How would you reform the US Education system.

[C.Ann]

Please keep this non-political, Please.

I guess there is talk again that we are slipping behind the rest of the world in education (at least that was one of the segments on "Morning Joe" today). So how would YOU like to see the education system changed.

Here's what I would do

1) Bring back excellence.

In an effort to make every child feel special, we no longer celebrate academic excellence. For example, High Schools are eliminating the Valedictorian. In my son's K-8 school, the acknowledgement for students making the A or A/B honor was degraded from a celebratory breakfast with special certificates to an all students assembly with virtually every student receiving some sort of award. There is a certificate for students that raise a SINGLE class grade one level (i.e. a C to a B). Even my son realizes his A or A/B honor role award is no longer special.

2) Reduce the emphasis on extracurricular activities.

I know colleges are partly responsible for this because they now consider extracurricular activities as an important part of the application. But in reality there are a limited number of hours in each day and every hour spent on extracurricular activities is one hour less spend learning or studying.

3) Bring back Trade/tech schools.

Not every child is going to be a surgeon. Some are going to be mechanics or plumbers. It seems that Tech schools have lost favor because they are viewed as inferior education. They're not. They are preparing certain students for a career that doesn't require college. Nothing wrong with that.

I agree with everything you have said - particularly #3..

The only thing I would add is "mastery learning" - where students don't move on to the next level (using math for an example - mastering adding and subtracting before moving on to multiplication - then mastering multiplication before moving on to division - etc.).. At one time there were several schools in NY that were specifically "mastery" schools and it was very helpful to those who had difficulties in certain areas.. The children actually excelled faster and had much higher grades upon entering traditional high schools..

 

[castleview]

I think many of the problems regarding our kids' academic achievement have little or nothing to do with the schools, and until these social problems are addressed there will be no genuine significant change. That's about as much as I can say without getting political.

Haven't read this whole thread yet, but what I bolded is huge. While social problems shouldn't be swept under the carpet the way they were a generation ago, they shouldn't be used as an excuse to not perform and especially not as an excuse to interrupt other students' performance.

I'll be getting super flamed for this, but we also need to be realistic about mainstreaming and special education. While many special needs students can be accommodated in the classroom, some kids are just not going to get anything out of a regular classroom. There's no need for a sixteen year old who is learning to button his shirt to be in a history class. At best, this is wasting a child's times. At worst, it is wasting the other student's time…at the absolute worst, one child can be a danger to another child. And while IEPs are good, some do a little too much catering to a perfectly able student. We are not doing a lot of kids any favors by modifying lessons, grading procedures, or behavioral expectations to the point where the kids are not responsible for themselves. This paragraph was not meant to offend special needs parents. I'm simply saying that many parents and kids have hijacked and exploited special needs modifications from those who truly need it.

 

[freckles and boo]

Most 3rd graders can do simple Algebra-heck, our kids were doing simple algebra in 1st grade-like a lot of kids. Math is about the facts, yes you need some reasoning skills but if you don't learn that 2+2=4, the whole concept of math is lost. I don't know of a single math teacher that likes Everyday Math.

Not to completely hijack this thread, but I love Everyday Math as a parent and the teachers at my older daughter's school do, too. Admittedly it is weak it supporting basic math facts so our district has initiated a program of facts learning that runs parallel to EM. Everyday Math doesn't work for my younger daughter, who is very intelligent but learns differently because she is autistic. She needs much more linear program.

 

[golfgal]

Eliminate the ACT test. There only should be one test for college.

Make PE an optional class starting in middle school. Let the jocks excel and the nerds take computer, writing, or whatever they are excellent at.

All high schools should offer the same classes.

Find a different system for funding schools. It does not work. Relying on property values, test scores and class attendance is stupid. It is a failing system.

Allow kids the freedom to take a higher level class even though they are not on "the track". Here in MO some of the schools do not allow "regular kids" to take biology their freshman yr in HS. Only kids on the gifted track get to take it.

Conversely my 13dd is gifted in English and she is going to try and get into the honors english this yr. The honors teacher would take her in 1 second because she belongs there. However she has to go through the system to try and get into her class.

Those are my main complaints.

Actually, if you are going to eliminate a test, eliminate the SAT. The SAT only measures math and English skills, the ACT also measures those plus science, social studies and writing skills.

 

[sparklynails23]

Limit inclusion. There is no point having children who function at a two or three year old level in classes with third graders and up, and we cannot afford to give each special needs child his or her very own teacher. It's also very disruptive to the rest of the class. I don't think these kids should be warehoused, but they should be given their own classroom with a higher teacher to student ratio.

Limit spending on football and basketball and auditoriums.

 

[daughtersrus]

There's a lot of talk on the thread about trade schools. While I agree that they are needed, I think that it's going to be difficult for them to find a job once they graduate. So many of the trades have laid off hundreds of thousands of workers. The wait here (Chicago suburbs) right now for an electrician that was laid off a year ago is at least another 2 1/2 years. Elevator repairmen is at least a 3 year wait and I'm sure carpenters and other trades are just as long. DH is an auto tech at a dealership and they haven't moved an apprentice up to journeymen in over 15 years. While they may have the skills, it's unlikely that they're going to find a job in the field. The cost of many of the trade schools is comparable to college.

