Juneteenth set to become a federal holiday in the USA

[Cheburashka]

This is not a good start to having a respectable, constructive conversation.

I understand that view but slavery existed in different forms in American society since its founding. Our diversity makes us stronger as a country but common adversity in our pasts unites us as one people. Like I said earlier, MLK Jr Day means so much to all races not just one.

Stating the truth is an excellent way to continue a conversation. Calling indentured servitude, a voluntary state in which people exchanged 7 years of labor for the ability to escape poverty and/or oppression in Europe for a new life of freedom and opportunity in America, another "form of slavery", comparable to the experience of kidnapped Africans who endured the Middle Passage and then lifelong, brutal chattel slavery in the U.S., and watched the experience be passed on to their children, many of whom were born from nonconsensual relationships with their owners, is pathetic and offensive.

 

[TheIncredibles!]

It is not your holiday. And not your country alone. It’s not a slang term and has historical context to it. Maybe take a minute and look it up?

If this post is real and not satire, it represents everything wrong with this conversation.

Nope it's real. I hate the name. I am not uninformed. Why do people always get uptight and make assumptions that people with differing opinions are somehow uninformed?

If this is not also my holiday then why is it a federal holiday? I firmly believe in this holiday, have for a very long time. I despise the name. I would prefer a more formal name for this holiday. Now I will be very nice and ALLOW you to have a differing opinion without trying to toss shade or put you down. It's awesome when adults behave that way.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

This is not a good start to having a respectable, constructive conversation.

I understand that view but slavery existed in different forms in American society since its founding. Our diversity makes us stronger as a country but common adversity in our pasts unites us as one people. Like I said earlier, MLK Jr Day means so much to all races not just one.

100% agree with the first part.

As to the second, nobody is saying Juneteenth should only matter to Blacks. It SHOULD matter to all of us. But it’s disingenuous to pretend like it matters in the same way. That it carries the same magnitude. It can’t. Similar to MLK Jr Day.

 

[Buzz Rules]

Stating the truth is an excellent way to continue a conversation. Calling indentured servitude, a voluntary state in which people exchanged 7 years of labor for the ability to escape poverty in Europe for a new life in America, another "form of slavery", comparable to the experience of kidnapped Africans who endured the Middle Passage and then lifelong, brutal chattel slavery in the U.S., and watched the experience be passed on to their children, many of whom were born from nonconsensual relationships with their owners, is pathetic and offensive.

I’m not saying direct slavery isn’t worse than indentured servitude. I’m saying everyone has a right to feel they can relate to an important holiday if they choose. I mean no disrespect.

 

[Skywalker]

But, the thing is I think most people's opposition to the name actually IS the result of being white and feeling uncomfortable with it because it sounds too "black". So I think this is really something where race and background affects how people feel. I do agree with you that having a conversation with opinions and feelings from a variety of perspectives is important, but I think it would be impossible to have a real dialogue without acknowledging that race does play a role in those opinions and feelings.

An analogy would be a black community making a sign for an event that used African-American Vernacular English and white individuals coming along and saying, "You need to change the wording on this sign to make it more 'proper' and grammatically correct. Having a sign that says this will make some people uncomfortable." Sure, those folks' opinions are valid that having a sign with AAVE will probably make it less universally appealing. But that doesn't mean the black community should automatically change the sign just to appease the white people who are bothered. That would be a good opportunity for both communities to have an honest conversation about why they feel that way and then weighing the pros and cons of a new sign rather than just assuming one is right and one is wrong.

I don't think its helpful to assume someone's opinions are because of their race. I think people can disagree with an opinion without pinning it on some stereotype of race, isn't that more helpful in moving things ahead?

My mother is black, and she thinks the name is stupid so. Maybe I just hate people treating "the black community" (or "the white community" for that matter) as though it is some type of homogeneous blob or Borg Collective.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Nope it's real. I hate the name. I am not uninformed. Why do people always get uptight and make assumptions that people with differing opinions are somehow uninformed?

If this is not also my holiday then why is it a federal holiday? I firmly believe in this holiday, have for a very long time. I despise the name. I would prefer a more formal name for this holiday. Now I will be very nice and ALLOW you to have a differing opinion without trying to toss shade or put you down. It's awesome when adults behave that way.

