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I'm feeling so sad ...

Really? If I "called" you insane, what did you "call" the PP with your "assume" comment?
Sincerely sorry if I inferred wrongly. It seemed as though you were saying I was crazy for going back to a park we hated. The problem is we didn't hate the park, as I explained above. We had previously enjoyed it, but didn't realize until we were in the thick of it, that there weren't many experiences we cared to repeat. We'd rather be somewhere else doing something else.

There are some good experiences at DHS, and I leave room for the fact that others really like the park. We just don't find much to do there. It's frustrating when I express this, and someone jumps to the conclusion that I didn't do enough research, didn't try hard enough, or were silly enough to return to a park we hate. Maybe none of those things is true. Maybe we just don't find much to like about the park.
 
Honestly, when I read threads like this it's really no surprise. A lot of your serious Disney vets were able to take great advantage of the post 9/11 recession. Disney was desperate so they offered a lot of perks and you were lucky enough to be able to take them. Now, Disney doesn't have to do so much to get people into the parks and I'm sure if you went frequently in the decade or so following 9/11 you are really disappointed in the pricing and crowds and lack of magic. Who wouldn't be?

This is us exactly. We had AP's in 2001, 2005, 2007, and 2011. The first three AP years were very memorable and we went often. By 2011 we found that the crowds and prices had increased while the quality and service declined. That, in addition to the implementation of fp+ and the fact that there really wasn't anything new since our last visit besides 7DMT, caused us to reach the decision that Disney was no longer the place for us. It's okay if it still is for others, but to me it's just not the same anymore.
 


If they continue to implement things that aren't friendly to the people spending thousands of dollars on their vacations and people stop coming they will be forced to make new changes or roll the old ones back.

Thus far, obviously plenty of people don't think that what they're implementing are things that are unfriendly to people spending thousands of dollars. They are generating higher revenues per visitor and having record numbers of visitors. You can argue, if you like, that you believe that this increase is temporary and that eventually people will stop coming and paying, but that's not what the Disney corporation is experiencing. They will certainly make more changes - Disney is always making changes and tweaking things - but don't expect them to roll back anything they've already done or that you will necessarily like the new changes.

I think you having little kids is one of the big reasons you like FP+. DH and I hated it. For our first trip we probably would have loved it but after we have gone a few times we wanted to be more flexible and do what we want to that day. old FP allowed that better.

We love FP+ and don't have children. I don't actually see the connection between the two. And I never found that FP- allowed more flexibility; to me it added more uncertainty.
 
As far as cost goes, we stay where we can afford that year, and we feel it's a good deal. We're looking at 4 days in August in Washington DC to see the free Smithsonian museums. Our room will be approx. $250 a night, plus $28 for parking plus tax, so at least $300 a night. Food costs are around $200 a day, DC restaurants are expensive. So for 5 days, 4 nights in DC, we'll be spending almost $2,000. Not sure if there's enough value for us to do that. But a week in Disney for $3,000 - far worth it to us!
If you don't mind me saying so, your idea of a DC trip is a great one, but your timing stinks. August in DC is usually pretty unpleasant. I believe you'll find the Smithsonian museums very engaging -- 5 days will go by quickly and you may feel rushed.
 
Thus far, obviously plenty of people don't think that what they're implementing are things that are unfriendly to people spending thousands of dollars. They are generating higher revenues per visitor and having record numbers of visitors. You can argue, if you like, that you believe that this increase is temporary and that eventually people will stop coming and paying, but that's not what the Disney corporation is experiencing. They will certainly make more changes - Disney is always making changes and tweaking things - but don't expect them to roll back anything they've already done or that you will necessarily like the new changes.



We love FP+ and don't have children. I don't actually see the connection between the two. And I never found that FP- allowed more flexibility; to me it added more uncertainty.
Disney's business decisions are made to benefit the business. You can bet your bippy if the find that implementing X policy starts to reduce shareholder returns and business profit, they're going to make changes. It's absurd to think they won't. That's business 101. You can't alienate your customer base. You need them, but change is slow and if you're expecting these changes to happen quickly, you're mistaken.
 


Disney's business decisions are made to benefit the business. You can bet your bippy if the find that implementing X policy starts to reduce shareholder returns and business profit, they're going to make changes. It's absurd to think they won't. That's business 101. You can't alienate your customer base. You need them, but change is slow and if you're expecting these changes to happen quickly, you're mistaken.
Exactly. There is no way for anyone here to know what the future holds for Disney. We can have faith in their decisions or not but it'll take a lot of time before anyone really knows.
 
