How long did you rear face your child's carseat?

[princessmom29]

I don't think you want data, I think you just want to be persnickety.

But to indulge you, even though it's been stated in this thread repeatedly...

There is ample factual data to show that rear-facing after age 1 statistically results in less injury, less critical injury and less death. That's the bottom line. If a child's legs are uninjured but they've suffered an internal decapitation, it doesn't really mean anything. Their neck and spine must be protected, because statistically those injuries are not fixable. Broken legs are. But, again, there is no evidence whatsoever that legs are at greater risk when older chidlren are rear-facing. It's not borne out in any of the facts.

I don't think you get what I am saking at all. I am not arguing that rear-facing until age 2 is better, or that it results in fewer life threatening injuries, it obviously does. All I would like to see is car seat manufactureers looking at addressing the issue of children's legs not being accomadated by these seats. Tehre is always room for improvment and making products safer. I would love to see it happen here. While certianly not as serious as a spinal injury, a leg break can in fact have lifelong consequences for a child. Their ability to walk normally can be permenantly affected and a femur fracture is difficult to rehab. It we could prevent them from happening, why is that a bad thing. If you can show me a study that shows there is no need for it, then great, but if not I think it should be addressed. That does NOT mean I am suggesting that anyone should forward face thier child becuase of it. The benefits of rearfacing still outweigh the risks.

 

[Bren's Mom]

I don't think you get what I am saking at all. I am not arguing that rear-facing until age 2 is better, or that it results in fewer life threatening injuries, it obviously does. All I would like to see is car seat manufactureers looking at addressing the issue of children's legs not being accomadated by these seats. Tehre is always room for improvment and making products safer. I would love to see it happen here. While certianly not as serious as a spinal injury, a leg break can in fact have lifelong consequences for a child. Their ability to walk normally can be permenantly affected and a femur fracture is difficult to rehab. It we could prevent them from happening, why is that a bad thing. If you can show me a study that shows there is no need for it, then great, but if not I think it should be addressed. That does NOT mean I am suggesting that anyone should forward face thier child becuase of it. The benefits of rearfacing still outweigh the risks.

OK, yes, I do think I was misunderstanding you.

But I also don't think you're understanding me. You are ASSUMING there are leg injuries, but we're not seeing them in any of the statistics. No statistics on leg injuries as a result of rear-facing. We do see forward-facing leg injuries, though, due to their legs flying forward. But there simply aren't documented rear-facing leg injuries.

 

[jodifla]

Of course, no one here has brought up another good reason NOT to keep your child rear-facing....the fact that it's much easier to forget your child when they are not facing front.

There are more and more cases of this since children have been turned around to face the rear.

 

[justhat]

Of course, no one here has brought up another good reason NOT to keep your child rear-facing....the fact that it's much easier to forget your child when they are not facing front.

There are more and more cases of this since children have been turned around to face the rear.

Whether rear or front facing, this is something I will never understand. Do these people never think about their child once during the day? Never once do they think "I hope the baby's having a good day at day care?" I know I think about my kids when I drop them off, so I can't imagine how that could occur.

 

[jodifla]

Whether rear or front facing, this is something I will never understand. Do these people never think about their child once during the day? Never once do they think "I hope the baby's having a good day at day care?" I know I think about my kids when I drop them off, so I can't imagine how that could occur.

This Pulitzer Prize winning peace details it. It's very graphic, and stayed with me for weeks and weeks after:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/27/AR2009022701549.html

In it, what all the parents had in common was a change in routine. He talks to memory experts and they go through the science of why this happens.


"Death by hyperthermia" is the official designation. When it happens to young children, the facts are often the same: An otherwise loving and attentive parent one day gets busy, or distracted, or upset, or confused by a change in his or her daily routine, and just... forgets a child is in the car. It happens that way somewhere in the United States 15 to 25 times a year, parceled out through the spring, summer and early fall. The season is almost upon us.

Two decades ago, this was relatively rare. But in the early 1990s, car-safety experts declared that passenger-side front airbags could kill children, and they recommended that child seats be moved to the back of the car; then, for even more safety for the very young, that the baby seats be pivoted to face the rear. If few foresaw the tragic consequence of the lessened visibility of the child . . . well, who can blame them? What kind of person forgets a baby?


To me, the issue of rear facing goes beyond the "Well, it's safer, so of course GOOD parents would want to do this."

But there are kids who get carsick riding backward, there are parents like me who had their kids in the car routinely for 2 to 5 hour trips, where rear-facing doesn't work well, there are more risks of choking because you can't see their face easily.

Parents should certainly rearface if they choose...what makes me angry is that if you disagree, you are just lazy or don't want to be a good parent.