You didn’t say “also my holiday”. You said “MY holiday and MY country”. Very different things. And you came across as uninformed because you completely ignored the historical significance of the name by calling it slang. Believe it or not, choice of wording does matter. You do realize the irony of your last two sentences right?

 

[TheIncredibles!]

100% agree with the first part.

As to the second, nobody is saying Juneteenth should only matter to Blacks. It SHOULD matter to all of us. But it’s disingenuous to pretend like it matters in the same way. That it carries the same magnitude. It can’t. Similar to MLK Jr Day.

No holiday matters in the same way to everybody. Memorial Day is very important to me for many reasons. Others have a different reason for "celebrating" that day. For many it's just another day off and the unofficial start to summer. Ok.

 

[TheIncredibles!]

You didn’t say “also my holiday”. You said “MY holiday and MY country”. Very different things. And you came across as uninformed because you completely ignored the historical significance of the name by calling it slang. Believe it or not, choice of wording does matter. You do realize the irony of your last two sentences right?

It is ALSO my holiday. I am entitled to not like the name and to want something I feel is more appropriate for the importance of this holiday. Really it is ok for me to think that

 

[TippyThomas]

It won't be long now...

 

[Cheburashka]

I’m not saying direct slavery isn’t worse than indentured servitude. I’m saying everyone has a right to feel they can relate to an important holiday if they choose. I mean no disrespect.

I was responding directly to a poster who said that American slavery wasn't only suffered by black people, which is a lie.

The post wasn't about "relating to the holiday". It was an attempt to falsify history.

 

[soccerdad72]

For what it's worth, the official day is now going to be known as "Juneteenth National Independence Day", so it does have a more descriptive name than just Juneteenth.

 

[Heigh-Ho]

Mods please monitor the thread so it doesn’t end up locked.

Sometimes conversations, hard conversations, happen and then the thread continues on, circle of the discussion. The mods typically would just close the thread instead of what I think you're getting at which they would just delete posts, that's not typically how it works so by you asking them to monitor the thread they will likely just lock it (their call of course but that's normally what happens).

 

[Buzz Rules]

I was responding directly to a poster who said that American slavery wasn't only suffered by black people, which is a lie.

The post wasn't about "relating to the holiday". It was an attempt to falsify history.

Is this directed at me? There were different forms of slavery up until 1865. That was my point.

 

[stitch'sgirl]

Funny, the notice my Army husband got at 2 pm yesterday said that everyone had the day off and the building would be closed. Must be different Generals.

Perhaps we are in different time zones. Biden didn't broadcast until 3:45 pm EST. Unacceptable. "Funny" wasn't the word I was thinking. OPM's hands were tied until after the announcement.

 

[Cheburashka]

There were different forms of slavery up until 1865.

No, there weren't. Indentured servitude wasn't slavery.

 

[Buzz Rules]

No, there weren't.

 

[J'aime Paris]

First heard of Juneteenth last year.

Just looked up if there are any schedules celebrations close to where I reside.
A 2nd annual parade will be held tomorrow.

 

[Cheburashka]

I'll quote myself from an earlier post:

Calling indentured servitude, a voluntary state in which people exchanged 7 years of labor for the ability to escape poverty in Europe for a new life in America, another "form of slavery", comparable to the experience of kidnapped Africans who endured the Middle Passage and then lifelong, brutal chattel slavery in the U.S., and watched the experience be passed on to their children, many of whom were born from nonconsensual relationships with their owners, is pathetic and offensive.

 

[TheIncredibles!]

Is this directed at me? There were different forms of slavery up until 1865. That was my point.

Technically yes but one was like a temporary prison sentence and one was a life sentence. KWIM? "Our" (yuck) ancestors were well versed in how to treat people like dirt before they came to the US and then took things to a whole new very low level.

My great-grandfather was a decorated war hero, he was also a servant in a wealthy household. He left England to come to the US, leaving his wife and kids behind, so he could have a choice. Many servants were tied into their families and if they tried to leave to find work elsewhere they would be blacklisted(I am sure there's a more formal word for is and I am sure somebody will come along and correct me ) But many were "prisoners" of their employers. You worked for them under the conditions they specified or you wouldn't work anywhere ever again.

He left, paid his dues here for a few years then was free to be the man he was in the end. ****ty but not even close..

 

[starry_solo]

So, apparently in CA, Juneteenth has been a holiday since the early 2000s. It's not a paid state holiday, though.