I understand how the OP is feeling sad about Disney World, because I have been feeling that way more and more. Each time I read about a new way for Disney to make money at something I consider to be to the detriment of the experience, it makes me a little sadder. OK, I know Disney is a business, they are in it for the money, they can do what they want, yadda yadda yadda. Here's the deal, though. I have been to WDW 26? 27? times since March of 1999. When we started going to WDW, I was constantly amazed by how welcomed I felt there. It seemed like the company was glad to have us there, and wanted us to enjoy our vacation to the max. I felt like we were treasured guests, and even though I knew we were paying for this experience, there was value in going to WDW and it was worth it; I didn't mind shelling out the money because the experience was so unique and welcoming. This went on for about 10 years, and my family kept returning to WDW. Then, something changed. The little things that made you feel special and made WDW such a unique experience started falling by the wayside. Some of the little things were little, like no more park-specific napkins or buffet menus, but some of the losses felt more significant, like losing pre-show entertainment. Sure, you had to be at Fantasmic! an hour before show time, but you knew that there'd be a magician or juggling act or something to fill the time. Who else does a pre-show beside Disney? Then there was the issue of non-expiring tickets. Buy as many days as you like, and you could use them FOREVER until all the admission days were gone. Who else does that besides Disney? Now, I cannot even buy a non-expiry option as an additional charge to my tickets. It used to be that when you checked into a Disney hotel, whatever price, special, deal, etc. was in effect on your check-in day was good for your entire length-of-stay (kind-of like how if you check in on the last day of a free-dining window, you get free dining the whole time you are there). No increase in price for weekend nights, no increase in price if you went from value season to a more expensive season, etc. In the restaurants, you could get kids' meals, but you could also get half-portions, for half-price plus $1. It was a wonderful way for kids to experience new cuisines, or for the diner with a smaller appetite. That's gone, too. It always felt like Disney might be saying, "Sure, it's expensive to vacation at WDW, but we want you to get the MOST for your money and have the best experience EVER. We want you to be our guest." Now-a-days, it feels like Disney will nickel and dime you at every possible opportunity.

People laugh now and say, "It was only a napkin, how ridiculous that a napkin 'made' your trip," but it was the little things that Disney seemed to take such pride in offering that disappeared, little by little, until I was feeling less and less like a treasured guest and more and more like a "cha-ching" to the bottom line with each subsequent trip. I think that every time Disney changes a policy or process that makes it more favorable to them, a little part of the magic dies. Yes, they are a business and their goal is to make money, but it seems they USED to take pride in going over the top to make you feel like the most valued guest ever. Now? Cha-ching.
 
Disney's business decisions are made to benefit the business. You can bet your bippy if the find that implementing X policy starts to reduce shareholder returns and business profit, they're going to make changes. It's absurd to think they won't. That's business 101. You can't alienate your customer base. You need them, but change is slow and if you're expecting these changes to happen quickly, you're mistaken.

It's being assumed that most guests do not like My Magic and FP+ and it will cause a drop in attendance and receipts as vacationers decide to spend their money elsewhere. That has yet to happen. If it happens, who knows what they'll do (but it's almost certain they won't bring back FP- in the same form where it previously existed).
 
I understand how the OP is feeling sad about Disney World, because I have been feeling that way more and more. Each time I read about a new way for Disney to make money at something I consider to be to the detriment of the experience, it makes me a little sadder. OK, I know Disney is a business, they are in it for the money, they can do what they want, yadda yadda yadda. Here's the deal, though. I have been to WDW 26? 27? times since March of 1999. When we started going to WDW, I was constantly amazed by how welcomed I felt there. It seemed like the company was glad to have us there, and wanted us to enjoy our vacation to the max. I felt like we were treasured guests, and even though I knew we were paying for this experience, there was value in going to WDW and it was worth it; I didn't mind shelling out the money because the experience was so unique and welcoming. This went on for about 10 years, and my family kept returning to WDW. Then, something changed. The little things that made you feel special and made WDW such a unique experience started falling by the wayside. Some of the little things were little, like no more park-specific napkins or buffet menus, but some of the losses felt more significant, like losing pre-show entertainment. Sure, you had to be at Fantasmic! an hour before show time, but you knew that there'd be a magician or juggling act or something to fill the time. Who else does a pre-show beside Disney? Then there was the issue of non-expiring tickets. Buy as many days as you like, and you could use them FOREVER until all the admission days were gone. Who else does that besides Disney? Now, I cannot even buy a non-expiry option as an additional charge to my tickets. It used to be that when you checked into a Disney hotel, whatever price, special, deal, etc. was in effect on your check-in day was good for your entire length-of-stay (kind-of like how if you check in on the last day of a free-dining window, you get free dining the whole time you are there). No increase in price for weekend nights, no increase in price if you went from value season to a more expensive season, etc. In the restaurants, you could get kids' meals, but you could also get half-portions, for half-price plus $1. It was a wonderful way for kids to experience new cuisines, or for the diner with a smaller appetite. That's gone, too. It always felt like Disney might be saying, "Sure, it's expensive to vacation at WDW, but we want you to get the MOST for your money and have the best experience EVER. We want you to be our guest." Now-a-days, it feels like Disney will nickel and dime you at every possible opportunity.

