Interesting read about the Disney World firefighters

[Mappyland]

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/bus...0190517-wuin256jerdohkngcufsdsltnu-story.html

Thoughts?

 

[cdoc29]

Their is not enough information in the article to really form a good opinion.

Has the call volume increased since the last time staffing was updated and by how much?
Are Firefighters being held past their scheduled shifts to help provide coverage?
How many calls are being handled by mutual aid ( a concept where neighboring jurisdictions will assist each other in times of need)
Is the the ReedyCreek Fire Department scratching on calls due to not enough people?

A good union president taking their case to the media would have given these facts to bolster their cause.

On the other hand Disney has been known to be anti-union and hostile towards organized labor and the RCID Fire Department had to go to mediation last time (2016) which they were successful in presenting their case there.

 

[Mappyland]

Their is not enough information in the article to really form a good opinion.

Has the call volume increased since the last time staffing was updated and by how much?
Are Firefighters being held past their scheduled shifts to help provide coverage?
How many calls are being handled by mutual aid ( a concept where neighboring jurisdictions will assist each other in times of need)
Is the the ReedyCreek Fire Department scratching on calls due to not enough people?

A good union president taking their case to the media would have given these facts to bolster their cause.

On the other hand Disney has been known to be anti-union and hostile towards organized labor and the RCID Fire Department had to go to mediation last time (2016) which they were successful in presenting their case there.

Very good points.

 

[rteetz]

How many calls are being handled by mutual aid ( a concept where neighboring jurisdictions will assist each other in times of need)

I'd like to know how this works with Disney/Reedy Creek in general. Are they like most other cities in the country where they just call neighboring jurisdictions to assist or is there more too it because Reedy Creek isn't your typical city?

 

[writerguyfl]

I'd like to know how this works with Disney/Reedy Creek in general. Are they like most other cities in the country where they just call neighboring jurisdictions to assist or is there more too it because Reedy Creek isn't your typical city?

From the linked article:
"In 2018, the county fire made 55 mutual aid calls with Reedy Creek with another 20 calls that were jointly responded to because they came near both county and Disney jurisdiction. The Reedy Creek help was a fraction of the 135,000 calls dispatched, according to the department."

Doing the math, less than 0.06% of all calls involved Orange County Fire Rescue in 2018.

I have no clue what the "normal" percentage is in other parts of the country. But, I'd say that less than 1% essentially means Reedy Creek Fire and Rescue is a self-sufficient agency.

Seems like the best course of action would be to track that percentage as new facilities are opened. If it jumps up, that means more personnel are needed.

Similarly, if some of the things cdoc29 mentions (especially something like forced overtime due to lack of personnel), that's a clear indication that more personnel are needed.

As someone who thrives on data when making important decisions, this statement perfectly sums up my opinion on this subject:

A good union president taking their case to the media would have given these facts to bolster their cause.

 

[donsullivan]

This is the same firefighters union that tried to get legislation passed in Florida this year to modify the act that created the RCID specifically and only to benefit the firefighters union because they didn't get their way in their last contract negotiations. They tried to hide it under a distraction about the Nuclear Power Plant provisions in the RCID act but it was all about the firefighters union not getting their way.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/bus...0190515-6evvfoprhvhpfhiagkbqxajd54-story.html

There seems to be no end to their demands to get what he wants, the way he wants it and he is manipulating the media and even trying to manipulate state legislators to get his way as well.

 

[Timhags]

Very good points above. My question would be about the low # of firefighters on duty at one time? 32 or 35 at one time? With 4 theme parks, 30+ resorts, all those crazy roads and traffic, and at least half millon guests I would have thought they would have more. Size of Manhattan and San Francisco. Just seems low

 

[Darklord77]

"Just like it does with other local fire departments, Orange County Fire Rescue has a mutual aid agreement to help Reedy Creek firefighters, spokeswoman Carrie Proudfit said."

It sounds like Disney's/Reedy Creek's concept of mutual aid is actually a one-way street. Mutual aid agreements are not designed for day-to-day operations. Reedy Creek cannot use the agreement as a way to supplement their own low manpower. Orange County most likely has their own calls to handle and cannot be constantly assisting Reedy Creek. Mutual aid is designed for large or extreme emergencies where one department is suddenly overwhelmed. It's not for Reedy Creek to skimp on staff and then say "oh well Orange County can help us out." If you open new hotels and theme park areas you add employees to those areas correct? Why wouldn't you increase public safety staffing to match those additions. It's common sense to me.

 

[kandb]

My husband is a firefighter. My concern with WDW is if there is more one emergency going on at once. Hopefully, they are putting safety first and have enough personal, police and fire, to respond to any emergency.

 

[KYMickey]

"Just like it does with other local fire departments, Orange County Fire Rescue has a mutual aid agreement to help Reedy Creek firefighters, spokeswoman Carrie Proudfit said."

It sounds like Disney's/Reedy Creek's concept of mutual aid is actually a one-way street. Mutual aid agreements are not designed for day-to-day operations. Reedy Creek cannot use the agreement as a way to supplement their own low manpower. Orange County most likely has their own calls to handle and cannot be constantly assisting Reedy Creek. Mutual aid is designed for large or extreme emergencies where one department is suddenly overwhelmed. It's not for Reedy Creek to skimp on staff and then say "oh well Orange County can help us out." If you open new hotels and theme park areas you add employees to those areas correct? Why wouldn't you increase public safety staffing to match those additions. It's common sense to me.

