How do people my age afford to go to Disney so much?!

[LAS2AMS]

I think you all are missing my point. Yes, the middle class. But the upper middle class over the single mom working at Wall Mart. Two income families over single income families. Income statistics as a whole don't apply to this board because the most common income (modal income) in America is something like $8000 - and who here makes $8000. The average Disney guest is the wrong population for this board because the average Disney guest is either a day tripper or going for a once or twice in a lifetime trip - that isn't many people here. And because there are people pushing the average up because they make $500M, who here makes $500M? Does Disney have a problem attracting affluent customers - well, it depends on how you define affluent. The number of Deluxe hotel rooms booked says there are people who can spend $500 a night or more on a hotel room - or go over to the DVC board - there are lots of people who own over 1000 DVC points (that's about $100,000 in resale value). The number of signature restaurants booked says there are people who aren't eating at Peco's Bills. The number of $50 a person character breakfast sold says that there are people who disposable income. There may not be as many of them as Disney would like - because honestly, they'd rather have more of them. And accountants and teachers and software developers are the working class. But the lowest household income quartile tops out at $24,638 (2017) - 20% of Americans make less than that (and that's pretty close to the poverty line for a family of four). We can cut those people out of visiting Disney - and being regulars on this board - almost completely. Tickets alone aren't affordable except perhaps as a splurge, much less hotel rooms, travel - you'll certainly get some regional day guests - and of course theme park employees and college students in that range, and those with wealth whose income is low, but are living off their wealth. On the other hand, the top quartile starts at $104,000 - that isn't really affluent - no one has gold toilets on $104,000 a year, but that does permit a family to make regular Disney trips if that's their thing - unless they live in a really high COL area.

There is a huge middle ground between affluent and poor. Affluent people don't go to Disney as much as Disney would like. Poor people can't go at all.

Your assumption is that people who stay at Deluxe properties and eat at premium dining experiences are well off; I've been arguing the opposite. Trade publications estimate that the average nightly rate at many Deluxe WDW resorts is similar to or higher than at comparable properties (all brands) in Hawaii -- but the people staying in Hawaii have twice the income. Reality is, the core WDW guest is likely solid middle class and overindulging. Just reading this forum illustrates that -- there's oodles of posters who frequently post ridiculous dollar amounts as "necessary" to visit WDW "or it's just not magical" ... and the same posters seek advice in the Budget Board on reducing their debt or lowering expenses (hint: you don't need to spend several hundred dollars every year to take your family to the Hoop-De-Doo ... yes, your vacation will be magical without it).

My favorite poster was somebody who posted elaborate trip reports about enjoying the high life at WDW (always concierge level rooms at Deluxe properties, etc.) In 2006, he/she posted about seeking help with their bankruptcy filing... you know, because times were tough, not because their family took annual $20K trips to WDW!!! I've wrote it before and I'll write it again - people who are actually good at managing their fiances would never spend the sums of money on a WDW vacation that many posters promote as "average" or "necessary" to have a "magical" experience. People who are truly well off perceive magic to be their money making them more money (e.g. interest, dividends, gains, etc.), not some $10 corn dog or $4 soda.

 

[crisi]

I'm not saying that all of them are, but there is a habit on the budget board to assume that people who are spending more money than you are do it on credit. And while certainly it is the case that many of them are having their experiences on credit - certainly not all of them are - many of them can afford it. And to imply otherwise sounds like sour grapes.

Years ago there was a "how do you afford your Disney trips" on this board - and the number of people who basically said "I take money out of savings and go" was way higher than zero.

And I happen to have a few million dollars. And while I enjoy watching my money make money - last night we went out on a whim and I had a $62 steak and a $120 bottle of wine. When we do go to Disney, every dinner is eaten at a signature restaurant - it isn't worth eating a $10 corndog. So, from my own personal experience as someone with money who spends time with other people with money - your assumption that they'd never spend those sums is just plain wrong.

 

[erc]

So I am going in April for a week staying in 3 different resorts, GF, YC and BLT, it is 3 of us and costing $6,300 including $1.100 in flights. Paid for by restricted stock units that vested last year. Not many extras, just 2 dinner reservations.