People laugh now and say, "It was only a napkin, how ridiculous that a napkin 'made' your trip," but it was the little things that Disney seemed to take such pride in offering that disappeared, little by little, until I was feeling less and less like a treasured guest and more and more like a "cha-ching" to the bottom line with each subsequent trip. I think that every time Disney changes a policy or process that makes it more favorable to them, a little part of the magic dies. Yes, they are a business and their goal is to make money, but it seems they USED to take pride in going over the top to make you feel like the most valued guest ever. Now? Cha-ching.

leebee this is so eloquently stated, and I very much agree with you. So much has fallen away in recent years. The thread about things no longer seen in WDW serves as a reminder. One thing we really enjoyed that they took away was the parade at DHS. But you're right about all the little things adding up.
 
leebee this is so eloquently stated, and I very much agree with you. So much has fallen away in recent years. The thread about things no longer seen in WDW serves as a reminder. One thing we really enjoyed that they took away was the parade at DHS. But you're right about all the little things adding up.


I think some of it was brought on by the guests themselves. It still fairly common to see posts from guests who want to book a night and then not show up until the next day or the day after, in order to get a discount. Heck, there is a whole thread by people booking rooms they have no intention of using, except for the perks! People find all sorts of ways to take advantage of Disney, to do things that they can get away with doing, not what they should be doing. I can't be shocked when Disney puts rules in place to stop some of that.

The napkins, I agree they were cute. But I bet many of them were being taken home as souvenirs, and not used in the parks. I doubt Disney meant to be supplying people with napkins for their homes. A few extra napkins a time when you have millions of guests each year, that is bound to add up!
 
I really do not understand why people get so bent out of shape over FP+ and say that it ruins their vacation? Outside of limiting or changing how you pick attractions, it should not change the experience. The rides are still the rides and the service is still the same. Maybe people are just picky or don't like change. Or maybe you liked to go and hoard fast passes at the beginning of the day and now you can't and have to share. Can someone explain how FP+ has made them actually not enjoy their vacation over FP-???

However, people need to realize that change needs to happen. Now for people that say that there have been huge issues with the system, what did you think was going to happen? You tell me one huge technological change that a company has made that hasn't had issues or setbacks. Everytime microsoft comes out with a new windows there are months and months of issues. Apple released their new software a while back that killed everyones phones and tablets. What makes people think that a new system that tracks everything you do at disney and gives you the ability to change on the fly via your phone would not have issues and growing pains?
 
Disney is more crowded now than it was in the past, and i think everyone laments that for their particular trip. But the only alternative -- limiting visitors or raising prices even higher -- would create just as much bad feeling

They could also build more rides (which I understand they are doing I'm just not sure about how much net gain there will be from say Pandora in rides/attractions). New Fantasyland is gorgeous but it has increased the capacity in the park without really increasing the number of bums on seats on rides/shows. While a 5th gate is a fun idea (after the rumored and confirmed changes at the current parks) the crowds are really only a problem at MK and i'm not so sure Pandora is going to draw the crowds away from MK enough to make a huge difference there.
I would be really interested to know why Disney takes so long to build new attractions when it seems that US can turn them out so much quicker.
That being said undoubtedly building new attractions also attracts more people.
 
I really do not understand why people get so bent out of shape over FP+ and say that it ruins their vacation? Outside of limiting or changing how you pick attractions, it should not change the experience.




Some people expect a certain return on what they pay for admission.

I know there are some who visit Disney for the atmosphere, but a lot of people go for the attractions.
 
...New Fantasyland is gorgeous but it has increased the capacity in the park without really increasing the number of bums on seats on rides/shows. ...
They added a second Dumbo, the Little Mermaid ride and Seven Dwarves Mine Train - lots of additional "bums on seats". Not my choice of new rides, but lots of added capacity.
 
They added a second Dumbo, the Little Mermaid ride and Seven Dwarves Mine Train - lots of additional "bums on seats". Not my choice of new rides, but lots of added capacity.


They also removed Snow White's Scary Adventures.
 
I think there are probably several ways to approach dissatisfaction with Disney. You can either languish in what used to be for weeks, months, years and resent the new system, stop going, reduce your trips, etc. Or you can learn to navigate the new world. Or maybe a little bit of both. I prefer the more pro active approach. And if there ever comes a time when Disney just doesn't make sense for me or my family, we will just no longer go. It's that simple.

Based on increased attendance at Disney, I would say that most people are not to that point yet, including me.

However, it is a big world out there with a lot to do and there is no lack of alternatives to Disneyworld vacation for most people.
 
My mother was a very avid WDW visitor having been over 30+ including trips when us kids were young, with my Dad, and several trips with her grandkids over the years. Just the two of us took a mother son WDW one week trip last December, first time for both us with MBs and FP+ in place, as she wanted to see the Christmas shows and decorations, even though as both experienced WDW/DL visitors (I have 15 trips), we never waived in our decision to go knowing well that park planning and experiences had changed. We had a great time and managed the changes just fine. When she returned home she had a phone message from her doctor regarding tests she had on her heart before leaving, in the following months of doctors consults and follow-up she ended up with open heart surgery last month and unfortunately passed away a few days later. Everyone has the right to their own ideas and decisions about whether to go to WDW and if the changes will impact the experience - in my view if you have the ability, chance and plans to visit WDW go right ahead as you never know what lies around the corner in your life.
 

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