 

[tlbwriter]

All I would like to see is car seat manufactureers looking at addressing the issue of children's legs not being accomadated by these seats. Tehre is always room for improvment and making products safer. I would love to see it happen here.

Probably no one is addressing the issue because it isn't actually much of an issue. Their legs are being accommodated by the seats. Because their legs are not breaking.

While certianly not as serious as a spinal injury, a leg break can in fact have lifelong consequences for a child. Their ability to walk normally can be permenantly affected and a femur fracture is difficult to rehab. It we could prevent them from happening, why is that a bad thing. If you can show me a study that shows there is no need for it, then great, but if not I think it should be addressed. That does NOT mean I am suggesting that anyone should forward face thier child becuase of it. The benefits of rearfacing still outweigh the risks.

Unfortunately, while I can find many sources referring to studies, the studies themselves are not turning up online.

From The National Institutes of Health:

The lower extremity is among the most frequently injured body regions for children restrained by forward facing child restraint systems (FFCRS), accounting for 28% of their clinically significant injuries, defined as AIS 2 and greater injuries excluding concussions.

From CPSafety:

Won't my child be uncomfortable? Where do his legs go?

Many parents have the misconception that children are uncomfortable or at risk for leg injury by having their legs up on the vehicle seat or bent when kept rear-facing. These concepts are completely incorrect. First, children are more flexible than adults so what we perceive as uncomfortable is not for children. Think about how your child sits in everyday play. Do they sit with their legs straight out in front of them? When they sit on the couch, do they purposely sit so their legs dangle out over the edge? No. In real, everyday life, toddlers and preschoolers CHOSE to sit with their legs folded up - that IS comfort to them.

Second, there is not a single documented case of children's legs, hips, etc. breaking or being injured in a crash due to longer rear-facing. There are plenty of cases of head and neck injury in forward-facing children that could have been prevented if the child had remained rear-facing. However, even if a leg or hip were broken or injured, it can be fixed. A damaged spinal cord (from forward-facing too soon) cannot be repaired and subjects the child to lifelong disability or death.

From The BMJ (British Medical Journal):

Concerns that parents may have about using rear facing seats at an older age include motion sickness and the comfort and safety of the child’s legs. However, the leg is among the most frequently injured body regions for children in forward facing seats.6 Group 1 rear facing seats have modifications to provide leg room. No published evidence compares leg injuries or motion sickness in rear facing and forward facing seats.

From Consumer Reports:

My baby's legs are really bent against the seatback.

One of the most common concerns for parents is that their child's legs are bent and appear uncomfortable against the seatback, and in that position are at a higher risk for injury in a crash.

First, children are far more flexible than we are and most likely aren't uncomfortable in this position. Second, crash data shows that lower-extremity injuries (such as those to the legs) are rare for children who ride rear-facing and are as likely to happen rear facing as forward-facing. Riding forward-facing does increase the risk of head and spinal injuries however, which are far more serious than a broken leg.

From The Car Seat Lady:

What about the baby's legs?
Many parents and even some pediatricians mistakenly think that a child should turn forward-facing when her legs touch the back of the vehicle seat, thinking that this leg position is uncomfortable and/or unsafe. This is untrue. In our experience installing 15,000 car seats, we've seen hundreds of children over the age of 1 riding rear-facing. Many of them are very verbal 2 and 3 year-olds and none have complained of their legs hurting. While your 2-year-old may look uncomfortable riding rear-facing – as they sit with their legs crossed or in the “frog-legged” position – rest assured that they are both safe and comfortable. Have you ever watched a 5 year old sleep in the car with their chin on their chest? If you tried sleeping like this your neck would hurt for a week – but the 5-year-old never complains of a stiff neck. Kids are much more flexible than adults and can sit and sleep comfortably in positions that would make an adult very uncomfortable.

Simply put, there are ZERO documented cases of rear-facing children breaking their legs, hips, feet, etc., due to their feet touching the back of the vehicle seat. However, since it looks plausible, this rumor persists. Studies show that forward-facing kids are more likely to have leg injuries.

 

[twinboysmom]

Jodifla, I understand your point but no where in this article does this specifically say whether these poor parents had there children forward or rear facing. I have seen numerous articles about this happening in parents magazines and the like but not once is your argument that this is being caused by extended rear facing mentioned. In fact the last article I read a few months ago the young toddler was forward facing. What I have seen suggested to prevent this type of thing from happening is to put items you must have for work in your back seat such as your purse, brief case, even cell phone. Also to have day care providers call if your child is not there that day. These are tragic events but I would need to see actual statistics linking these events to extended rear facing.

