Help - Was Scammed!

[c0reyann]

I was told today that he's also renting out on Redweek and VRBO as well. SIGH.

 

[Lovethemouse82]

I can only speak for myself but I am new to this and he convinced me that it was standard practice to wait for a valid # until he was paid in full and made the name switch in the reservation. His references also said that it was the way they did it and all worked out fine (until he canceled those reservations).

Doesn’t work like that

 

[Lovethemouse82]

This is exactly why you should use only legitimate brokers or someone you personally know because this world has many shady people and it’s a shame to just take hard earn money from people just for yourself why would anyone would do this evil thing is so heartbreaking. We should help our fellow man in this day in age not hurt them. So sorry for everyone who was affected by this situation. Have a Blessed day

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

I was told today that he's also renting out on Redweek and VRBO as well. SIGH.

I don't know about Redweek, but VRBO has a renter protection guarantee, so at least the renters using VRBO won't be out anything.

 

[Mamabun]

I don't know about Redweek, but VRBO has a renter protection guarantee, so at least the renters using VRBO won't be out anything.

Just fyi for anyone reading this, VRBO’s protection is very limited. For example, if someone other than the host gets your money and you paid through VRBO, they will take care of it. If the host cancels on you, they will tell them to pay you back, but if they refuse, VRBO actually does very little, and they will likely allow them to continue renting to other folks. They will also help you rebook, but you have to pay again and at the higher last minute rates - they don’t rebook you for free or anything.

I’ve used VRBO many times, and appreciate the small amount of screening and protection they offer (it’s better than doing it all on my own), but I’m very realistic about the possibility of something not going perfectly.

 

[DieHardJoe]

We have rented many times through VRBO and have always done well. A couple times the renter has offered to us that if we come back again we should contact them directly to save the VRBO fee. We probably would still go through VRBO, simply to have some level of protection.

 

[Tess]

They get them back but they go into holding which restricts them. But It is still very possible to use them to get a reservation for another trip.

The point was that any owner who wants to scam will scam. Even if the renter does it all correct and has a valid reservation and doesn’t pay until it is linked, the owner can still cancel it, and the renter won’t know until they show up and have nothing booked and their money goes.

Renting is always a risk. There is nothing a renter can do ahead of time to guarantee things 100%.

IF the owner did cancel the reservation at some point, wouldn't it disappear in MDE if it was in the renter's name? Further, if your park reservations were through the "resort" bucket, (or even if you were AP, some would be dropped because of the limit on number of days) wouldn't they likewise be removed if the reservation is cancelled? Just curious.

 

[Sandisw]

IF the owner did cancel the reservation at some point, wouldn't it disappear in MDE if it was in the renter's name? Further, if your park reservations were through the "resort" bucket, (or even if you were AP, some would be dropped because of the limit on number of days) wouldn't they likewise be removed if the reservation is cancelled? Just curious.

The reservation would disappear from MDE so a renter might notice something was up if the owner did it ahead of time.

Once the renter pays, and links it, it still doesn't belong to them. The owner can still cancel it. While doing all of that ahead of time is a good thing, and can help, as I said, if you get an owner who wants to scam someone, nothing a renter does can prevent it. Until you get to the resort on check in day, the owner owns it and controls it. Scams are rare but they do happen and this owner is an example.

Even if the OP had refused to pay until they had a valid reservation number that linked to MDE, this owner could have provided them one, and once received the funds, canceled it out from under them. ,

I have not ever had my park reservations removed when I canceled a room., so no, I don't think you would see those go away if the room is gone. Also, I don't think they have the three buckets any longer...just the two...AP's and other ticket holders....

 

[crisi]

Given how op has described how this scam has gone down so far I’m having a bit of a tough time seeing how the scammer couldn’t have pulled this off using the dvc rental board. I mean he had actual dvc points and did a few real reservations first to build up references. Then it sounds like he used some refundable cash bookings to make it look like he made points rentals in his customers names. (Can you even tell the difference between a cash reservation and a points reservation made by another person in your name if you import the reservation into MDE?), so he was willing to tie up his own money in this scam. Then he gave out his earlier people as actual bona fide references. Assuming this is the way it went down, sophisticated users reading these boards could have been scammed as well. Yes the fake reservation numbers and/or doctored reservation emails wouldn’t have worked, but if he was giving out real reservation numbers and had bona fide references using his real and verifiable name and phone number, couldn’t he have pulled this off on this rental forum as well? Yes I get he would have had to pay the gold member fee but that still would have been nominal versus his take.