We have only averaged a trip to WDW every 3-4 years because it is just too expensive. I have no doubt that some people are just adding it to their credit card debt, but I think the majority are spending money that they have saved or is a bonus from an actual bonus or stock vesting, or tax refunds.

I make a good salary, but it will probably be another 12 years or so before I am a 401K millionaire. Just too many life expenses preventing full 401K participation. Those of you already with millions in savings, cool. But that does make you among a select few and you should remember that when participating on these boards. Not everyone has the same life. I could have been a lot smarter with money over the years and been miles ahead of where we are, but it wasn't always just up to me. That is life. You get one chance for all this galactic star stuff to come together and form you, and before you know it you are just star stuff again. And hopefully in the middle there you have a little fun and a few people will remember you.

 

[kymom99]

So I am going in April for a week staying in 3 different resorts, GF, YC and BLT, it is 3 of us and costing $6,300 including $1.100 in flights. Paid for by restricted stock units that vested last year. Not many extras, just 2 dinner reservations.
Well said
We have only averaged a trip to WDW every 3-4 years because it is just too expensive. I have no doubt that some people are just adding it to their credit card debt, but I think the majority are spending money that they have saved or is a bonus from an actual bonus or stock vesting, or tax refunds.

I make a good salary, but it will probably be another 12 years or so before I am a 401K millionaire. Just too many life expenses preventing full 401K participation. Those of you already with millions in savings, cool. But that does make you among a select few and you should remember that when participating on these boards. Not everyone has the same life. I could have been a lot smarter with money over the years and been miles ahead of where we are, but it wasn't always just up to me. That is life. You get one chance for all this galactic star stuff to come together and form you, and before you know it you are just star stuff again. And hopefully in the middle there you have a little fun and a few people will remember you.

 

[LAS2AMS]

I'm not saying that all of them are, but there is a habit on the budget board to assume that people who are spending more money than you are do it on credit. And while certainly it is the case that many of them are having their experiences on credit - certainly not all of them are - many of them can afford it. And to imply otherwise sounds like sour grapes.

Years ago there was a "how do you afford your Disney trips" on this board - and the number of people who basically said "I take money out of savings and go" was way higher than zero.

And I happen to have a few million dollars. And while I enjoy watching my money make money - last night we went out on a whim and I had a $62 steak and a $120 bottle of wine. When we do go to Disney, every dinner is eaten at a signature restaurant - it isn't worth eating a $10 corndog. So, from my own personal experience as someone with money who spends time with other people with money - your assumption that they'd never spend those sums is just plain wrong.

No, there's a habit on the budget board for people to seek help with budgeting their trip to WDW (in whatever context), get their ego bruised, then proclaim they're millionaires in a weak attempt to embarrass others / make themselves feel better. People who are truly millionaires aren't going to worry about whether Ohana is $40 or $50 per adult, or seeking advice on whether they should be spending $15 on a quick service dinner or splurging at the Cyrstal Palace. People claiming to be millionaires participating in the budget board, OTOH...

The percentage of Americans who could to "take money out of their savings and go" on a WDW vacation is small -- nearly 80% of Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck, and over two-thirds don't have an emergency savings. Research shows that the core WDW traveler is solid middle class. I highly doubt the demographics of these forums largely differ ... especially given that people have the tendency to embellish their lives on the Internet (twenty years ago, I was an avid participant of FlyerTalk, but sadly that forum became nothing more than an outhouse of embellished egos and attitudes).

FWIW, my comments in my string of postings were referring to middle class, not the wealthy.

 

[QueenIsabella]

No, there's a habit on the budget board for people to seek help with budgeting their trip to WDW (in whatever context), get their ego bruised, then proclaim they're millionaires in a weak attempt to embarrass others / make themselves feel better. People who are truly millionaires aren't going to worry about whether Ohana is $40 or $50 per adult, or seeking advice on whether they should be spending $15 on a quick service dinner or splurging at the Cyrstal Palace. People claiming to be millionaires participating in the budget board, OTOH...

