Idea to improve DAS

[KPeveler]

Once again, this thread is for ideas to improve the DAS system, not to judge one another.

Please keep the discussion civil and supportive - I really do not want to have to close this thread.

 

[curemyreed]

No, there is no return time with my system. You go straight on the first ride, then wait the length of that line before going on the second. Then you wait the length of the second line before going on the third. This continues on until the end of the day.

Thanks for the explanation! Now I get what you are saying.

 

[kritter47]

I don't think the "go on a ride immediately, then wait the amount of time afterward" would work in the long run because it's much more inviting for abuse when it comes to the headliner-type rides with long waits.

Let's take Hollywood Studios as an example. A family with a DAS arrives from another park in the early afternoon with high wait times. They can easily save two hours of park time by hitting the ride with the longest wait last, then leaving. So they hit ToT (50 minute wait) first, then see a show while waiting for the pass is up. Then they hit RnR (75 minute wait), ride something with a short standby, watch a street scene and eat while waiting for the pass to come up. Then they ride TSMM (120 minute wait) and leave the park. They have "saved" two hours of wait time over a normal guest, and that's a tremendous advantage that's not present with the way the system is set up now. Those types of advantages invite abuse and over-use, which leads to overcrowding of the system like happened with the GAC.

What might be a happy medium is to somehow track the time waiting in accessable lines on the stamp (so you get a stamp for your return time, then a written time of when you arrive and the DAS is scanned and a written time when you get on the ride). If that is longer than 15 minutes, you get a "credit" of time toward the next wait (so if you waited 25 minutes after entering line, you get a 10 minute credit toward the next DAS time you pick up, making what would have been a 45 minute wait a 35 minute one).

That is a lot more work for CMs and may not mesh well if the system ever goes fully automated with the RFID technology (though it could also possibly be easy with check in points at the start of the accessible/alternate entrance line and at the end of it before boarding), but it would be much less open for abuse than the proposed system we're talking about here.

 

[Nixie]

What I keep hearing over and over again is the inconstancy of Disney to implement their own policies. I feel like the GAC abuse was because the CMs at the rides were taking the easy way out and just ushering all through the FP lines. Disney wanted to put a stop to that by making the DAS, but the DAS now only works for a very select few needs. Everyone else has been told to take it up with the CMs standing outside the rides, which by the reports, are being inconsistent as ever on how different needs are being handled. To me, it sounds more of a Disney training issue than anything else. Why can't the new system for helping people who can't wait in the traditional lines be used for those that need it, but the GAC stamps for things like front row seating, moving walkways stopped, etc. The people with those needs don't necessarily need the alternative waiting areas, but wouldn't have to reexplain everything to every CM they see. They might need to tell the CM a little bit to help get the right accommodations, but at least their card with it's stamp would be a good starting place (if that makes sense). I think Disney needs to do some more training on what their exact policy is to handle each sort of disability that can be present to them. Of course, it won't be the exact same every single time, but it sounds almost like most CMs are just making it up as they go.

 

[cmwade77]

I disagree with that. Just my opinion. I think the non wheelchair DAS users have a relatively equal wait time. Wheelchairs are a whole different ball game because of the fewer accessible cars. But someone getting a return time of standby minus 10 minutes is going to wait nearly the same time as someone in the standby.

I've seen very few people worried about waiting longer over waiting in general. I think the current system with the offering of a single immediate FP for the first ride to help with that first initial wait would be fine.

Actually, many of us have been complaining about waiting longer at the following attractions:
Pirates of the Caribbean
Splash Mountain (if you can't do stairs)
Space Mountain (DLR)
Peter Pan
it's a small world
Alice in Wonderland (DLR)
Storybook Land Canal Boats (DLR)
California Screamin' (if you can't do stairs)
Indiana Jones (the FP line is long no matter what and if you can't do stairs, it is even longer when returning)
Star Tours (if you can't walk up the very steep ramp)

I am sure that I have missed many of them, but on average these will take a minimum of 20-30 additional minutes when you return (in addition to any FP waits, when applicable), with some up to an hour+ when returning.

