Hey Pete, Tell Us How You Really Feel

[SamIAm21]

about the Bahamas! I have to say I agree with each and every point. This could apply to several islands in the Caribbean and RCL's private island, Labadee. Don't go into the "island merchants hut"

 

[fakereadhed]

I can understand not wanting to see poverty because it's upsetting, but what is the Bahama lady supposed to do with her baby? Yes it's on a blanket in a cardboard box, but what should she use? I guess she could put it in her Baby Bjorn baby carrier or her Bugaboo stroller. Honestly, I almost turned my Ipod off.

 

[Boardwalker]

I can understand not wanting to see poverty because it's upsetting, but what is the Bahama lady supposed to do with her baby? Yes it's on a blanket in a cardboard box, but what should she use? I guess she could put it in her Baby Bjorn baby carrier or her Bugaboo stroller.

Wow. Good point. We avoid the Carribean because the poverty deeply upsets my husband. But people who live there really live off the tourist dollar... kind of a Catch 22.

I think Pete speaks for a lot of people, and I was enjoying his rant, agreeing with everything he was saying. But I really like your point. The Carribean is not fantasy land. You can only candy coat so much of the reality of life in other countries.

Perhaps we should be more upset with the reality of the poverty there and less upset with how it will affect our idea of the perfect vacation? Thanks for the reality check.

 

[SamIAm21]

Wow. Good point. We avoid the Carribean because the poverty deeply upsets my husband. But people who live there really live off the tourist dollar... kind of a Catch 22.

I think Pete speaks for a lot of people, and I was enjoying his rant, agreeing with everything he was saying. But I really like your point. The Carribean is not fantasy land. You can only candy coat so much of the reality of life in other countries.

Perhaps we should be more upset with the reality of the poverty there and less upset with how it will affect our idea of the perfect vacation? Thanks for the reality check.

Donating to your favorite Bahamian charity is a way to help out. However, my thought is that if the Bahamian government wants more tourists to support its economy, maybe they need to be a little more vigilant about how the tourists are treated when they arrive on their shores.

 

[Linus Van Pelt]

I'm going to agree with fakeredhead on this. Pete Werner came across as nothing so much as the Ugly American, a crass, empty-headed blowhard (of course, I say that with love, Pete ). I usually agree with virtually everything the man says, and I love his slightly jaded view of things, but not this time. SO was listening along with me and commented, "Just when you think there's hope for us..." And then rolled his eyes.

 

[minicoopercraig]

But the point that Pete was making, however you may look at it, was that while on vacation, you don't want to be reminded of the poverty that's in the world.
Take for instance, Key West. I was there only once, but the whole time I was there, I didn't see one homeless person, anyone carrying their baby with them while they "hocked" cheap t-shirts, or even accosted by anyone to be dragged into their shops. It's a much nicer island, albeit a smaller one, than the Grand Bahama.
I also agree that they should not be protesting certain groups to prevent them from coming to their country, or island, just because they don't agree with their way of life. Right there they were cutting their own wrists because the gay tourist dollar has become the new hot market in tourism. And being gay, I was seriously angry and shocked when I heard what the people were shouting at Rosie O'Donnell's children as they were getting off the boat. Kids that were 5, 6 and maybe even younger seeing signs out saying "You're going to H*ll!" and turning around and asking why these people didn't like their mommy or daddy. How hard it must have been to calm their fears! But once they've made their stand on the "gay issue" they've drawn the line in the sand. Now they've cut off the gay dollar, anyone who's sympathetic toward their issue, anyone who's in their family, and even quite possibly major travel agencies who have special packages for gay and lesbian travel. To finish, being gay, I WILL NEVER GO TO THE BAHAMAS! I would much rather go to Key West, at least there, I can see the Hemingway house, have a nice time at the local bars, and not have to worry that I'm going to be protested, or pulled into a shop to buy some cheap merchandise I don't want.

Sorry. I was ranting. Anyone want my soapbox?!

 

[SamIAm21]

But the point that Pete was making, however you may look at it, was that while on vacation, you don't want to be reminded of the poverty that's in the world.
Take for instance, Key West. I was there only once, but the whole time I was there, I didn't see one homeless person, anyone carrying their baby with them while they "hocked" cheap t-shirts, or even accosted by anyone to be dragged into their shops. It's a much nicer island, albeit a smaller one, than the Grand Bahama.
I also agree that they should not be protesting certain groups to prevent them from coming to their country, or island, just because they don't agree with their way of life. Right there they were cutting their own wrists because the gay tourist dollar has become the new hot market in tourism. And being gay, I was seriously angry and shocked when I heard what the people were shouting at Rosie O'Donnell's children as they were getting off the boat. Kids that were 5, 6 and maybe even younger seeing signs out saying "You're going to H*ll!" and turning around and asking why these people didn't like their mommy or daddy. How hard it must have been to calm their fears! But once they've made their stand on the "gay issue" they've drawn the line in the sand. Now they've cut off the gay dollar, anyone who's sympathetic toward their issue, anyone who's in their family, and even quite possibly major travel agencies who have special packages for gay and lesbian travel. To finish, being gay, I WILL NEVER GO TO THE BAHAMAS! I would much rather go to Key West, at least there, I can see the Hemingway house, have a nice time at the local bars, and not have to worry that I'm going to be protested, or pulled into a shop to buy some cheap merchandise I don't want.

