I thought I'd seen it all---

[piccolopat]

My aunt relayed a story about how some young kids were running/jumping/generally misbehaving near the edge of a cliff area at the Grand Canyon. The parents were ignoring the kids, so my aunt told them to stop. I certainly think that others do have the right, and even the duty, to take others' kids to task when the parents aren't parenting, especially when safety is involved (whether kids are running toward a cliff or walking on table tops at Disney World).

One young child, I think around age 4, fell off a cliff in the Grand Canyon and died a few weeks after we were there years ago. Apparently the child climbed around one of the metal fences when the adults weren't paying attention and the edge gave way. How sad.

 

[piccolopat]

All it took was one look from my mother and I'd quickly change my tune.

Parents who don't discipline their children drive me nuts. It's all part of this entitlement that people seem to believe they deserve. They paid all this money for a WDW vacation so they can do whatever they want.

Unfortunately for many of these parents, the entitlement mentality extends into their everyday lives as well. There are so many people out there that think rules just don't apply to them or their children that it is mind boggling.

 

[piccolopat]

all due respect....If you are "not a fan of children at all", why in the world would you choose to travel to Walt Disney World.....Its like not being a fan of Oceans, and taking a cruise

I'm sure that most people that aren't fans of children have no real issues with well behaved children so we are really talking about children who are rude, obnoxious and otherwise miserable to be around. This thread offers plenty of examples. Why do you think that people should miss out on everything that Disney has to offer just because some parents don't know how to be parents and allow their kids to ruin the experiences of others around them? How many of us, with and without kids, would stand up and applaud if Disney started to ask these parents to control their kids or leave? To be clear, this is the parents' fault until the kids are old enough to know better.

 

[piccolopat]

He is sitting in his seat at least, but yes, sorry- he is very loud.

You might want to bring you child to a hearing specialist. When my niece was that age she also talked very loud. I was sure she had a hearing problem but her mother kept saying that the pediatrician said she was fine. About a year later she went to a specialist and they found that she was almost deaf due to fluid in her ears and needed to have two drains put in. Her speaking voice got softer after the surgery, but she was still louder than most kids because she spent so much time not hearing well.

 

[ElsasFan]

This doesn't have to do with restaurants but with raising kids the way you want them to behave. My husband, son and I were walking on the Mall in Washington DC (we lived nearby and it was a frequent weekend trip). My son was about six or so and he saw an almost teenage boy finish something he was eating and his parents told him to drop the wrapper on the ground so someone else could pick it up. My son had walked the beach in Biloxi, MS with his father and they picked up a lot of trash (before casinos were there). So, my son knew not to litter. Without a word to or from us, my son went over, picked up the wrapper and touched the boy on the arm and said "excuse me, but I think you dropped this - the trash can is over there". Then he came back to us and the look on the parents' faces and that boy's face was priceless. And the boy put the wrapper into the trashcan.

So yes, keeping your mouth closed is fine but making a small statement is beyond great.

The first part of your story reminded me of something that happened to us somewhere at WDW last week. My husband overheard some parents start griping at their son (not sure of his age) because he was holding the door for people. He was being polite and got chewed out! Poor kid.

 

[KnittingMom]

Parents should also be parents when their kids forget all the manners they've been taught, because it does happen. I know some kids who are angels at home and little demons in public. I've gone out to lunch or for coffee with friends, their kids start misbehaving, and they just sit there talking to me about how well behaved they are at home. I know, I've seen them at home. But I also see those kids getting disciplined at home when they are out of line, and in public mom or dad just sit there giving out useless warnings and making empty threats. Kids are smart and will figure out what they can get away with and when. Kind of like when you take them to Grandma's house and they just know they are going to get away with certain stuff that would never fly at home.

We teachers really suffer from those kids who are only behaved at home -- and boy I do not understand why a parent would be happy enough with at-home good manners to accept public rudeness. If I see an out of control child running towards me, I stop moving and hold my ground and let him bounce off and fall. Not my fault, as I was merely standing still.

One of the rudest things I ever said to another Disney guest was at the beach at the Poly. A woman was letting her child -- at sunset -- swim in the Seven Seas Lagoon. I said to her, "Do you really not know that there are alligators in that water, or were you hoping your child would be killed and eaten?" She obviously was hoping for an alligator attack, as she left the boy in the lake. My son said (to me, not to that woman), "Is that Mother's Nature's way of weeding out the 'too stupid to survive'"?