All attractions with FP, as there will generally be a 10-15 minute wait for FP return lines, which means there is a 10-15 minute additional wait upon returning.

 

[richflour]

I tried to be clear before, but I guess I need to explain further.

You do not get to decide who is "disabled enough" to get a DAS.

You do not get to decide who is "sick enough"or "bad enough" or any "enough" to qualify as a person with a disability.

You do not get to decide who is "worse" than someone else.

That is not a game we ever play on this forum. Not only can you not tell everything about another person based on a few posts online, but you do not live in their bodies and lives.

You are not the only parent with a child with a disability on this forum. You are not the only person who has dealt with a disability on this forum.

There are many different forms and experiences of disability, and trying to create a scale, apparently based on the needs of your child, will not help anyone. I have a disability, I require a DAS card, and I ride Space Mountain every chance I get. I love Space Mountain, Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, Splash... and I love Winnie the Pooh and Monster's Inc.

My disability means I use a wheelchair, but that does not meet all my needs. I also have, for example, severe problems with heat, which makes living in SoCal all the more fun. This is one reason I use the DAS - many of the queues in DL/DCA would result in my passing out and spiking a fever. That does not mean I do not enjoy the ride - it means the way the queue is designed is dangerous for my disability.

My disability is different than your son's. I am largely independent and can go on some thrill rides sometimes. That does not mean I am "less" disabled than your son, or anyone else.

I do not discount your experiences at all, and you are right that Disney owes you nothing. But Disney is required to provide appropriate accommodations for disabilities as stated in the ADA - that is a right, not being owed.

In the future, please keep this in mind when posting on this forum. This is supposed to be a supportive environment, not a place where people feel judged. Please ask questions and provide any answers you may have from your own experiences, but please refrain from judging others, their needs, and their abilities.

This goes for anyone wishing to post in the disABILITIES forum.

Tha ada does not require disney or any other company to provide quicker line service .
I am in know way judging someones disabilities or to saying one is greater than the other .but to keep harping on how some cant enjoy themself if they have to wait is absurd.
Disney made this change because of massive abuse of the gac.
It is impossible for disney to accommodate every disability.
Should I complain because disney has not made a ride like space mountain acessable to my child, no I will simply enjoy the ones that they have made acessable to him.
Disney still goes over and beyond what the ada requires. For that we will contiune to vacation at disney.
I posted the previous post without thinking I know that you can have disability and still ride space mountain.
It is the sense of entitlement that some of the posters have that makes me upset

 

[WantToGoNow]

Well let me rephrase / you could be handicapped and go on space mountain , but not to the extent you would need a das .

My dd has 4 different heart conditions as well as other problems. She probably shouldn't ride Space Mountain but she does. She is disabled and did have a DAS that we barely used.

 

[richflour]

My dd has 4 different heart conditions as well as other problems. She probably shouldn't ride Space Mountain but she does. She is disabled and did have a DAS that we barely used.

I am glad your dd can ride . If it makes her happy this is all that matters.
I didnt mean to offend .

 

[afnaechiquita]

I realize every child is different. This is just a suggestion of what worked for us. I found out what attraction ds wanted to ride. And one of us got his DAS return time without him even knowing about it, so he didn't know he was waiting.

i thought that the DAS-holder had to be present when getting the return time? if not, that will eliminate the "oh here we are at TOT but we have to come back in an hour and let me try to explain that" issue for people traveling in a 2:1 group (because if it's just you and the DAS-holder, you can't avoid that).