As for the lengthy car trips that rear facing doesn't work well, our family lives 3 hours away and we frequently visit. We also vacation at my parents condo 6 hours away frequently, not a problem. Although we have a built in DVD player, we bought one of the dual headset types and put them on the back seat head rests. I also spent quite some time putting a mirror in just the right spot so I can see them easily in my rear view mirror. Took a little trial and error but it worked great.

Those of you that forward face earlier, I have seen mentioned feel like you are being made to be bad parents. This is not so. Some of us just feel it is safer to keep our youngsters pointed toward the back for a little longer. If you don't agree that is ok. At least we are all agreeing car seats need to be used. We still have lots of little ones in no car seats around here despite parents being given free car seats in the hospital. Truly unbelievable!

 

[amylynne01]

This Pulitzer Prize winning peace details it. It's very graphic, and stayed with me for weeks and weeks after:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/27/AR2009022701549.html

In it, what all the parents had in common was a change in routine. He talks to memory experts and they go through the science of why this happens.


"Death by hyperthermia" is the official designation. When it happens to young children, the facts are often the same: An otherwise loving and attentive parent one day gets busy, or distracted, or upset, or confused by a change in his or her daily routine, and just... forgets a child is in the car. It happens that way somewhere in the United States 15 to 25 times a year, parceled out through the spring, summer and early fall. The season is almost upon us.

Two decades ago, this was relatively rare. But in the early 1990s, car-safety experts declared that passenger-side front airbags could kill children, and they recommended that child seats be moved to the back of the car; then, for even more safety for the very young, that the baby seats be pivoted to face the rear. If few foresaw the tragic consequence of the lessened visibility of the child . . . well, who can blame them? What kind of person forgets a baby?


To me, the issue of rear facing goes beyond the "Well, it's safer, so of course GOOD parents would want to do this."

But there are kids who get carsick riding backward, there are parents like me who had their kids in the car routinely for 2 to 5 hour trips, where rear-facing doesn't work well, there are more risks of choking because you can't see their face easily.

Parents should certainly rearface if they choose...what makes me angry is that if you disagree, you are just lazy or don't want to be a good parent.

This could just as easily happen with FFing kids. If all it takes is a change in routine for a parent to forget a child, direction does not matter. I read the article, but I found no mention that this was more common with rear-facing children than forward-facing children.

I am a parent who chooses to rear-face past the legal minimum because I am convinced it is safer. However, all I want of other parents is to follow the law when it comes to FFing. Children must be 1yr old AND 20lbs before turning around, not one or the other. If you choose to FF at 1yr, then that's your choice. If you choose to RF past 1yr, then that's your choice. I can't get worked up over what I think of others' parenting decisions, or I'd never sleep again. I only worry about MY girls and their safety.

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

There is no problem whatsoever with kids legs touching or kicking the back of the seat. It doesn't matter if they fling them off over the side, doesn't matter if they have to sit cross-legged, doesn't matter if they put them up on the vehicle seat back (although once they're wearing shoes you might want to cover it). What matters is their neck/spine. It is so much more protected when rear-facing.

At some point, kids with long legs in shorter seat based seats can and do get too cramped. (Older Britax seats are one that comes to mind.) But many people are able to easily rear-face their kids until 3-4 years of age before that happens, even in the shortest of seat bases.

Newer seats are coming on the market every day with longer seat bases to give older toddlers/preschoolers more room to rear-face, in addition to manufacturer's giving us higher rear-facing weight limits.

It is not true that these seats with longer bases making it harder to have room in the front. Once a child can hold their own head upright, the seat no longer needs to be at the 45 degree angle required for car seats carrying newborns. An older child can be quite upright in their seat when rear-facing, and take up no more room than a forward-facing seat. That said, though, my feeling is if you (general, you) are able to manage from birth to age 1 with a rear-facing seat taking up space in the back...you can manage to age 2 or 3 also.

Queen2PrincessG, keep your dd rear-facing. She will be much safer that way! There is absolutely no question that between the age of 1 and 2 your dd will be 5 times safer rear-facing than forward-facing.

Coleen
CPST

THANKS! It's not an issue that she is kicking the seat. I'm just thinking that if she can kick the seat now how soon till her legs are cramped? KWIM?

 

[jodifla]

This could just as easily happen with FFing kids. If all it takes is a change in routine for a parent to forget a child, direction does not matter. I read the article, but I found no mention that this was more common with rear-facing children than forward-facing children.