The percentage of Americans who could to "take money out of their savings and go" on a WDW vacation is small -- nearly 80% of Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck, and over two-thirds don't have an emergency savings. Research shows that the core WDW traveler is solid middle class. I highly doubt the demographics of these forums largely differ ... especially given that people have the tendency to embellish their lives on the Internet (twenty years ago, I was an avid participant of FlyerTalk, but sadly that forum became nothing more than an outhouse of embellished egos and attitudes).

FWIW, my comments in my string of postings were referring to middle class, not the wealthy.

Not true. Most self-made millionaires got that way by being frugal. By considering every purchase, and deciding if it's a "good spend". Even millionaires have travel budgets--they may be higher than the average Joe's but they still have them. They still have to decide if the 5-star hotel is worth the extra money to them, or if they'd rather use that money for an elegant dinner out.

If you're bored, check out the Bogleheads forum--there are a lot of people over there with a LOT of money. It's a financial site, so there are a lot of discussions about estate planning and investing and so forth, but you'd be amazed how many people drive crappy old cars and live very frugal lifestyles.

 

[LAS2AMS]

Not true. Most self-made millionaires got that way by being frugal. By considering every purchase, and deciding if it's a "good spend". Even millionaires have travel budgets--they may be higher than the average Joe's but they still have them. They still have to decide if the 5-star hotel is worth the extra money to them, or if they'd rather use that money for an elegant dinner out.

If you're bored, check out the Bogleheads forum--there are a lot of people over there with a LOT of money. It's a financial site, so there are a lot of discussions about estate planning and investing and so forth, but you'd be amazed how many people drive crappy old cars and live very frugal lifestyles.

As I discussed earlier, frugality is a common trait of people who are good at managing their money. It generally has nothing to do with becoming a self-made millionaire -- that requires you to have the right idea or make the right investment, as well as having the right timing and knowing the right people, especially in 2020. People who are truly millionaires aren't coming onto this forum, worrying about whether Ohana is $40 or $50, or seeking advice in whether they should dine at a fast casual restaurant or splurge on a premium dining experience. The truly wealthy would turn to budgeting when they're seeking a luxury purchase - a second home, an expensive car, etc. - not budgeting every penny being spent on a WDW vacation.

 

[seggerman]

As one of the self made millionaires - I stayed at All Stars in December and rented a car so one dinner was at Longhorn Steakhouse. Our meals were at Columbia Harbor House and the Pop Century food court. I brown bagged 2 lunches. My splurge was Park Hopper plus tickets, so we could have a rather chilly afternoon at a nearly deserted Typhoon Lagoon and a round of miniature golf. My only debt has been car loans, paid off way early and 20K student loan when I went from a mainframe programmer to a .NET developer 15 years ago after demand for COBOL shriveled up at the turn of the century.

 

[seggerman]

My investment advisor recently bitterly complained about another of his customer who dropped 10 grand he/she didn't have on a Disney vacation. So unlike unlike some of the money wise posters on this thread there are visitors to Disney who do so jeopardizing their financial health.

 

[QueenIsabella]

As I discussed earlier, frugality is a common trait of people who are good at managing their money. It generally has nothing to do with becoming a self-made millionaire -- that requires you to have the right idea or make the right investment, as well as having the right timing and knowing the right people, especially in 2020. People who are truly millionaires aren't coming onto this forum, worrying about whether Ohana is $40 or $50, or seeking advice in whether they should dine at a fast casual restaurant or splurge on a premium dining experience. The truly wealthy would turn to budgeting when they're seeking a luxury purchase - a second home, an expensive car, etc. - not budgeting every penny being spent on a WDW vacation.

You're actually showing your ignorance on how wealthy people act. It's not like on TV, where people sit around and crab about firing the maid and having to attend another charity event. Most people who are wealthy earned it themselves, by being frugal, and DO spend a lot of time considering if purchases, large and small, add enough value to their lives to be worthwhile. Also, most of them don't stick out in a crowd--they shop at Walmart, drive unremarkable vehicles, use coupons at the grocery store. I'm not surprised at all that millionaires who post on the DIS, post on the Budget Board. Money is a fun game to them, and they're winning.