What I keep hearing over and over again is the inconstancy of Disney to implement their own policies. I feel like the GAC abuse was because the CMs at the rides were taking the easy way out and just ushering all through the FP lines. Disney wanted to put a stop to that by making the DAS, but the DAS now only works for a very select few needs. Everyone else has been told to take it up with the CMs standing outside the rides, which by the reports, are being inconsistent as ever on how different needs are being handled. To me, it sounds more of a Disney training issue than anything else. Why can't the new system for helping people who can't wait in the traditional lines be used for those that need it, but the GAC stamps for things like front row seating, moving walkways stopped, etc. The people with those needs don't necessarily need the alternative waiting areas, but wouldn't have to reexplain everything to every CM they see. They might need to tell the CM a little bit to help get the right accommodations, but at least their card with it's stamp would be a good starting place (if that makes sense). I think Disney needs to do some more training on what their exact policy is to handle each sort of disability that can be present to them. Of course, it won't be the exact same every single time, but it sounds almost like most CMs are just making it up as they go.

this is what sounds to be like a big problem reading through this thread. i don't understand why they got rid of the stamps entirely when the stamps were a universal communication tool to tell the CMs what to do. now, if you are not able to adequately communicate to the CM (whether it be an issue with your explanation or the CM's inability to comprehend that there are other problems than "i can't wait in line") the needs that were previously stamped on the card, you're out of luck like the PP at it's tough to be a bug. i definitely think the stamps should be brought back, but as an aid to the current system.

 

[disney david]

i thought that the DAS-holder had to be present when getting the return time? if not, that will eliminate the "oh here we are at TOT but we have to come back in an hour and let me try to explain that" issue for people traveling in a 2:1 group (because if it's just you and the DAS-holder, you can't avoid that).

this is what sounds to be like a big problem reading through this thread. i don't understand why they got rid of the stamps entirely when the stamps were a universal communication tool to tell the CMs what to do. now, if you are not able to adequately communicate to the CM (whether it be an issue with your explanation or the CM's inability to comprehend that there are other problems than "i can't wait in line") the needs that were previously stamped on the card, you're out of luck like the PP at it's tough to be a bug. i definitely think the stamps should be brought back, but as an aid to the current system.

No the das holder dose not need to be present to get the return time they do to ride it. So you could take the das get the return time then when ready you all go on the ride.

 

[lovethattink]

i thought that the DAS-holder had to be present when getting the return time? if not, that will eliminate the "oh here we are at TOT but we have to come back in an hour and let me try to explain that" issue for people traveling in a 2:1 group (because if it's just you and the DAS-holder, you can't avoid that).

Doing it stealth as we did, totally eliminated the tease of here's the ride but you can't go on it. And your right, 2:1 it works fine. The DAS holder only has to be there to ride. Not to get a time.

1:1 it could be tough or impossible.

 

[aaarcher86]

Actually, many of us have been complaining about waiting longer at the following attractions: Pirates of the Caribbean Splash Mountain (if you can't do stairs) Space Mountain (DLR) Peter Pan it's a small world Alice in Wonderland (DLR) Storybook Land Canal Boats (DLR) California Screamin' (if you can't do stairs) Indiana Jones (the FP line is long no matter what and if you can't do stairs, it is even longer when returning) Star Tours (if you can't walk up the very steep ramp) I am sure that I have missed many of them, but on average these will take a minimum of 20-30 additional minutes when you return (in addition to any FP waits, when applicable), with some up to an hour+ when returning. All attractions with FP, as there will generally be a 10-15 minute wait for FP return lines, which means there is a 10-15 minute additional wait upon returning.

Aren't you referring to wheelchair waits though? I've never encountered a regular FP line that long.

While you're system may offer a solution for wheelchairs that's easier, the non wheelchair users don't encounter this with the DAS. If the FP line is 30 minutes long then all the FP returners are experiencing the same wait.

I'm not missing posts here, but I'm going off a great many posts I've seen on other venues which far outnumber the posts here saying the waits are longer.

 

[KPeveler]

Aren't you referring to wheelchair waits though? I've never encountered a regular FP line that long.

While you're system may offer a solution for wheelchairs that's easier, the non wheelchair users don't encounter this with the DAS. If the FP line is 30 minutes long then all the FP returners are experiencing the same wait.

I'm not missing posts here, but I'm going off a great many posts I've seen on other venues which far outnumber the posts here saying the waits are longer.

Even if we consider DCA, where all queues are mainstreamed - yes, all people returning with a FP encounter a 30 minute wait, even those of us with a wheelchair.