I am a parent who chooses to rear-face past the legal minimum because I am convinced it is safer. However, all I want of other parents is to follow the law when it comes to FFing. Children must be 1yr old AND 20lbs before turning around, not one or the other. If you choose to FF at 1yr, then that's your choice. If you choose to RF past 1yr, then that's your choice. I can't get worked up over what I think of others' parenting decisions, or I'd never sleep again. I only worry about MY girls and their safety.

It's in bold, right in the part where I quoted, that lessened visibility is a contributor to the increasing amount of kids left in the back seat.

The problem is, you are just seeing the back of a carseat. You aren't seeing a child's face in your peripheral vision with you grab your purse, etc.

 

[Minniemouse07]

It's in bold, right in the part where I quoted, that lessened visibility is a contributor to the increasing amount of kids left in the back seat.

The problem is, you are just seeing the back of a carseat. You aren't seeing a child's face in your peripheral vision with you grab your purse, etc.

There are definitely things you can do to lessen the chance of leaving your child in a vehicle when they are rear facing.

A number of my friends (and myself) put their purse/bag in the back seat EVERY trip. This forces you to look in the back of the vehicle to retrieve the bag whenever you get out.

Another idea is to place a stuffed animal in the seat when it isn't in use, and then place it in the front seat of the car when it is.

There are others...we used the putting our stuff in the back seat. It worked well for us.

 

[Bren's Mom]

THANKS! It's not an issue that she is kicking the seat. I'm just thinking that if she can kick the seat now how soon till her legs are cramped? KWIM?

I understand, and I can assure you that it's most likely she can rear-face without being too cramped for a good long time yet.

Here are just a few pics from the CPSafety album, all of MUCH older kids in one of the seats with the shortest bases...as you can see, they all do just fine with their legs.

http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/JanaeRA.aspx

http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/JennaM.aspx

http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/Quinn.aspx

And this is my kid. A friend stopped by with a new Radian, and for fun we tried out my ds in it. At the time he was about 4.5 and about 38lbs. In my car he was already riding forward-facing because my seats all had 35lbs rear-facing limits and he had reached that a while back. He was perfectly comfortable and happy as you can see...

 

[justhat]

Jodifla, I understand your point but no where in this article does this specifically say whether these poor parents had there children forward or rear facing. I have seen numerous articles about this happening in parents magazines and the like but not once is your argument that this is being caused by extended rear facing mentioned. In fact the last article I read a few months ago the young toddler was forward facing. What I have seen suggested to prevent this type of thing from happening is to put items you must have for work in your back seat such as your purse, brief case, even cell phone. Also to have day care providers call if your child is not there that day. These are tragic events but I would need to see actual statistics linking these events to extended rear facing.

As for the lengthy car trips that rear facing doesn't work well, our family lives 3 hours away and we frequently visit. We also vacation at my parents condo 6 hours away frequently, not a problem. Although we have a built in DVD player, we bought one of the dual headset types and put them on the back seat head rests. I also spent quite some time putting a mirror in just the right spot so I can see them easily in my rear view mirror. Took a little trial and error but it worked great.

Those of you that forward face earlier, I have seen mentioned feel like you are being made to be bad parents. This is not so. Some of us just feel it is safer to keep our youngsters pointed toward the back for a little longer. If you don't agree that is ok. At least we are all agreeing car seats need to be used. We still have lots of little ones in no car seats around here despite parents being given free car seats in the hospital. Truly unbelievable!

I completely agree.

We used to live in Washington, DC and my family is in NJ so we made many, many car trips with the kids, a minimum of 4 hours each way (and yeah, like 4 hours happened much in the NE corridor!!), and my kids were fine rearfacing. In fact, it was because of the long drives that I preferred rearfacing because it is safer in a crash and with all high-speed, highway driving, I wanted them in the safest position possible.

And the choking concern, my youngest had BAD reflux as a newborn. Horrible projectile vomit constantly. She always threw up in the carseat (like she did everywhere), but never choked on it. I had to wash that seat constantly, so believe me, it wasn't just spit up, but she was fine. A greater concern was putting her to sleep flat on her back, as she refluxed a ton in that position. So her ped actually recommended, get this, let her sleep in her carseat!! Same with a cousin, who goes to a different ped and had her son treated at CHOP in Philly. He also had terrible reflux and needed to be tube fed as he wouldn't take much by mouth because of the pain. For the first 5 months of his life she had to put him to bed in his carseat, in the crib, with tube feeds running for 8 hours overnight. And the reason for the carseat was to prevent choking.

Now, I suppose an older child who is eating food could choke, however, for me that isn't an issue as we very, very rarely have any food or drinks in the car. Even on the long haul trips to NJ, or when we drove across the country to move to AZ, we stopped to eat and stretch our legs, use the bathroom, etc. Particularly the bathroom as my 2yos did not hold it in very long! Heck, my 4.5yo still doesn't!

