I know it is the norm to gang up on USA when it comes to Covid, but why are deaths also high in other developed countries?

[Pink Partridge]

But in the end... it is not a competition.

Exactly.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Y'all it is a coronavirus. Other than masks, recommended precautions aren't much different ... We are fortunate that vaccines are forthcoming. Wasn't the original slogan "We're in this together"? Sadly we are more divided than ever.

 

[Pink Partridge]

SIL gave it to my brother but both have recovered.

That is wonderful to hear.

 

[Moliphino]

No, not why do you think that, because we are. I was asking why you think that is. Is it because people are lazy? Or is it the sheer size, the spread out nature of such a large country. And because we are so spread out, mass transit options just aren't available everywhere.

Not who you were asking, but yes to size and transit. A lot of Europe doesn't have the type of suburban areas that are so common in the US. People live within walking distance or can depend on public transportation much more easily to get to shops, schools, work, etc. Plus they have a much better train system to get all over Europe easily, they don't need to drive.

 

[anniemae]

I have also heard that the schools aren’t vectors for transmission, it’s what the kids, teachers and admin are doing outside of school. I know in my area, people are going to weddings, parties and other gatherings.

It's so frustrating. Our schools just went remote again. I see so many people having gatherings and not wearing masks. Kids from different households playing together etc. Its the behavior outside of school that is causing the spread IMO. The schools are very strict about wearing masks and distancing. The only thing that makes me nervous is that they unmask to eat (obviously) but it makes me uneasy because I feel that indoors + no mask = covid.

 

[DopeyDame]

I don't think it's a surprise to anyone that there is a rise in coronavirus cases now that winter is approaching. Health officials everywhere - US, Europe, Asia - were all warning that things would get worse once the weather started turning and people starting moving inside more.
Did you think "some countries in Europe are handling this better" means no deaths in Europe?

 

[Heigh-Ho]

But in the end... it is not a competition. No one will an award in 10 years who did best.

That's kind of why it felt the other comments were way out there. But even when on topic it was filled with disses towards the u.s basically the antithesis and said in such as way to sound superior to the u.s. despite us not having years down the road to know if any one method really worked or just swapped out one issue for another...maybe years of pent up frustration of feeling like the u.s. has acted like they are superior? I am not sure. Sorry didn't mean to re-bring that up just fit with your comments to me. But you're right it's not a one-sided issue.

I don't even know that there will be a best (I know you weren't actually meaning best) because it will be how you look at it-death rate, infection rate, economic impact, ability to bounce back as a nation or region and how long that took dependent on the economic health of the nation or region pre-COVID, social systems set up and their impact on it, cultural shifts, tourism impacts (both in rules and if people choose to go to one place less or more in subsequent years), and so much more.

I think you did a great job explaining and giving your perspective as impartially as possible with your comment even though I didn't quote it all

 

[Pea-n-Me]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...lockdown-Sweden-close-high-schools-month.html
Sweden will close its high schools for a month from next Monday and students will take online classes after 209 deaths were registered in the last two days.

The Scandinavian country, which has resisted taking coercive action to suppress coronavirus, is seeing infections rise and exceeding official forecasts.

Its Public Health Agency now predicts a peak in its second wave will be reached in mid-December as the total death passed 7,000 on Thursday

 

[Welsh_Dragon]

It's so frustrating. Our schools just went remote again. I see so many people having gatherings and not wearing masks. Kids from different households playing together etc. Its the behavior outside of school that is causing the spread IMO. The schools are very strict about wearing masks and distancing. The only thing that makes me nervous is that they unmask to eat (obviously) but it makes me uneasy because I feel that indoors + no mask = covid.

I agree with this. My daughter works and lives in a boarding school in England. They asked all the overseas students to return to school 14 days early and isolated them. All boarders were offered the chance to remain at school during half term, Exeats etc. They are all in bubbles, wear masks in communal areas etc. And yet the school has had a number of outbreaks. Why? Because some of the boarders who live locally have not obeyed the lockdown rules when they have returned home. They have attended parties, visited boyfriends at Uni etc.
When my son returned to Uni in October and moved into a student house with 5 others, within a week or so, 5 of the 6 tested positive. Luckily they had no symptoms and only tested because one person in an overlapping friendship group became ill and tested positive. They were students from all over the country and they behaved stupidly and selfishly ... going out to pubs, house parties etc.

 

[scoutie]

it’s what the kids, teachers and admin are doing outside of school.

This. I'm friends with many teachers in my kids' district, and their district has been closed since last March. Many of the teachers are getting it anyway, even though they haven't set foot in their school since March 12th.

 

[Welsh_Dragon]

Not who you were asking, but yes to size and transit. A lot of Europe doesn't have the type of suburban areas that are so common in the US. People live within walking distance or can depend on public transportation much more easily to get to shops, schools, work, etc. Plus they have a much better train system to get all over Europe easily, they don't need to drive.

I agree. I can only speak from personal experience but public fee paying schools here, put a very heavy emphasis on sports. For example my children were required to participate in some kind of sport as part of the school curriculum, for at least 2/3 hours every day, except Sundays. Also, children here cannot obtain a provisional driving licence until they are 17, so by the time they sit the theory test and pass the practical, they are approaching 18 and even then for many families the cost of insurance is prohibitively high. For a small engined, manual car the insurance for a man under 25 years old, is about £4000. So you rarely see children driving to school or driving whilst at Uni. Also, as you said, we can walk easily, not just because of distance but also because, other than motorways etc most of our roads are less ‘barren’ and we are crisscrossed by public footpaths. And in, for example, London we have buses and the underground and it’s easy to walk from landmark to landmark. Also, we have congestion charges to discourage people from driving.