The inequality that the PP means is that when we get a DAS return time, it is for the entire stand-by wait. And the DAS is NOT a FP. Yes, people are sent in the FP lines, but that is because that is the easiest way to get the person to the ride (gets too confusing going in most exits if that can even be done).

The DAS is supposed to ensure that all guests wait approximately (and by this Disney means within 10 minutes margin of error) the same time. But if I get a DAS return time for Racers (120 minutes) - that 120 minutes is measured from when a guest enters the queue to when they board the ride. So when I get a DAS return time (for 110 minutes - they give me a little travel time), I have already waited as long as any other guest who entered the ride at the time I did (getting my time = entering the line).

When I return 120 minutes later, I should be getting on the ride within minutes. Instead, I am often faced with a 30+ minute FP queue. Now I am waiting at least 150 minutes, and sometimes even longer because I have a wheelchair and a DAS.

This is where the inequality is happening. And it is happening everywhere. I know the system is only two weeks old, but this happens to me every time I return to a ride, whether I have a DAS card or a wheelchair return time.

With the wheelchair return times, I am given a time that is equal (or sometimes less, this varies by CM) to the stand-by time. Again, I have no problem waiting my turn. I usually sit near the place where I go in with my wheelchair, as I am a manual wheelchair user and I cannot push myself in circles all day. Let's say I want to go on Peter Pan. I am given a wait time of 40 minutes. I may ride an attraction with a shorter queue, like Snow White, but I generally will not leave the area (again, pushing myself).

I then return to Peter Pan 40 minutes later, and there is always a line. The last time I went, there was a line with 5 wheelchairs in it. There were other parties but I counted 5 wheelchairs or ECVs. In Fantasyland, there is generally only 1 wheelchair user allowed on a ride at a time, as is the case with Peter Pan. It is a 4 minute ride, and allowing for time to get on and off, it takes about 6 minutes for each wheelchair party to enter, ride, and leave. That means I come back after 40 minutes and I am in a 30 minute line. Everyone in front of me has a return ticket as well, so we are all waiting. Now instead of me waiting 40 minutes as I should, I am waiting 70.

There is this idea that people who get these return times are doing all kinds of other things during our "wait time" - but this really is not true, especially for wheelchair users. Yes, I may sit in the entrance of a store or someplace like that, but almost no ride is accessible. Transferring takes energy. And I am pushing myself all day.

Even if someone was with me, and I was being pushed by them (I prefer pushing myself - I am an adult, not a child in a stroller), THAT person gets tired too.

I understand the wait times, and I have no problems with the DAS so far.

I DO have problems with the wheelchair return times - there is no end time, and no indication for the CMs how many people will be needing the transfer vehicle or wheelchair vehicle and when they will be returning.

Perhaps there needs to be an end time to the wheelchair return tickets - make them a little more like FPs. This would space out the wheelchair returns, like they did with Racers, and eliminate the hoards of people showing up at key times (after parades, after fireworks, etc). Also CMs would know about how many people needing the wheelchair vehicle will be showing up and when, and they can be spaced out (for instance, if two people in a row need the wheelchair boat at Jungle Cruise, give a return time of 3:00 to one, and 3:05 to the next).

I am not sure that would solve a lot of problems, but something needs to be done, because the queues are crazy right now.

Also, something needs to be done so that those of us in manual chairs are not punished for touring solo.

I am not saying I have the answers, I am just saying that the system became less fair for folks in wheelchairs.

 

[aaarcher86]

I'd agree that wheelchair lines need to be treated differently because of the extended waits and extra time in waiting for an accessible vehicle. I'm not familiar with Disneyland so my experiences are based off of WDW FP lines.

 

[BroganMc]

Jungle Cruise at WDW is another example. This was one of the attractions we got a return time for my son (he has several needs other than using the w/c). Waited the amount of time written on the card. Kept an eye on the family who entered the FP line while we were sent to the accessible boarding. That family got on the 2nd boat. We were told we just missed the boat, so it would be another 10 minute wait. Had there been more w/c ahead of us, it would have added another 10 minutes per chair. So we were lucky.

