Just Arrived, Triple Dipping

[Laketravis]

With regards to this whole thread, parking loopholes, FP loopholes...

I'm sure we've all been at a cash till before where the teller provides incorrect change. Maybe they grab a 10 rather than a five and hand it over for change. When this has happened to me in the past, I certainly bring it to their attention. Would you just take the money and run, KNOWING that they have made an error which just happens to be in your favor?

Legitimize it however you like, if you are consciously flouting rules you know exist "because you can", you are being dishonest. Reprehensible.

It has NOTHING to do with moral superiority, and everything to do with being a member of a civilized society. I realize that this point is largely lost, as the majority of society no longer believes in civility. This said, I mentioned NOTHING about theft in my post. That is your own inference.

Would it be wrong to take the extra 5 dollars the teller gave you? Technically not, as you are not responsible for their actions, or their businesses practices. You could see that extra 5 dollars as a gift, or customer appreciation. You, after all are not omniscient. Or you could do the reasonable civilized act of returning what was given in error.

It is not overly complex or difficult to understand that for each person who "triple dips" ride capacity is being lost for 2 other people on that ride. Yes you CAN triple dip, but should you? Is the reduced ride capacity your problem? No, but you could be a part of the solution, or you can let your selfish needs override common decency and take all you can get.

It's possible your posts only makes sense to you, because you are truly comparing apples to oranges. The clerk is not aware they made a mistake; Disney is fully aware of the details of the transaction and approved the transaction.

Morals are based on values. Values are based on beliefs. If you believe that requesting Disney's permission to obtain and use a FastPass by providing media for examination by Disney in granting that request and receiving such permission is wrong, then you are certainly free to follow your conscience and not request that permission in the first place.

But to accuse others of being morally wrong, dishonest, or reprehensible simply because they don't share the same beliefs as yourself is, well....ignorant.

 

[PlayaMan]

Interesting that one would say that just because the media is accepted and verified by Disney and it hands out an FP, that it somehow justifies any sort of possible loopholes.

Taking that logic one step forward, if my bank's ATM recognizes and verifies my ATM card and I do an account balance check and there is more money showing in my account that it is an obvious mistake on the part of the bank. Furthermore, the bank has been changing its fee schedules and has increased the amount I have to pay for any of their services. Would I somehow be justified in withdrawing all my available money from my account when I know that something is obviously wrong? I mean I got my bank's "permission" according to the logic that because my card and account were verified then I am free to take advantage of any mistakes or loopholes.

Dont get me wrong, I am all for double dipping within the bounds of this test. I think that Disney should have allowed this during this period. But it is quite different to use a KTTW card that was given to you on your current trip and use the FP+ system than it is to use previous trip's cards or any other media just because the FP machines accept it and spits out an FP.

 

[Mad Hattered]

What is about to begin?

When there are no more FP- machines to pull any Fps from. Everyone will have their 3 FP per day in one park only unless they change it up suddenly.

 

[Laketravis]

Taking that logic one step forward, if my bank's ATM recognizes and verifies my ATM card and I do an account balance check and there is more money showing in my account that it is an obvious mistake on the part of the bank.

I would certainly agree with you when the result of the transaction is unintentional (a mistake).

But there is no evidence that Disney is making mistakes and that providing FP's when certain media is inserted is unintentional. They are obviously aware of it, CM's observe it at most FP machines, and Disney is the only entity who knows (and can change) what the programming rules are that allow an FP to be printed based on the media inserted.

 

[mom2rtk]

Interesting that one would say that just because the media is accepted and verified by Disney and it hands out an FP, that it somehow justifies any sort of possible loopholes.

Taking that logic one step forward, if my bank's ATM recognizes and verifies my ATM card and I do an account balance check and there is more money showing in my account that it is an obvious mistake on the part of the bank. Furthermore, the bank has been changing its fee schedules and has increased the amount I have to pay for any of their services. Would I somehow be justified in withdrawing all my available money from my account when I know that something is obviously wrong? I mean I got my bank's "permission" according to the logic that because my card and account were verified then I am free to take advantage of any mistakes or loopholes.