 

[KnittingMom]

I had to stop being friends with a good friend from college over the behavior of her children. Mine were a little older, but I could not tolerate her lack of discipline because it made a bad impression on my kids and drove me nuts. I tried many different ways to talk to her about it to no avail. She claimed her little monsters were just "free thinking" and "curious about their world". She didn't want to "crush their spirits". I told her children need limits, boundaries and rules for their own good and that by allowing them to run wild she was not doing them any favors in the long run.

After many embarrassing public scenes involving her children, I told her I couldn't stand being around her badly behaved free range children.

Finally we had both had enough, she told me to worry about raising my own children and I told her that I no longer wanted a friendship with someone whose children behaved so badly, both in my home and the world at large. That was about 10 years ago. I've heard through mutual acquaintances that she is homeschooling her little monsters because the school system just isn't set up for her "free spirited, seeking children".

The sad part is that they were such sweet babies and had so much potential. The sadder part is that I still miss the friendship we shared before we became parents.

That is a hard story, but you have to keep your children obeying your rules, and they cannot if you are forced to create radically different rules for visitors. If safety is involved (we have a backyard pool), all the children in my house have to obey my rules.

 

[KnittingMom]

My now 12 year old daughter still is amazed by the behavior of a child on an airplane two years ago. The little girl, probably 5 or 6 years old, was sitting behind my daughter, kicking the seat and being generally annoying. The final straw was when she apparently squirmed so much she actually ended up under our feet! I had to tell the dad that his child was actually underfoot before he noticed.

I had a seat kicker behind me on the plane, and I forced his Dad to take my seat and I sat next to the kid. You had better believe that child did not say a word or move a muscle -- he was petrified of me. Of course, I have over 35 years of teaching experience, and I used to teach in a district that literally allowed children to be hit with wooden paddles (of course, I never hit a child!).

 

[KnittingMom]

These children will be a joy in a middle school classroom!

 

[KnittingMom]

People are free to parent the way they choose in the US. If someone chooses not to be an authoritarian, that is their perogative. If they choose gentle attatchment parenting that is also their prerogative. My parents didn't have to scare me as a child to inspire me to do what is right. And I was also a good kid because of how I was raised.

I agree that people can parent as they choose, but your post implies that there are two parenting styles: "authoritarian," and "gentle attachment" parenting. Of course there are more than two styles, and "obedient" children are not somehow "ungentle" or "unattached." Allowing a child to engage in a dangerous activity -- such as running into servers carrying heavy trays of hot food -- is not an example of "gentle attachment" parenting. Listening to your child talk, reading her a story, playing a game with her -- those are gentle attachment activities. These folks are talking about children who are either doing something dangerous, or who are literally screaming for attention from parents who have tuned them out.

 

[OasterP]

The problem with threads like this is that the example it starts with is obviously an extreme one and would be categorized under ridiculous public behavior....however as the thread progresses, i tend to notice alot of 'eye of the beholder" examples. I have seen many issues that have occurred at Disney that I would not blink an eye at, that others have been quick to pass judgement on. As a veteran of many Disney trips, i would say 99% of the time i have great sympathy for parents who have children melting down, and it is easy for us to say, "hey you should just leave", or "discipline your kids".....however I tend not to let it effect me to much as I understand that there are probably a bunch of issues I probably have no idea that are at play

I agree with this. I do think most of the behavior is extreme, but you are right- soon it will turn to a judgement thread. Particularly from people who don't have kids. Sometimes kids are a holes - I saw it with my son this week a lot, and he's normally not horrible. Part of the problem too is if you discipline you are a "bad" parent, if you don't - "bad" parent. I smacked my son in the mouth at Epcot on Sunday and got a dirty look from someone. But he chose to break out "I hate you" because he didn't get his own way. From a five year old who has NEVER said that, and doesn't hear it from our house.

My eight month old is learning to eat by herself, so she made a mess with her food. I picked it up off the floor and wiped the table, but I'm sure before I did someone was judging me.