That was the first day of DAS. The FP lines were very empty that day.

There are many similar stories. Pretty much every attraction where there is a special ride vehicle involved will incur longer waits than what one finds using FP or Standby.

One of the reasons CMs instructed me to ask for a GAC years ago was because they recognized I'd be waiting much longer than everyone else without one.

I've been hoping Disney would take the opportunity with DAS to recognize and address this issue so wheelies would not be so disadvantaged. Giving them access to the FP line under GAC was at best a band-aid solution. It meant wheelies waited less than Standby (when waits were over 30 mins) but more than FP. DAS takes that solution away and leaves wheelies without any compensation.

This idea would at least allow a wheelie a chance to catch up via the first ride of the day. They'll probably see diminishing returns with subsequent rides but it'll average out to something equal to non-wheelie guests. One reason I never felt guilty using a GAC is because I knew what time I saved there would be spent on the wheelie line.

 

[AOSIG]

The WDW Cognitive Disabilities Guide (CDG) recommends using FP and FP+ to "plan my day". The assertion is that these, with the DASC, will allow me to be in the right place, at the right time, for my kids (2 w/ASD) to ride those must-do rides.

One problem I foresee (going to WDW in 2 weeks for the first time since the change) is the hard stop times on the FP and FP+. The DASC is open-ended, we just can't get another until they use or void the first. But if I have reserved a FP+ for Small World, one hour for a solo mom with 2 on the spectrum is very hard to plan. One child or the other may have a meltdown requiring cool down (that can take from 30 minutes to 2 hours, depending how bad the situation), I may need to allow my kids vestibular (spinning) time or other visual stimming, and I dread the possibility of a toileting emergency for my 11 yo DS (which occasionally requires a trip to the locker, wherein fresh clothing is kept, not like a quick onesie change after a diaper blowout-trust me!). With my child's GAC, they rode when they got to an attraction, and nothing was on a timetable. (Needless to say, we almost NEVER planned a TS meal, as these were waaaay too easy to overshoot).

Is there an accommodation which will allow me, with my FP/FP+ planning, to show entrance CMs the kids' FP return time, explain the reason we were late (due to a disability) to override the hard return time? They still wait, like non DAS-users, for return times (or reserved times FP+) to begin, so it's not a FOTL accommodation, but if I'm 30 minutes past the hard stop for their return (which means they've really waited 90 minutes MORE than standby guests who arrived at the attraction at the same time as us) due to my child's disability, I won't be penalized and have to start their wait time all over again, or worse-leave the attraction altogether without letting them experience it, because we have another reserved attraction, thereby causing another meltdown, requiring more cooldown, which slips us past that reservation, too, which causes another meltdown...oh, you get my point!).

I have had all the same except only one child is autistic. I would try to use FP instead of GAC/old system... Problem was that the computer knew you had missed your ride time so my guess is it would take a supervisor to go in manually and override the system. Happened once to me on Soarin we had a situation...she said just this time. That happened a few months ago. So my guess is they might let you ride but no more FP for 2 hours.

 

[KPeveler]

There are many similar stories. Pretty much every attraction where there is a special ride vehicle involved will incur longer waits than what one finds using FP or Standby.

One of the reasons CMs instructed me to ask for a GAC years ago was because they recognized I'd be waiting much longer than everyone else without one.

I've been hoping Disney would take the opportunity with DAS to recognize and address this issue so wheelies would not be so disadvantaged. Giving them access to the FP line under GAC was at best a band-aid solution. It meant wheelies waited less than Standby (when waits were over 30 mins) but more than FP. DAS takes that solution away and leaves wheelies without any compensation.

This idea would at least allow a wheelie a chance to catch up via the first ride of the day. They'll probably see diminishing returns with subsequent rides but it'll average out to something equal to non-wheelie guests. One reason I never felt guilty using a GAC is because I knew what time I saved there would be spent on the wheelie line.

Pretty much.... and it is even worse in DL where the wheelchair lines are already separate.