 

[Welsh_Dragon]

What an odd comment. Sounds more like a reason to diss the u.s. than kindly explaining a difference. I'm not sure what it is but you spend a lot of time comparing the u.s. and elsewhere (not really an issue) but it usually is with a hint of disdain. Do you visit the u.s.? I can't imagine why if you do. Sorry if this comes off strong I just couldn't help but notice.

Perhaps we are all guilty of subconsciously stereotyping? Not helped by dreadful reality television and so called ‘celebrities’. Maybe I am wrong, (it happens) but I don’t think WDW is a true reflection of societal norms. In my head, I believe that all people from NY and Chicago look like Nicole Kidman in The Undoing or Calista Flockhart in Ally McNeal, but that people from, for example, Florida, have a tendency towards obesity. I know it isn’t true but that is the stereotype I have been ‘fed’. It’s a bit like believing that all Northerners live on chips and gravy and people from Cornwall live on pasties, and it’s why U.K. comedies such as Stella or Bread or Gavin and Stacey are so popular here. I think as a people, we (including the Irish here @BadPinkTink ) are generally, far more self deprecating than Americans. And we have different sensibilities. So, for example, we refer to overweight people in ways Americans may find offensive; as fat or obese and never fluffy or Pooh sized. Conversely, Americans use phrases to describe children and adults with disabilities, in ways we find offensive ... handicapped, special needs childs etc. We are just different and ALL much the better for that.

The statistics appear to show that COVID does not respect age or weight or class, anyone can become infected, but sadly those who do not take care of themselves, and are for whatever reason unhealthy or in poor health, are most at risk of complications and sadly death.

 

[cvjw]

I wish we had a true number of people who actually died of COVID. We don’t. I know 3 people personally who died with COVID, but were on deaths doorstep from something unrelated. All were recorded as dying of COVID when they actually didn’t - they were already dying.

If we were given true death numbers, people wouldn’t be so petrified.

 

[Pink Partridge]

And we have different sensibilities. So, for example, we refer to overweight people in ways Americans may find offensive; as fat or obese and never fluffy or Pooh sized.

I have never heard anyone describe a fat person as "fluffy" or "Pooh sized" until I joined The Dis. Believe me, most Americans don't refer to fat people in that manner. I think/hope that's just a DIS thing.

 

[Pink Partridge]

Conversely, Americans use phrases to describe children and adults with disabilities, in ways we find offensive ... handicapped, special needs childs etc. We are just different and ALL much the better for that.

We say "Exceptional Children" (EC) education in our particular school system now. But we have used "Special Needs" before. My friend refers to her daughter as having "special needs". I had no idea that was offensive in some countries.

Are there no labels? Or is it referred in a different way?

 

[mrodgers]

Some view it as people not doing what they are told they are suppose to be doing it. I view it as people doing what they are told they are suppose to be doing is spreading it. Constantly touching your face and filthy mask with the false sense of security and sense of superiority is what is spreading it.

 

[mrodgers]

I have to admit that bugs me a bit. We can't simply say thin is healthy and overweight isn't because you can still have health conditions (and at times worse than those overweight) if you are considered a healthy weight.

But that isn't the same as discussing COVID and pre-existing/underlying health conditions. The effects being overweight has on a person with COVID isn't the same for every person but neither does it mean you were perfectly healthy either. Young, old, whomever. Most often I see it, at least in the news, with young or very young individuals used as some sort of warning. We can use their age to reflect that young can still be affected but it shouldn't be stigma to also openly discuss the underlying health condition (and actually recognize it as such).

Was I healthy in the past? Am I healthy now? I am overweight, would look anorexic at the 140 lb. the "experts" think I should be, but logically I should be at 180. I'm 100 over the "healthy" weight and 60 over where I think I should be.

Now about that health. It doesn't matter what my weight is or was, I have extremely high cholesterol, blood pressure, triglycerides, and mildly high blood sugar. Since riding the bicycle 6 years ago, all that information has dropped like a rock to near perfect levels. So, am I healthy or unhealthy? Am I less healthy at 240 lb. with normal blood work numbers than my coworker at 158 lb. and Cholesterol at 350ish and triglycerides at 800? He's not overweight, a spitting image of a healthy person.

Weight is a very minor part of being healthy.

 

[jrmasm]

Some view it as people not doing what they are told they are suppose to be doing it. I view it as people doing what they are told they are suppose to be doing is spreading it. Constantly touching your face and filthy mask with the false sense of security and sense of superiority is what is spreading it.

 

[Welsh_Dragon]

We say "Exceptional Children" (EC) education in our particular school system now. But we have used "Special Needs" before. My friend refers to her daughter as having "special needs". I had no idea that was offensive in some countries.

Are there no labels? Or is it referred in a different way?

We don’t use handicap or handicapped at all, ever. When describing people, the thinking is that one should see the person before the disability or difficulty, so child with special educational needs or person with a disability. And don’t ever mix up a learning disability with a learning difficulty. Handicapped is the real no no.

 

[Welsh_Dragon]

I have never heard anyone describe a fat person as "fluffy" or "Pooh sized" until I joined The Dis. Believe me, most Americans don't refer to fat people in that manner. I think/hope that's just a DIS thing.

You see that trouble this forum could get me in! Particularly as, if you describe someone as ‘fluffy’ here, then you either mean ‘flakey’ or that they break wind (toot) a lot.