I have to admit - I went to Epcot by MYSELF one evening while my husband had the kids at the hotel, and I did hear a bunch of kids having temper tantrum meltdowns....no my circus.

Sometimes kids who are normally well behaved kids who are disciplined at home just do crazy weird things. But yes - I do think they should be corrected.

 

[cornflkgrl]

I agree that people can parent as they choose, but your post implies that there are two parenting styles: "authoritarian," and "gentle attachment" parenting. Of course there are more than two styles, and "obedient" children are not somehow "ungentle" or "unattached." Allowing a child to engage in a dangerous activity -- such as running into servers carrying heavy trays of hot food -- is not an example of "gentle attachment" parenting. Listening to your child talk, reading her a story, playing a game with her -- those are gentle attachment activities. These folks are talking about children who are either doing something dangerous, or who are literally screaming for attention from parents who have tuned them out.

Heavy trays of hot food? Are you quoting something I posted because I have no idea where that came from.
Respectfully, throwing a tantrum (as I referenced in the example of what the person I was addressing deemed "unacceptable behavior by societal standards) is not DANGEROUS behavior. Crying is a natural emotion. Anger is a natural emotion. Expression of emotion is not dangerous in and of itself. It might annoy some people to see people freely expressing emotion, but it is not dangerous. And I agree with you that parenting style implies NOTHING about the child's attachment, personality and/or behavior. But the posts directed at what I was saying seemed to imply that gentle peaceful parenting elicited misbehavior ("running into servers carrying heavy trays of hot food?".) There is no correlation. You can have parents that tell their kids "no" and use positive reinforcement and use consequences and are seemingly "in control,"" what have you, and the kids can still stand on tables and spit at people (for a variety of reasons) and you can have a parent that never once applies a "consequence" or spanks or grounds and that child sits at tables and uses their napkin and says please and thank you and never bothers anyone. However, I think most families and kids are somewhere in the middle and it has nothing to do with the style of parenting that was used. Which is, again, why TO EACH THEIR OWN.

On another note, I think it is funny the number of people who have addressed my post and told me different discipline and parenting techniques just based on my suggestion that we are free to parent how we wish. And judging from the sheer number of amazing teachers, grandparents, and parents on here, I would expect NO ONE at Disney World should have anything to worry about (statistically speaking). I would think these poorly-behaved kids would be in the minority, really.

 

[KnittingMom]

Dear Cornflkgrl,

I was responding to this sentence in your post "People are free to parent the way they choose in the US. If someone chooses not to be an authoritarian, that is their prerogative. If they choose gentle attachment parenting that is also their prerogative." Now, I may have misread those sentences, but because you listed two styles of parenting that people could choose from, I got the impression that you understood parenting to be a two choice system. My objection to your post was over the idea that there were only two styles. If your listing of the two styles meant something else, I missed your meaning.

I was also responding to many of the threads in this forum that are trying to distinguish between behavior that is downright dangerous, and behavior that is merely annoying: I would ask any toddler to stop running with scissors, but I'd likely simply smile through tired tears and wailings.

You later say that families can have behaving and misbehaving children and "it has nothing to do with the style of parenting that was used." I must respectfully disagree. While every child CAN and DOES misbehave, I firmly believe that some styles of parenting help decrease the odds of misbehavior. And I firmly believe that parenting that helps a child be happy and well-behaved and loved is better than parenting that does the opposite. I think you agree with me on this one.

 

[cornflkgrl]

Dear Cornflkgrl,
If your listing of the two styles meant something else, I missed your meaning.

It meant nothing. It was just an example of parenting styles that are out there that people use. I don't care what styles people use. I don't care what people do with their kids so long as they are not breaking laws or health codes at Disney World in my presence to where it is affecting my safety and enjoyment of the restaurant, at which point I will complain directly to Disney. For the very reason that I don't like to think about what other people are doing with their kids. It isn't my business. I can't believe I've discussed it this long.