That said, while many of my friends did RF their kids past a year, many did not. And I did not say one word to them. We do have a friend who turned her kids FF before a year, using the excuse that they were large babies and met the weight requirement. She was the only one that we (as in both me and my husband) ever said anything to, and that was because it truly was unsafe and her kids were at risk. She did harness past most people, even got the Frontier for her kids since they were big and outgrew the Marathons by height, so the RF thing makes no sense to me.

 

[princessmom29]

I understand, and I can assure you that it's most likely she can rear-face without being too cramped for a good long time yet.

Here are just a few pics from the CPSafety album, all of MUCH older kids in one of the seats with the shortest bases...as you can see, they all do just fine with their legs.

http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/JanaeRA.aspx

http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/JennaM.aspx

http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/Quinn.aspx

And this is my kid. A friend stopped by with a new Radian, and for fun we tried out my ds in it. At the time he was about 4.5 and about 38lbs. In my car he was already riding forward-facing because my seats all had 35lbs rear-facing limits and he had reached that a while back. He was perfectly comfortable and happy as you can see...

I know that the studies are saying otherwise, but this is the image I just cannot get past. That does NOT look at all comfortable or safe to me. I cannot imagine my DD riding like that and not pitching a fit about it at 4. I KNOW she would be horribly uncomfortable, based on the way she has always chosen to sit. I just cannot see this being comfortable for a child. I guess it is safe if the studies are saying it, but it is just so counterintuitave to me that a kid with his knees in his face like that is not going to get hurt in a crash. I am glad he seems to have no issue with it!

 

[waltskids]

I had never considered that DD would have a greater chance of being left in the car if she were rear facing. She's so loud that it's impossible to forget she is there!
But on another note, I would never question a parent who chooses to face a child forward at the time the law says in their state. We just wish to rear face based on what works for us.

 

[MommyBell08]

My son is almost three around 28-39 inches and around 39lbs. We live in Michigan where its pretty cold, so we are rather bundled this time of year. Do you all take your childrens coats on and off when getting in and out of the carseats? He would fit so much better in his seat, and hasn't maxed the weight limit, its a struggle to get buckled with it on, but another step to take the coat off, plus its freezing. (Of coarse worth the struggle i'm not complaining) Just wondering what other Moms do.

 

[waltskids]

I understand, and I can assure you that it's most likely she can rear-face without being too cramped for a good long time yet.

Here are just a few pics from the CPSafety album, all of MUCH older kids in one of the seats with the shortest bases...as you can see, they all do just fine with their legs.

http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/JanaeRA.aspx

http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/JennaM.aspx

http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/Quinn.aspx

And this is my kid. A friend stopped by with a new Radian, and for fun we tried out my ds in it. At the time he was about 4.5 and about 38lbs. In my car he was already riding forward-facing because my seats all had 35lbs rear-facing limits and he had reached that a while back. He was perfectly comfortable and happy as you can see...

How tall was your child in that picture?

 

[MommyBell08]

My son is almost three around 28-39 inches and around 39lbs. We live in Michigan where its pretty cold, so we are rather bundled this time of year. Do you all take your childrens coats on and off when getting in and out of the carseats? He would fit so much better in his seat, and hasn't maxed the weight limit, its a struggle to get buckled with it on, but another step to take the coat off, plus its freezing. (Of coarse worth the struggle i'm not complaining) Just wondering what other Moms do.

nm heres my answer


http://babyproducts.about.com/od/carseats/a/carseatcoat.htm

 

[waltskids]

My son is almost three around 28-39 inches and around 39lbs. We live in Michigan where its pretty cold, so we are rather bundled this time of year. Do you all take your childrens coats on and off when getting in and out of the carseats? He would fit so much better in his seat, and hasn't maxed the weight limit, its a struggle to get buckled with it on, but another step to take the coat off, plus its freezing. (Of coarse worth the struggle i'm not complaining) Just wondering what other Moms do.

We do take coats on and off at the advice of our doctor. He mentioned when DS was a baby about large coats and the car seat straps not being tight enough with the coat on.Although I don't know if it makes a difference or not, it's something we have continued to do. Our kids both are less cramped when riding without the coats and have more room to move around.

 

[amylynne01]

I take coats off too. But I usually put my kids in fleece which does not compress under the harness, so it's 100% safe. They are fine for the minute walk from the door to the car or from the car to the store. If we'll be outside longer than the walk to/from the car, then they get heavier coats. Plus I know I get hot in the car, so they do too!