Regarding the OP, without getting political, I think that we need to find a way to fund education. There is a huge difference is resources available to the schools/teachers depending on where the school is located.

 

[Toad_Passenger]

I don't think you can fix the system without doing something about the politics.

In Pennsylvania the school system is stuck behind a long line of political personalities and groups. The budgets and grants are determined by political groups and politicians. The teachers' Unions are being led by larger State & Federal Unions each seeking to push their own agenda.

Anytime you're talking about public funds, and allowing outside agendas (Unionist or whatever) you are only cooking up a recipe for disaster.

If only there were an easy way to remove these political elements from the system, but you just can't. Privatization of certain school systems may work in certain areas of the United States, but it won't work everywhere.

I agree about the whole teaching to the "test" situation. That needs to be changed.

I also agree about removing tenure. There are plenty of teachers who are teaching well beyond their "expiration" date, and others who had a date that was only 1 or 2 days old. Getting rid of these teachers, who are basically "freeloading" off of taxpayer money will help trim budgets and remove some of the animosity created between community & teachers.

But, as I said, I really think the politicization of the school system is what broke the whole system. I think things are going to get worse before they get better.

 

[castleview]

I disagree with this--if you cut the administration then the teachers end up doing administrative tasks vs teaching. I am sure there are some schools that might be able to cut one or two but for the most part, at least around here, the administration is the size it needs to be to be effective. Administrators do a LOT more then people think.

They already are. I'm not denying that administrators do a lot of work. But DH's school system is extremely top heaving with a superintendent, assistant superintendent, associate superintendent, and two curriculum coordinators. For the size of the school system, it's ridiculous. Plus the teachers normally get time consuming requests from central office so that one of the above can put together a "study". Every time DH gets one, he wonders if they are looking for something to do.

 

[sparklynails23]

They already are. I'm not denying that administrators do a lot of work. But DH's school system is extremely top heaving with a superintendent, assistant superintendent, associate superintendent, and two curriculum coordinators. For the size of the school system, it's ridiculous. Plus the teachers normally get time consuming requests from central office so that one of the above can put together a "study". Every time DH gets one, he wonders if they are looking for something to do.

Ours has a superintendent, an assistant, a business coordinator, an accountant, an outside accountant, five principals, an assistant principal, a myriad of guidance counselors, a child psychologist, etc. The list is endless. They graduate about 150 kids a year.

 

[LisaR]

Pay teachers more! Bottom line! Teachers don't make enough. We need more teachers in public schools to reduce the size of the classrooms.
Stop cutting school budgets. It seems to be on the news every week that when a city or town is in financial difficulty they go right to the school budget.

If every teacher in America made $100,000 a year, do you believe all the issues that schools have would be resolved?

 

[brerrabbit]

First step is a general realization by everyone involved that throwing money at education is not the way to fix education. I think a major overhaul of the allocation of the current dollars is in order. The example I give is Allen, Texas. A district in the Dallas area with one high school. Their football team is awsome, deep into the playoffs every year. Their marching band has 650 kids in it and covers the field at halftime. They wanted a bigger stadium so they have a bond election and the voters overwhelmingly approve it. $60 million to build a new stadium that seats over 20,000 with stands that wrap the endzone in a horseshoe configuaration. Okay the voters approved it, big deal, is that really the best way to spend all that money?

Second step is the realization that every kid is not brilliant and college material. No one wants to give into this but most high schools tout the number of graduates attending college as a measure of their success. The reality is high schools need more vocational programs. Granted studies show college graduates earn more but if a kid will not make it in college wouldn't it be better to offer trades in high school that could secure them good jobs upon graduation. The world needs auto mechanics, plumbers, electricians, etc. By giving kids a direction earlier and not telling them that failure to attend college equates to failure in life the syatem creates educated graduates with a chance at success instead of college dropouts with no direction.

The final piece which schools have no control over is the parental attitudes. If the parents don't do their job and stress the importance of education and always assume their little Dick and Janes are perfect in every way it would help considerably. This problem really extends to our society as a whole. Schools are helpless when it comes to disiplining students. As a result problem students disrupt the system for everyone else and cause undue amounts of time, effort, and money to be spent on less than 10% of the student population because the parents don't control their kids. I see it every day because my wife works at a Middle School and the things that happen there would shock most people.

Fixing schools has to be a grass roots start at the bottom process and I can assure you that Washington, the Federal government, State governments and even local school boards do not have a clue how to start, but they are the ones currently controling the rules and the money and as long as they do nothing will change.

 

[golfgal]

Limit inclusion. There is no point having children who function at a two or three year old level in classes with third graders and up, and we cannot afford to give each special needs child his or her very own teacher. It's also very disruptive to the rest of the class. I don't think these kids should be warehoused, but they should be given their own classroom with a higher teacher to student ratio.

Limit spending on football and basketball and auditoriums.