 

[rg35]

See the "debt dumpers" thread. A large portion of America is spending money they don't actually have. The average amount of revolving CC debt in an American family is over $6,000. There are folks talking about needing to replace cars, do major home repairs, etc., who also discuss going on costly Disney vacations.

My wife and I are fortunate enough to be high earners with very good employer covered health insurance who can afford a good bit of discretionary spending after saving for retirement, funding our kids' 529 accounts, etc (although we also live in a high COL area). But I grew up in a single income household where my dad worked and my mom was stay-at-home, and we never went on vacations. My mom never bought anything that she couldn't pay off when the next bill came. It was a big event when my parents made a big ticket purchase like our first home computer (a Commodore 64 when I was in around 2nd grade). Fortunately, my mom's habits wore off on me and even though I am personally in a better position than my parents were at my age, I know not to go beyond limits.

But for all the talk about how the "economy is thriving," a deeper look really shows that it isn't. Most Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. Costs of healthcare, education, housing and basic needs have ballooned while wages have remained mostly stagnant. Most families are one medical emergency away from financial ruin. Many families report that even a $400 unforeseen expense would create hardship. The stock market has been doing really well, and the top of the toppiest are really doing great, but the fact is that a large, large percentage of Americans are struggling with just the day to day, but for many, this has little to do with being financially irresponsible. In many many ways, being poor in America is expensive. (There are plenty of articles and studies written about that subject, so I won't quote them all here).

 

[crisi]

As I discussed earlier, frugality is a common trait of people who are good at managing their money. It generally has nothing to do with becoming a self-made millionaire -- that requires you to have the right idea or make the right investment, as well as having the right timing and knowing the right people, especially in 2020. People who are truly millionaires aren't coming onto this forum, worrying about whether Ohana is $40 or $50, or seeking advice in whether they should dine at a fast casual restaurant or splurge on a premium dining experience. The truly wealthy would turn to budgeting when they're seeking a luxury purchase - a second home, an expensive car, etc. - not budgeting every penny being spent on a WDW vacation.

You really have very little idea of what you are talking about. Its fairly easy to become a millionaire without the right idea or the right investment as long as you have a little extra money and time.....almost every person on this board should be a millionaire by the time they are my age - otherwise, how are you going to retire. Its about saving early and continuing to save - not about the right idea or the right investment - but about investment and discipline. I've been coming to this forum since I was only a few hundred thousandaire (it is true that the first million is the hardest - because money makes money - and lack of money costs money). And I've been doing so because I want to help people understand that financial security isn't something that you just luck into (although luck helps). And I'm not the only millionaire on the budget board.

 

[QueenIsabella]

You really have very little idea of what you are talking about. Its fairly easy to become a millionaire without the right idea or the right investment as long as you have a little extra money and time.....almost every person on this board should be a millionaire by the time they are my age - otherwise, how are you going to retire. Its about saving early and continuing to save - not about the right idea or the right investment - but about investment and discipline. I've been coming to this forum since I was only a few hundred thousandaire (it is true that the first million is the hardest - because money makes money - and lack of money costs money). And I've been doing so because I want to help people understand that financial security isn't something that you just luck into (although luck helps). And I'm not the only millionaire on the budget board.

You're not fooling anyone, Crisi, we all know you're a big, fat faker. You must be, because you're on the Budget Board, right? I mean, a REAL millionaire isn't concerned with prudent use of their money, they're too busy watching the servants polish their yachts.

 

[ENJDisneyFan]

.almost every person on this board should be a millionaire by the time they are my age

I'm just curious and if you don't me asking...how old are you?

 

[Bethany loveless]

Credit card points! Come join us on the credit card thread! I've been to either WDW or DL every year since 2015, and went to both DL and WDW last year. My husband and I are paying for our whole family (parents and brother) to go to Disney for a week this year and almost the entire cost of the trip will be paid for with credit card points.

What is the best card for points to be used for Disney?

 

[Marionnette]

What is the best card for points to be used for Disney?