Apparently when I posted just using the example of the parenting styles of authoritarian (because that was one of the prevailing methods I was seeing referenced here by way of description) vs. peaceful parenting and our rights in the US to parent as we wish in public, so long as we are not breaking laws or interfering with rules at Disney or health codes...and that if someone was doing one of those things, it is well within ones rights to complain to the manager and/or security at a Disney restaurant, my posts were read as follows (more or less..summarized):

I believe parents should not parent at all and be their kids friend instead of a parent and have no boundaries and there are only two styles of parenting (authoritative and attachment) and further, parents should let their little brats run around disney world and bite, hit, and kick people and their seats and run into waiters carrying heavy things and throw food and take food off other peoples plates. Also I don't have any respect for society or society's rules. In fact, I think we should just have all out anarchy. I don't even raise my kids. Wolves do it. (okay the last part I added )

I think that covers it.

 

[rideswithchrist]

You might want to bring you child to a hearing specialist. When my niece was that age she also talked very loud. I was sure she had a hearing problem but her mother kept saying that the pediatrician said she was fine. About a year later she went to a specialist and they found that she was almost deaf due to fluid in her ears and needed to have two drains put in. Her speaking voice got softer after the surgery, but she was still louder than most kids because she spent so much time not hearing well.

He is fine His second sister was the same way, they just talk so very loud in bursts at times. He has to be reminded a few times what an inside voice is and he brings it down...then it goes back up when he gets happy. She finally got a bit quieter when she turned 5 so we are hoping he follows suit. I did check out the hearing because my first born was quiet in comparison (And she still is)

 

[mousefan73]

Just had a thought. An establisment will not hesitate kicking a loud obnoxious adult out who has had a few too many. Yet extreme out of control kids get a free ride. ???Kids running , darting between servers carrying platters of hot food is just as dangerous as one who had too many stumbling to the washrooms.

 

[scrappingbuckeye]

Must be a relative of the woman at The Plaza that took out her electric shaver and shaved her legs at the table while we were dining.

Shut up! That's disgusting!

 

[winterwhite]

Just had a thought. An establisment will not hesitate kicking a loud obnoxious adult out who has had a few too many. Yet extreme out of control kids get a free ride. ???Kids running , darting between servers carrying platters of hot food is just as dangerous as one who had too many stumbling to the washrooms.

I always wondered this myself. An adult shouting for two hours would be asked to lower a speaking voice, but a child can't possibly be asked to.

My kid is three and they work on problem solving at daycare. If she is unhappy they are encouraged to:

1. State the way that they feel
2. Communicate how they feel the situation could be resolved
3. Discuss with the person who may be bothering them, what a solution that works for both might be,
4. Decide on a solution together.

At 3 years old she (and the others she goes to daycare with) are completely capable of this.

But a 7 year old can't possibly sit still and quietly at a restaurant because they are too "stimulated" it makes me wonder whether these people live under rocks and can't handle bright colors, or they actively encourage their kids to be hyperactive and communicate poorly. I can only assume it is the latter.

 

[chigirl]

I'm sure that most people that aren't fans of children have no real issues with well behaved children so we are really talking about children who are rude, obnoxious and otherwise miserable to be around. This thread offers plenty of examples. Why do you think that people should miss out odn everything that Disney has to offer just because some parents don't know how to be parents and allow their kids to ruin the experiences of others around them? How many of us, with and without kids, would stand up and applaud if Disney started to ask these parents to control their kids or leave? To be clear, this is the parents' fault until the kids are old enough to know better.

I run a very popular business (cant name it) that is PACKED with customers, including families, on weekends. I have an announcement I make on the PA system when bad behavior occurs...and in my example, it is 99% kids misbehaving (running, screaming, tripping old ladies, ripping open and damaging products) while mom and dad are hundreds of feet away, ignoring their tykes. I say, "Attention customers, for the safety of your children, your fellow customers and our employees, all kids under age 13 must be in the company of their parent or guardian at all times. Running, screaming, and other aggressive behavior is not enjoyed by anyone." 100% of the time, customers either laugh or thank me. The parents gather their kids up. I only do it when things get to a fever pitch. I love kids and I have empathy for parents who are dealing with a kiddie meltdown, but there are many parents who feel they can shop/dine etc and ignore their kids while the kids make everyone miserable/panicky. Kids acting goofy at Chuck E Cheese is one thing, jumping on a table at Narcoossees, not so much.

 

[Mazz519]

I sometime wonder what these parents let them get away with at home... Have 3 boys and they know the rules when we go out to eat.. instilled it in them when they were3 years old