? But then how will we eat? The situation is much more severe then we thought. You all better make sure to bring some fork friends next time so you can enjoy all the delicious food (especially Mama Melrose's).

 

[d-r]

Aerosmith is about as middle of the road and mainstream as you can get. Jeez, what would they do if Bill Nye or Ellen or Rick Moranis or Whoopie or Eric Idel or Micheal Jackson were involved in an incident? Well, scratch the last one.

DR

 

[larworth]

I have to side with gcurling. I think the effort IOA put into theming in general is up to Disney standards (see exceptions). Marvel Island has a different feel, and I can understand the comments about the superhero icons. It just doesn’t give me the feel of being cheap. I think some of the work in the Lost Continent and JP is as good as anything domestic.

The most glaring exception is DDragons. Once you leave the station I definitely feel like I’m at Six Flags. You see storage buildings, chain link fences, weeds. A poor job of allocating money between the queue and the ride surroundings (the queue should really be made into a separate walk-through interactive attraction).

The Hulk doesn’t have these problems, but it is not themed ala BTMRR. If this is the standard, than none of the recent external coasters (Hulk, CA Screamin, Primeval Whirl) makes the cut. It will be interesting to see if Reign of Fire is totally in the dark, or if it will have some external elements and how these get handled.

I think Aeorosmith has been an excellent choice for RnR coaster. Now, if they would just get around to connecting up the rest of the track. I have to believe there is another minute of ride time in there somewhere they haven’t opened up yet. They didn’t really only design it to be a 1:20 ride did they? Anyone seen the place with the lights on?

 

[Another Voice]

“The fact is that Dsney IS held to a higher standard.”

Perhaps that’s because The Company spends several hundred million dollars a year telling me that and more than a few posters scream about “magic like no where else” every chance they get. The reason many of us in the rabid, menacing “anti-Disney” mob first became fans of The Company was because of those higher standards. Perhaps to us pitch-fork wheedling “anti-Disney” types, perhaps “excellence” requires more than a brand name, perhaps it requires effort.

Funny but when Disney is actually held to those higher standards, those same people “pro-Disney” people scream that Disney is a company and that everyone else is doing the same thing. I go back to the original point of the post – if “cut-outs and bright paint” make ‘Marvel Island’ cheap and tawdry, and if we apply the same standards to ‘Rock’n Rollercoaster’, doesn’t that mean the ride is cheap and tawdry also? And on the flip side, if cutouts and black light paint are perfect ‘RnR’ themeing, why the double standard for ‘Marvel’ – why okay for Los Angeles and not a comic book? (Granted, there’s not much real in real L.A. anyway, but just for the sake of discussion).

Besides the brand name – why is the double standard applied here? And if Marvel Island is cheap, compare that to Dino-Rama. And if the criteria for “too fast to see anything” applies, what about all the detail on Big Thunder Mountain. Have people’s eyesight deteriorated so much in the last fifteen years? Why on not rip out the town (by show of hands, how many people actually can see the flooded out town on the ride?) and other themeing on the ride, and replace it with RnR cutouts? Again, the same logic being applied. Besides, wasn’t Disney know for the layers and layers of detail that isn’t noticed by the casual observer – that’s what used to make them “special”?

The frustration of us torch-bearing “anti-Disney” folks is that every time we try to hold Disney to its own standards, every time we try to push for even greater excellence – we’re meet by the gang of “Eisner-wraiths” telling us that less is better and to shut-up. There is a belief that simply naming something “Disney” makes it “magical”.

Well folks, it doesn’t. I don’t believe for a second that “Universal Studios’ Rock-n-Rollercoaster Starring Aerosmith” would be defended for a split second or that it would be proclaimed as a fine family attraction with the same force that “Disney’s Rock-n-Rollercoaster” is defended around here. Reality may be perception and personal preference can mean a lot, but cold hard facts have a way of working their way to the surface over time.

Like any other company, Disney doesn’t set the standards - its customers do. Defending Disney by saying it’s no worse than of the other companies out there simply means Disney is no better than any of the other companies out there.

 

[Safari Steve]

You don't have any problems with a company that from it's opening day had mostly 'PG-13' attractions, and up until the year before IOA opened, had very few guidelines involving employee appearance, conduct, or attitude? When I went to US for the first time at age 14, I was sworn at by an employee. When we complained, we were told "so what?" And as far as Dave's assumption that some of the attractions at UO's original park are not safe, I'd have to agree after a personal tour with their head ride/show manager, who was very embarrassed by the middle of the tour, to say the least.

Oh yes, and not only do the AB and UO parks cost the same (for alot less in many cases), but Busch was the first company in FL to have admission tickets top the $50 mark.

 

[kamgen]

I just returned from 8 days at WDW and toured all the parks, DTD, and BB. All I can say is that the Disney magic is alive and well.
And the only thing I noticed that was bad was all the rude people who "act" like they are having a good time when all they are doing is complaining.

Should we compare US/IOA with WDW??? NO! They are not the same thing and are not trying to be. Let it go.

If you like them both, more power to you. If you dislike one of them, don't go there. It is simple ya know?!?!....

Kamy

 

[Bob O]

Dave O What i want is for disney to build a world class thrill coaster, not a tame one with some cheap cutouts!! Not one hidden inside a building but one outside that is a long ride with extreme elements, not a family coaster like all their coasters but a coaster that would scare alot of people from riding. Or if not a coaster why not something unique like Spiderman still is! Mission space hopefully will fit the bill.

 

[Peter Pirate]

Mission Space will hopefully fit the bill

And maybe not. Bob O, like it or not Disney has NEVER been interested in this medium. They are "thrilling" those of us who DO NOT want the "world class" stomach convulsions, yet still feel accomplished at riding an exciting roller coaster (our opinion). Now as discussion has occured on this very subject many times, I will admit that the possibility exists that Disney could someday enter this arena, but general consensus is that this will only be when the profitabilty can be both quantified and qualified...don't hold your breath.

 

[DaveO]

AV - What do mean 'cold hard facts' ? What you are talking about is personal taste. When I asked my party of 8 what they liked best - Spiderman, ToT, and RnR toped the list. The non- Disney nuts even made a comment about how IOA employees must be 'Disney rejects'.

'Magic' is not just rides. I would even argue it is less than 25%. When I go to Dinsey it it the feel and CMs that make the magic. I do not know how many CMs stoped to say hello to my 1 yo son and played with him. How many warm hellos and good evenings. How many 'Welcome Home' greetings we got being a part of DVC. How the CM stoped to help us with our carriage multiple times. When they screwed up our dinner reservations, how they gave us $50 worth of free appitizers, appologized profusely, and personally escorted us to front row seats at Fantasmic. It is the Osbore Light and Candlelight Prosessional. That is that is the Magic. No other place can compete - at least for me.

What did I get at IOA - empoyees who did not look at you. No hellos. And kids fooling around running rides while they were not even pretending to pay attention to the safty of guests.

Because one ride is more thrilling does not make it better for some folks. For my 1 yo Dumbo and Alaladin are thrill rides. I still will hold on to my belief that RnR and even Space Mountain are far superior in theming than Hulk and DD.

Thunder Mtn does not go 60MPH upside down. The flooded town scene is also there for the folks (not forks - sorry for typo - picky picky) on the train.

All my post tried to do is pursuade all lurkers that US/IOA are making the SAME IF NOT MORE cutbacks as Disney - There are just not as many people whining about it.

I am not saying cutbacks are good - but if people are making decisions based on what they read here they need to get the correct story.

Now back to lurking - let the flaming begin ......

Dave O.