Dont get me wrong, I am all for double dipping within the bounds of this test. I think that Disney should have allowed this during this period. But it is quite different to use a KTTW card that was given to you on your current trip and use the FP+ system than it is to use previous trip's cards or any other media just because the FP machines accept it and spits out an FP.

If you're for double dipping, then surely you would be in favor of double dipping for everyone. What about the guest who purchased their tickets from Disney and doesn't have separate ticket media?

What about the poor guests who stayed at Pop and All-Stars over the past month and were flat out refused when they asked for a separate ticket to use in the FP machines? How is that fair?

 

[Laketravis]

When there are no more FP- machines to pull any Fps from. Everyone will have their 3 FP per day in one park only unless they change it up suddenly.

Which will most likely provide much more fuel for debate than anything we've seen thus far.

 

[Mad Hattered]

Which will most likely provide much more fuel for debate than anything we've seen thus far.

I haven't tried my Chainmail suit on for quite some time. I better break that out soon to make sure it still fits.

 

[PlayaMan]

I would certainly agree with you when the result of the transaction is unintentional (a mistake).

But there is no evidence that Disney is making mistakes and that providing FP's when certain media is inserted is unintentional. They are obviously aware of it, CM's observe it at most FP machines, and Disney is the only entity who knows (and can change) what the programming rules are that allow an FP to be printed based on the media inserted.

There have been varying reports that people have been using a wide variety of cards, from anything with a mag stripe to old KTTW cards, to insert into the FP machines in order to try and get FPs. Some of these have been reported to work while others have not.

Do you honestly believe that it has been the intention of Disney since the rollout of FP+, that people use any/all media to try to get FPs? Or was it more likely a flaw in the programming where the "switch" in the software could only be turned all off or all on? Again, Disney's responsibility. But the responsibility falls on the user to not try to take advantage of any loopholes within the system.

Do you think that CMs are encouraging people to try to use KTTW cards from previous trips at these FP machine?

And back to the ATM machine. If the bank made an error on my account and I know that I am not entitled to that money but my ATM card and the ATM machine is allowing me to withdraw every cent of the money. I can not then come back to the bank and say since it was your fault, I should be able to keep the money.

I understand that all this will be moot very soon. But I do not buy the argument that just because a system, FP machines in this case, allows loopholes, that people should take advantage of them.

 

[Laketravis]

Do you honestly believe that it has been the intention of Disney since the rollout of FP+, that people use any/all media to try to get FPs? Or was it more likely a flaw in the programming where the "switch" in the software could only be turned all off or all on? Again, Disney's responsibility.

Perhaps, but evidence suggests there is enough information embedded on any card media to identify when that card was issued and what period of time it was valid for, whether or not it was used to gain admission to the park that day, etc.

So yes, I think that even if Disney hadn't intended it, they could easily stop it provided:

1. They are aware of the condition
2. They can identify the condition
3. They can respond to the condition

I think they are fully capable of all three.

 

[PlayaMan]

Perhaps, but evidence suggests there is enough information embedded on any card media to identify when that card was issued and what period of time it was valid for, whether or not it was used to gain admission to the park that day, etc.

So yes, I think that even if Disney hadn't intended it, they could easily stop it provided:

1. They are aware of the condition
2. They can identify the condition
3. They can respond to the condition

I think they are fully capable of all three.

Interesting. Do you believe that there is no responsibility on the user when it comes to exploiting a system?

We are not in the position to know exactly how "easy" it would have been for Disney's IT to stop it. According to most on this board, Disney's IT is HIGHLY incompetent. I find it strange they are held up as competent in programming FP machines, but woefully inadequate for any other IT task.

Back to the ATM machine. If the ATM machine verifies my identity and account info, then I am free to do as I please with the results of said verification?

 

[Planogirl]

Are you seriously arguing the morality of using a system that is about to disappear? Does it really matter now?

Oh why not. I think that triple dipping is a bit much but I guess that I don't take it seriously enough to see much importance in it. Double dipping was encouraged from my understanding so I don't see why the morality of that is even a consideration.

 

[Laketravis]

Interesting. Do you believe that there is no responsibility on the user when it comes to exploiting a system?