These are already very SMALL parts of a school budget and in a lot of schools where they are popular activities the programs are self funded through gate revenue, concession sales, etc. As far as auditoriums go, in our school 90% of the school is either in band, choir or dance and they ALL use the auditorium-I have no problems what so ever supporting something that so many kids use.

 

[MrsPete]

I think many of the problems regarding our kids' academic achievement have little or nothing to do with the schools, and until these social problems are addressed there will be no genuine significant change. That's about as much as I can say without getting political.

I agree. We're trying to educate EVERY CHILD -- something that is really quite unique -- and every child's parents aren't particularly interested in supporting him and helping him earn an education.

 

[daughtersrus]

I think many of the problems regarding our kids' academic achievement have little or nothing to do with the schools, and until these social problems are addressed there will be no genuine significant change. That's about as much as I can say without getting political.

I agree

Even if all of the suggestions were to take place, unless we somehow require parents to be involved in the education of their children, we will not see the results that we're looking for. So much goes on outside of the classroom that affects student performance that is out of the control of the teachers and school system.

Limit inclusion. There is no point having children who function at a two or three year old level in classes with third graders and up, and we cannot afford to give each special needs child his or her very own teacher. It's also very disruptive to the rest of the class. I don't think these kids should be warehoused, but they should be given their own classroom with a higher teacher to student ratio.

.

What do you mean higher teacher/student ratio? Would you group these class also by ability or put all of the kids that don't fit the norm into the same classroom?

 

[MrsPete]

I will also say that extra curriculasr are NOT a conflict with education-in fact you will find that the best students in the schools are the ones involved in the extracurriculars.

Agreed. Look at the best students in the school (meaning those who are most academic), and you'll find kids who are involved in sports, scouts, church group, community theater, band . . . all sorts of good, wholesome activities. Look at the at-risk kids, and you'll find kids who go home every day and watch TV or hang out on the streets.

A generalization? Sure, but one that's true more often than not.

 

[MrsPete]

Pay teachers more! Bottom line! Teachers don't make enough. We need more teachers in public schools to reduce the size of the classrooms.
Stop cutting school budgets. It seems to be on the news every week that when a city or town is in financial difficulty they go right to the school budget.

Hear, hear! Over the years I've heard some of the best and brightest students say, "I really want to be a teacher, but I want to earn more money . . . so instead I'm going into _____."

Our country has never decided that educating children is really all that worthwhile.

 

[Disneycrazymom]

eliminate the NEA and any politician who has never taught from making any decision about educating our kids.

More money is not really the issue imho. Most of the "money" is so earmarked it never is really useful. It is used to buy up what ever the "new and wonderful" program of the minute is. ie everyday math. Expensive and no better than what we had before. But the text book company made a boat load of money selling all the stuff that we need. Next year it will be some other "new and wonderful" program and all the last years "new and wonderful" stuff will sit in a closet. And again the text book people will make a boat load of money.

Stop seeing all kids as the same kid. They are different and need different challenges and different kinds of classrooms. Standards are good but in moderation. Testing as the only inductor of success is not telling the true story.

Finally lets embrace personal responsibility for education. It is after all the kid's education.

 

[castleview]

What do you mean higher teacher/student ratio? Would you group these class also by ability or put all of the kids that don't fit the norm into the same classroom?

I'm guessing (and could be wrong), she's talking about the kids that have two teachers and several aides. Many of the kids at our school have a one-on-one aide throughout the day in addition to the classroom teacher and the special ed teacher.

 

[MrsPete]

My son's High School has 160 students. Their graduation rate is for all practical purposes 100% and their college attendance rate is over 90%. The 2000 student High School graduates about 65% of students and that number is falling.

You have to keep in mind that statistics can be misleading.

Here's an example that makes me a little mad: My daughter has a good friend who's an excellent student, always made excellent grades, was involved in school activities, etc. Her parents both had medical-something jobs at the hospital, and she has plans to do something similar. Her older sister is in college, and she's definitely going to college.

Now, here's where my story really begins: Her dad got a new job somewhere up North, and they moved away. According to statistics, SHE IS NOW A HIGH SCHOOL DROP OUT.

Yes, our school is forced to count this girl -- an outstanding student -- as one of our yearly drop outs. No matter that she is now enrolled in a new school up north and will absolutely graduate on time from that school. She is a drop out, a black mark against our school, a negative mark on our school's reputation. That's beyond unfair -- it's a lie!

Think about how many teenagers move back and forth between mom's house and dad's house at some point in their high school career. If they change schools in the process, statistically they become drop outs.

Similarly, a kid who falls behind academically -- let's say a girl who has a baby her junior year and fails several classes, but then gets back on track and graduates a year late -- is counted as a drop out!

So don't take that 65% of all American kids gradaute from high school statistic all that seriously.

 

[dejr_8]

Regarding the OP, without getting political, I think that we need to find a way to fund education. There is a huge difference is resources available to the schools/teachers depending on where the school is located.

One of the points that was made during the discussion on "Morning Joe" was the we - the US - already spend more dollars per student than every (?) other country. We are not getting the "return on our education dollars". So the solution is probably not spending more.