The DAS is trying to be one-size-fits-all and that is not really how people work. Most of it is fine, except I have a wheelchair too, and there is no accommodation made for that.

For example, when I returned to Haunted Mansion with a DAS return time, it was just after dark, but not after any of the fireworks or Fantasmic shows. If I had shown my DAS and been able to walk, I would have gone right in. As it was, there were already 3 people with wheelchairs in the building (the limit), and 4 waiting by the ghost-horse hearse, which is used as a wheelchair holding area. My party and I had to wait (with others) outside the entrance to the attraction, but there was nowhere to wait. What used to be the wheelchair overflow queue was now the wheelchair return time station and stroller parking.

I had a DAS, so technically anyone of the 4 in front of me with a wheelchair return ticket should have had to wait for me, but there is no real way of doing this in a packed queue in the dark! (And I had already been part of a CM being yelled at by guests when DAS card holders went in front of others). Even if they wanted to, there was no way of getting the DAS people separated from the others.

It took me 30 minutes just to get into the building. And this with after a 90 minute DAS wait.

Something similar happened at Jungle Cruise and Small World - I happened to return at a time when someone else who needed the wheelchair boat did, so I had to wait longer (and this was after making it through the wheelchair returnee line).

I also have no idea how they plan on making the DAS system work in WDW long term without kiosks or the ability to get ride times without going all the way to the ride. Again, the system actively discriminates again wheelies, especially solo manual wheelchair users, or people who do not have the battery power to go in circles all day.

 

[cmwade77]

This is exactly what the system that I have suggested would fix. Yes at HM, you would have still had the 30 minute wait at the attraction. But since the standby line was 60 minutes, you would only have another 30 minutes to wait after going on the ride, since you already waited 30 minutes before going on the ride.

This your wait time would be exactly equal to everyone else, give or take 10 minutes or so, depending on how accurate the posted wait time is.

This system would also eliminate the need to go in circles.

If anyone thinks this system makes sense, I would strongly recommend writting Disney and letting them know via the email on the official link, which is posted on either of the official threads. I am on my phone right now, so I can't find the link and paste it in here very readily.

 

[ttintagel]

Why can't the new system for helping people who can't wait in the traditional lines be used for those that need it, but the GAC stamps for things like front row seating, moving walkways stopped, etc. The people with those needs don't necessarily need the alternative waiting areas, but wouldn't have to reexplain everything to every CM they see. They might need to tell the CM a little bit to help get the right accommodations, but at least their card with it's stamp would be a good starting place

this is what sounds to be like a big problem reading through this thread. i don't understand why they got rid of the stamps entirely when the stamps were a universal communication tool to tell the CMs what to do. now, if you are not able to adequately communicate to the CM (whether it be an issue with your explanation or the CM's inability to comprehend that there are other problems than "i can't wait in line") the needs that were previously stamped on the card, you're out of luck like the PP at it's tough to be a bug. i definitely think the stamps should be brought back, but as an aid to the current system

Yeah, the more I read, the more it seems like the new system is set up to address one issue and one issue alone, and anybody with any other need is just on their own to fend for themselves, maybe with whatever help any CM they happen to be able to flag down feels the whim to give them.

 

[cmwade77]

Tha ada does not require disney or any other company to provide quicker line service .
I am in know way judging someones disabilities or to saying one is greater than the other .but to keep harping on how some cant enjoy themself if they have to wait is absurd.
Disney made this change because of massive abuse of the gac.
It is impossible for disney to accommodate every disability.
Should I complain because disney has not made a ride like space mountain acessable to my child, no I will simply enjoy the ones that they have made acessable to him.
Disney still goes over and beyond what the ada requires. For that we will contiune to vacation at disney.
I posted the previous post without thinking I know that you can have disability and still ride space mountain.
It is the sense of entitlement that some of the posters have that makes me upset

Actually, even according to Disney, current ADA guidelines state that the waits must be as close to equal as possible.

My comment comes not from having to wait, but from having to wait longer and the other inequalities in the system.