A lot will depend on you where you spend the money to earn those points and how you intend to use the points. There’s no perfect CC for everyone.

 

[tink89]

No, there's a habit on the budget board for people to seek help with budgeting their trip to WDW (in whatever context), get their ego bruised, then proclaim they're millionaires in a weak attempt to embarrass others / make themselves feel better. People who are truly millionaires aren't going to worry about whether Ohana is $40 or $50 per adult, or seeking advice on whether they should be spending $15 on a quick service dinner or splurging at the Cyrstal Palace. People claiming to be millionaires participating in the budget board, OTOH...

The percentage of Americans who could to "take money out of their savings and go" on a WDW vacation is small -- nearly 80% of Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck, and over two-thirds don't have an emergency savings. Research shows that the core WDW traveler is solid middle class. I highly doubt the demographics of these forums largely differ ... especially given that people have the tendency to embellish their lives on the Internet (twenty years ago, I was an avid participant of FlyerTalk, but sadly that forum became nothing more than an outhouse of embellished egos and attitudes).

FWIW, my comments in my string of postings were referring to middle class, not the wealthy.

Yes there are people on here who seek ideas in budgeting. I myself use the budgeting thread to get info on credit card bonus and Disney gift card deals. Not because i can't afford a Disney trip but because i want to do a Disney trip with spending less. I have used many of the tips here to pay for about 70% of the cost of all my trips. Why pay more out of pocket when u don't have to.
I also see many people on the budget board planning $5k-$10k trips all while trying to pay down a lot of debt. I just don't understand that.

My experience with wealthy people i know- one brings coupons to any place that allows, one stays at a Harbor motel most time at DL instead of onsite, another has helped organize fundraisers for our sports teams so that we didn't have to pay so much for tournaments and there are many other frugal things they do on the daily. Many people who are millionaires just spend mindlessly. Many others don't and do actually care about prices or how much they are paying.

You really have very little idea of what you are talking about. Its fairly easy to become a millionaire without the right idea or the right investment as long as you have a little extra money and time.....almost every person on this board should be a millionaire by the time they are my age - otherwise, how are you going to retire. Its about saving early and continuing to save - not about the right idea or the right investment - but about investment and discipline. I've been coming to this forum since I was only a few hundred thousandaire (it is true that the first million is the hardest - because money makes money - and lack of money costs money). And I've been doing so because I want to help people understand that financial security isn't something that you just luck into (although luck helps). And I'm not the only millionaire on the budget board.

Age? I am definitely not a millionaire or thousandaire, but live with in our means and save as much as we can and don't have any credit card debt all while trying to enjoy life. I am always looking for ways to maximize our money in a way that best suits us.

 

[Hey Blinkin]

78% of people are paycheck to paycheck but experience has taught me that most of those say they pay off their CC's every month and live within their means. The amount of terrible advice littered through this thread is mind-blowing. It is no wonder so many people have nothing saved for retirement. Yikes!

 

[StacyStrong]

Based on this thread, probably by minding their own business and not caring so much what someome much better off than them thinks about their spending habits.

 

[rkstocke5609]

Let’s see, lodging per year $1600 (DVC dues, so creeps up) AP’s for 3, $3,000 (ouch!) (I try to get 2 or 3 trips out of these. Last time I bought AP’s I got 18 days out of them but I only thought they cost about $2000 so more price creep). Dining costs, I budget about $100 day. So, if I figure I will get two 7 day trips, one at Christmas and one at Spring break that would be $6000. Now, let’s add $500 more for splurge dining / shopping to total $6500. So, that equates to $465 per day to vacation in the happiest place on earth for the three of us. Is that a lot? I suppose, but it’s 5.5% of annual gross income. Some people golf obsessively, some people have gliders, some choose to be house poor, some have expensive cars, some have wardrobes with thousands of dollars in them, some vacation homes, some an insane nightclub habit. People choose to spend money where they get the most entertainment. To each their own. I have coworkers that say to me “Disney again” and I just say that it’s what we enjoy. I don’t criticize their every weekend casino adventures. People find ways to afford what’s important to them. Go out there and get yours! (Whatever it is that floats your boat!)