Sorry. I was ranting. Anyone want my soapbox?!

Before you get too upset at the people of the Bahamas, it was actually BERMUDA that turned away Rosie's cruise, not the Bahamas. The Bahamian tourist minister doesn't understand why Disney won't sail into Freeport and it's because of the way the people there treat you. I don't like being touched or accosted, or even the dreaded psssttt... which means they are trying to sell you drugs. Talk about scary! We can't overcome their poverty as we have our own problems in the US, but if you feel for those people and really want to help, I'm sure you could Google Bahamian charities and find a whole list of ways to help out.

 

[minicoopercraig]

*hiding in the corner and whispers* I still won't go to the Bahamas. Sorry for the incorrect rant. I'll behave now.

 

[Linus Van Pelt]

One thought I had while listening to Pete's rant was that he probably hates visiting NYC, or any other large city. I mean, going on a vacation to the Bahamas, New York, London, wherever else, is not like vacationing at WDW. These are real places. And real places have nice aspects and not-so-nice aspects. My thought is, if seeing reality turns you off, if realizing that, no, not everyone in the world lives like the middle class does here in the states, and that really bothers you, then you should probably vacation excusively at the Disney parks, and places like them.

 

[I<3EvilQueen]

*hiding in the corner and whispers* I still won't go to the Bahamas. Sorry for the incorrect rant. I'll behave now.

Sure you will *wink*

 

[GinnyFavers]

Years ago, on another forum, a guy was going on and on about how do you people go to Disney over and over, it's not real, rocks are fake, everything's fake, you're a bunch of losers, go some place real...

Next post was, I'm an emergency room doctor in an inner city hospital. I get enough real at work, I don't want it on vacation.

 

[fakereadhed]

Perhaps we should be more upset with the reality of the poverty there and less upset with how it will affect our idea of the perfect vacation?

To clarify, I totally understand people not wanting to see it on vacation. I just didn't understand being upset with the people there that are just trying to scrape by and living in substandard conditions.

 

[SamIAm21]

To clarify, I totally understand people not wanting to see it on vacation. I just didn't understand being upset with the people there that are just trying to scrape by and living in substandard conditions.

I don't think anyone gets upset with them trying to earn a living, but when they paw at you, grab you, hound you and very often intimidate you, (which is fairly easy to do with Americans who aren't used to that type of situation), it becomes a problem. If this type of behavior was discouraged by the tourism board, I think a lot of cruisers would be far more comfortable getting off in these ports, which would do nothing but ultimately help the people in the long run. So many people say we should understand them and their culture, but if if they want to do business with us, shouldn't they try to understand how we live as well and understand that under most circumstances, we don't shop like that.

When we shop, we browse for as long as we want with usually one or two sales people approaching us asking if we need help. And, a "no just looking" or "yes, I'm looking for" is usually the reply which is met with the appropriate response. But to be constantly hounded makes the experience less than comfortable. I may only be speaking for myself here, but I cannot tolerate that type of environment as it scares me.

 

[fakereadhed]

I don't think anyone gets upset with them trying to earn a living, but when they paw at you, grab you, hound you and very often intimidate you, (which is fairly easy to do with Americans who aren't used to that type of situation), it becomes a problem. If this type of behavior was discouraged by the tourism board, I think a lot of cruisers would be far more comfortable getting off in these ports, which would do nothing but ultimately help the people in the long run. So many people say we should understand them and their culture, but if if they want to do business with us, shouldn't they try to understand how we live as well and understand that under most circumstances, we don't shop like that.

I guess I am so many people because when I travel I try to prepare myself ahead of time for the culture. I have seen travel groups from Asia in American stores and didn't see any of the salespeople changing their sales strategies. This is why Americans have a bad reputation. If you don't like shopping that way, stay on the ship and enjoy your day there. American tourists think the world revolves around them and it doesn't.

 

[SamIAm21]

I guess I am so many people because when I travel I try to prepare myself ahead of time for the culture. I have seen travel groups from Asia in American stores and didn't see any of the salespeople changing their sales strategies. This is why Americans have a bad reputation. If you don't like shopping that way, stay on the ship and enjoy your day there. American tourists think the world revolves around them and it doesn't.