Well, now we're back to me putting a card in a machine and "asking" Disney if it's okay if I get a FastPass, and if Disney says it's okay by giving me one, I am somehow exploiting the system.

It's a circular argument.

Like PlanoGirl said, this won't be an issue soon.

 

[PlayaMan]

Well, now we're back to me putting a card in a machine and "asking" Disney if it's okay if I get a FastPass, and if Disney says it's okay by giving me one, I am somehow exploiting the system.

It's a circular argument.

Like PlanoGirl said, this won't be an issue soon.

No argument at all since you refuse to discuss and stick to your one contention.

But that is OK because like i acknowledged as well, it will all be moot soon.

 

[dayvewc]

Well, now we're back to me putting a card in a machine and "asking" Disney if it's okay if I get a FastPass, and if Disney says it's okay by giving me one, I am somehow exploiting the system.

It's a circular argument.

Like PlanoGirl said, this won't be an issue soon.

So, just being a bit contrary, in the days when coke machines would dispense a drink if you dropped in slugs instead of coins, the fact that you "inserted a media" and it delivered a product would be not be "exploiting the system", correct?

 

[princessallegra]

Are you seriously arguing the morality of using a system that is about to disappear? Does it really matter now?

Oh why not. I think that triple dipping is a bit much but I guess that I don't take it seriously enough to see much importance in it. Double dipping was encouraged from my understanding so I don't see why the morality of that is even a consideration.

I just think it's wack the op steals parking and is totally cool with that. That's my only beef lol. Using a fp past the time window or triple dipping is not the same as cheating your way out of paying $15 a day to park. just saying. That's all, I just feel gross doing stuff like that. It doesn't make me feel good to steal and cheat (parking) even from a huge company who gave me a pubey hotel room. Everyone is different. I wouldn't feel good doing that by myself, let alone with my family along.

 

[Planogirl]

I just think it's wack the op steals parking and is totally cool with that. That's my only beef lol. Using a fp past the time window or triple dipping is not the same as cheating your way out of paying $15 a day to park. just saying. That's all, I just feel gross doing stuff like that. It doesn't make me feel good to steal and cheat (parking) even from a huge company who gave me a pubey hotel room. Everyone is different. I wouldn't feel good doing that by myself, let alone with my family along.

I agree that stealing parking is a different topic. I think that parking rates are outrageous but I would never consider not paying.

 

[Mad Hattered]

Speaking of stealing...I think we should all start arguing about Disney raising the cost of the Dining Plan over 6% for 2014.

 

[dayvewc]

Speaking of stealing...I think we should all start arguing about Disney raising the cost of the Dining Plan over 6% for 2014.

Yep. I think any increase above cost of living or inflation is considered stealing. Now, if I just could figure out how to perform a citizens arrest on a corporation?

 

[princessallegra]

Speaking of stealing...I think we should all start arguing about Disney raising the cost of the Dining Plan over 6% for 2014.

Now that's gross. We only ever do the dining plan now if there's a really good cm friends and family discount. Our friend is a cm down there. Otherwise there's literally no value whatsoever and you are just pre paying for meals...

 

[plumsiren]

It has NOTHING to do with moral superiority, and everything to do with being a member of a civilized society. I realize that this point is largely lost, as the majority of society no longer believes in civility. This said, I mentioned NOTHING about theft in my post. That is your own inference.

Would it be wrong to take the extra 5 dollars the teller gave you? Technically not, as you are not responsible for their actions, or their businesses practices. You could see that extra 5 dollars as a gift, or customer appreciation. You, after all are not omniscient. Or you could do the reasonable civilized act of returning what was given in error.

It is not overly complex or difficult to understand that for each person who "triple dips" ride capacity is being lost for 2 other people on that ride. Yes you CAN triple dip, but should you? Is the reduced ride capacity your problem? No, but you could be a part of the solution, or you can let your selfish needs override common decency and take all you can get.

Thank goodness, someone who gets it!

For the morally sound: Can I expect do deal with a vengeful almighty because in the old days I used FP- after the return window printed on it? I know everybody did it but now that I think about it, will that practice skirt detection at judgment time?

Why does everyone think morality = religion? I happen to be agnostic, thanks.