I'm not quite sure where you came up with the information you posted, it sounds like you are a strong IAFF supporter. Nowhere in any of the information provided was there ever a statement made that RCFD never responded to assist Orange County. In addition, an earlier poster provided factual data that showed that less than 0.06% of Orange County responses were to assist RCFD. You can provide that information I'd like to see it.

 

[OSUZorba]

From the linked article:
"In 2018, the county fire made 55 mutual aid calls with Reedy Creek with another 20 calls that were jointly responded to because they came near both county and Disney jurisdiction. The Reedy Creek help was a fraction of the 135,000 calls dispatched, according to the department."

Doing the math, less than 0.06% of all calls involved Orange County Fire Rescue in 2018.

I have no clue what the "normal" percentage is in other parts of the country. But, I'd say that less than 1% essentially means Reedy Creek Fire and Rescue is a self-sufficient agency.

Seems like the best course of action would be to track that percentage as new facilities are opened. If it jumps up, that means more personnel are needed.

Similarly, if some of the things cdoc29 mentions (especially something like forced overtime due to lack of personnel), that's a clear indication that more personnel are needed.

As someone who thrives on data when making important decisions, this statement perfectly sums up my opinion on this subject:

To me that means, that reads as 0.06% of Orange County's calls go to RCID. Not that only 0.06% of RCID need assistance. My guess is Orange County gets far more calls than RCID.

I personally have no idea what is right in this regard, but I am pretty sure there are standards for staffing and response time and RCID should be meeting or beating those standards. Disney itself also shouldn't have much input into it (of course I know that Disney stacks the RCID board, so of course they are going to have a pretty large influence).

 

[writerguyfl]

To me that means, that reads as 0.06% of Orange County's calls go to RCID. Not that only 0.06% of RCID need assistance. My guess is Orange County gets far more calls than RCID.

I suppose you could quibble with the way I calculated the percentage. But, what's an absolute fact is that Orange County Fire Rescue only assisted a total of 75 times. And if the article is correct, only 55 of those times were actual assistance calls instead of ones based on geography.

I'll repeat the statement that I don't know what constitutes "normal" when it comes to mutual aid agreements. But, 55 instances in a year seems like a low number considering the size and scope of Reedy Creek.

To me, it sounds like everything is being covered. If the union guy wants to convince outsiders (essentially to pressure Disney to get Reedy Creek to hire more people), he needs to do what cdoc29 recommends. Present his argument using data and not just personal opinions.

 

[Darklord77]

I'm not quite sure where you came up with the information you posted, it sounds like you are a strong IAFF supporter. Nowhere in any of the information provided was there ever a statement made that RCFD never responded to assist Orange County. In addition, an earlier poster provided factual data that showed that less than 0.06% of Orange County responses were to assist RCFD. You can provide that information I'd like to see it.

I have a vast amount of experience in service delivery strategy between local governments (local to county). I can tell you that mutual aid agreements almost always favor the smaller governments. Another problem is that the smaller governments (usually the small cities) look at the mutual aid concept as free services that they don't have to pay for and they often abuse it. For a Disney spokesperson to actually give a quote referencing mutual aid as an example of how guests are protected tells me they are definitely abusing it or relying on it too much.

I am not a firefighter and I do not personally know any firefighters outside of my job. I am also not a strong supporter of unions. However, I do look at things from a common sense standpoint. If you add more guest rooms, more theme park area, and more rides then you need to add more personnel to service those areas. When population rises, public safety staff should rise equally. That's very slow to happen in government. I'm sure Disney is adding theme park staff for the gondolas, GE, Riviera, CS tower? I'm assuming they are adding security personnel. Why wouldn't they add firefighters? The national average is about 170 firefighters per 100,000 residents. Reedy Creek has 138. Just doing a quick check of the Reedy Creek website says 40,000+ hotel rooms on property. Say 3/4 of the rooms are occupied with an average of 3 people per room. Then count in the number of employees on duty at any given moment along with the guests who are visiting from off-site. I think even a very conservative estimate gets you to 100,000. Reedy Creek FD asked for 40 new positions in the 2019 budget. So the 40 would put them at 178. That sounds to be in the ballpark of the national average. They got 0 firefighter positions approved.

 

[OKW Lover]

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/bus...0190517-wuin256jerdohkngcufsdsltnu-story.html

Thoughts?

My thought is that anytime a story like this is published its simply to seek leverage for one of the parties in negotiations. As such I take them with a huge grain of salt.

 

[Jack_Sparrow_NJ]

Obviously, this story is an attempt by the union to use fear / public safety as a reason to increase number of members to the department. Additional pieces of equipment, especially if they are only used in specific situations, does not necessarily require additional staffing. If the union wants to argue that an increase in the number of available rooms, attractions and visitors requires additional staffing then they should publish a breakdown of the number and type of calls responded to during specific (monthly) periods of time.

 

[Wraith1876]

A few additional things to consider I gathered from the internet. 97% of Reedy Creek Fire Department calls are medical and the national average is 85%. Average starting salary at RCFD is $67k and the national average is $45k. Maximum shift length including overtime in one day at RCFD is 16 hours while the national average is 18 hours. RCFD has 138 firefighters and a minimum of 32 on duty at all times. If you visit the RCFD Facebook page you can see pictures of their new state of the art equipment.