Well, all I'm actually asking for is a mutual understanding/respect. I'm fully aware of the fact that I am in a foreign country with foreign customs, but given that we seem to be their major source of income (speaking of Bahamas only), it would be nice if they could respect the fact that we don't have such aggressive selling tactics in the US. Just a thought...

 

[DisneyKevin]

I guess I am so many people because when I travel I try to prepare myself ahead of time for the culture. I have seen travel groups from Asia in American stores and didn't see any of the salespeople changing their sales strategies. This is why Americans have a bad reputation. If you don't like shopping that way, stay on the ship and enjoy your day there. American tourists think the world revolves around them and it doesn't.

I think we are mistaking commerce and culture.

If you have visted Las Vegas in the last couple of years, you can see that American businesses are changing the way things are done. Casinos understand that there are a large number of tourists from Asia and have adjusted the gaming offered, the restaurant choices and the business model to accommodate these groups. This is smart business.

Let's look at the company we love. The Disney company has changed their business practices in their theme parks outside of the US to accommodate the needs and customs of their local clientele. If they didnt, they wouldnt survive.

Please understand that we are not talking about tourists walking in to a local store and expecting to be treated any differently than any local. We are talking about merchants with a predominantly American clientele with a very short window of opportunity. I am certain that their goal is to sell as much product as possible so having people stay on the ship does them no good what so ever.

I dont believe anyone is asking anyone to change their culture, but as a business person looking to move as much stuff as possible...knowing your clientele makes for more business and more profits.

 

[Boardwalker]

I dont believe anyone is asking anyone to change their culture, but as a business person looking to move as much stuff as possible...knowing your clientele makes for more business and more profits.

Then I guess that opening a discussion between the Bahamian tourist board and the American Cruiselines is probably a really good thing that will lead to benefits all around... as long as the tourist dollars made in the Bahamas stay in the Bahamas and end up narrowing the gap between the islanders and the visitors.

But I am not convinced that culture and commerce are easily seperated. I guess as the global economy pervades, culture and commerce will have to become less entwined, but it is culture that will lose out.

I am thinking of little things I experienced traveling like the afternoon store closings in Spain and the haggling for price in Moracco that is authentic to life in those places. I travel to see different cultures, and I hope that the world doesn't change to accommodate the American traveler.

 

[minicoopercraig]

I don't think the world revolves around me. It's more of an elliptical orbit.
Seriously, I tend to agree that tourists do think they're the top of the food chain in most cases, when I'm on vacation though, I treat the people I come in contact with like I would if I were in my own town, with respect, plenty of "Thank You"'s and outragous tips. LOL. I just think that rom the descriptions that I've been given of the situations cruises put their passangers in, I would much rather just skip over those places that are more "aggressive" for your dollar than the places, such as Disney World that know you're there to spend money and don't care on what.

Who gave me back my soapbox?!

 

[fakereadhed]

I think we are mistaking commerce and culture.

If you have visted Las Vegas in the last couple of years, you can see that American businesses are changing the way things are done. Casinos understand that there are a large number of tourists from Asia and have adjusted the gaming offered, the restaurant choices and the business model to accommodate these groups. This is smart business.

I totally agree that it makes good business sense. But we are talking big gaming vs. straw baskets here.

Besides our society is a melting pot and bends over backward to accomodate other cultures so that example is also blending culture with commerce, don't you think?

 

[DisneyKevin]

I pretty much agree with what everyone is saying.

I just dont know how much actual culture you are experiencing in a tourist area.

I would not want anyone to think that Orlando culture (insert own joke here) is anything like what you'd experience on highway 192, I Drive or Downtown Disney. You have not experienced the real Orlando if thats all you see.

On one of our trips to St Thomas I asked a woman in a shop where she would have lunch. She proceeded to tell me about all of the places along the waterfront. I explained that I had been eatong with the same folks all week and was looking for a more "true" experience. She sent us to this little cafe about 6 blocks away from the waterfront and the folks inside were SHOCKED to see two big guys, obviously tourists wander in. I believe we had a much better idea of what a St Thomas restaurant really is than anything we could have found in the "tourist" area.

Also...we spent some time in Italy last year and we went to all of the tourist spots. The best times, the best experiences, the best food was when we wandered out of the tourist areas and tried to see what life was really like.

I guess my point is that I dont believe that the "tourist area" anywhere is truly the culture of the place you are visiting. It's a watered down, hyped up, "for sale", pseudo version and I think if you want the real thing...you need to dig a bit deeper.

If this is not true than I assume that all Bahamanian women are chasing strangers down the street begging them to let her braid their hair and I dont believe thats true either.

Kevin