If scammers want to scam, it isn't hard. And it isn't even hard to make it much more difficult to trace back to a real human being. From the descriptions of this guy, its sort of amazing he is using his real name for this scam, since he seems to be a professional con artist.

The reservation would disappear from MDE so a renter might notice something was up if the owner did it ahead of time.

Once the renter pays, and links it, it still doesn't belong to them. The owner can still cancel it. While doing all of that ahead of time is a good thing, and can help, as I said, if you get an owner who wants to scam someone, nothing a renter does can prevent it. Until you get to the resort on check in day, the owner owns it and controls it. Scams are rare but they do happen and this owner is an example.

Even if the OP had refused to pay until they had a valid reservation number that linked to MDE, this owner could have provided them one, and once received the funds, canceled it out from under them. ,

I have not ever had my park reservations removed when I canceled a room., so no, I don't think you would see those go away if the room is gone. Also, I don't think they have the three buckets any longer...just the two...AP's and other ticket holders....

Easy peasy. Make a reservation for someone else. The morning they are set to arrive call and change the names back to yourself. Take a vacation. Your "marks" will be on a plane and probably not checking MDE when the reservation disappears - and even if it does, they can't do a darn thing about it, except report you to the police. Not something that works on the scale of this con artist, but there are a gazillon ways to scam DVC rentals. And yes, I do agree that the moderation and rules of this board - or using a broker - are two ways to make scamming less likely and/or less impactful if it happens.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Once the renter pays, and links it, it still doesn't belong to them. The owner can still cancel it. While doing all of that ahead of time is a good thing, and can help, as I said, if you get an owner who wants to scam someone, nothing a renter does can prevent it. Until you get to the resort on check in day, the owner owns it and controls it. Scams are rare but they do happen and this owner is an example.

Even if the OP had refused to pay until they had a valid reservation number that linked to MDE, this owner could have provided them one, and once received the funds, canceled it out from under them. ,

Which is why I am saying not to blame the victim. You can do everything right and still be scammed.

 

[LPnerd]

Really sorry this has happened to you. Other than reporting him to law enforcement and Facebook admin, I'm not sure what else can be done.

How did you pay him? If it was via credit card or paypal, you could try disputing the charge.

Thank you for sharing your experience with us. Repots like these are why we so diligently enforce the DIS Rent/Transfer Board rules. Makes it much more difficult for the scammers to prosper, especially if the prospective renters use due diligence in checking out the owners. I never recommend Facebook to anyone interested in either side of a DVC transaction.

I never recommend Facebook or Craig's list to anyone, for anything. let alone a huge chunk of money. How in the world did they even get away with posting it? Did someone tell you about it? Did you not know about this board until after the fact? Also have you called DVC direct to report this?

 

[LPnerd]

Which is why I am saying not to blame the victim. You can do everything right and still be scammed.

buying a vacation from a stranger off Facebook is everything right?

 

[Sandisw]

I never recommend Facebook or Craig's list to anyone, for anything. let alone a huge chunk of money. How in the world did they even get away with posting it? Did someone tell you about it? Did you not know about this board until after the fact? Also have you called DVC direct to report this?

DVC won't get involved in any of it, unless it is law enforcement contacting them for information. Renting is a private transaction that owners are expressly allowed and I don't think it is DVC's place to get involved in it. In this case, it is an obvious scam, but can you imagine if they did take complaints from renters? It could become a mess. I like that DVC will only talk to owners.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

buying a vacation from a stranger off Facebook is everything right?

The same thing could have happened if the renter had purchased from this board.

 

[CarolMN]

The same thing could have happened if the renter had purchased from this board.

Yes, that's absolutely true!

But it is much less likely. That's especially true if the owner has a solid posting history. Scammers don't like our rules, they don't want to "waste" time developing a posting history, they don't generally want to pay for a plan, and there are lots of other places where it is easier (and free) to practice their con.

We don't need more than ten fingers to count the number of issues we've had on our R/T Board, and a few of those were misunderstandings that were satisfactorily resolved. (Contracts go a long way to make sure both sides are on the same page). At least one was a lack of due diligence on the part of the renter.

Renting requires trust on both sides of the transaction. Trust, but verify, as much as you can.

No one is blaming the OP. We appreciate the reminder that bad things can happen to good people through no fault of their own, and sadly, there is not always a happy ending.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Yes, that's absolutely true!

But it is much less likely. That's especially true if the owner has a solid posting history. Scammers don't like our rules, they don't want to "waste" time developing a posting history, and there are lots of other places where it is easier to practice their con.

We don't need more than ten fingers to count the number of issues we've had on our R/T Board, and a few of those were misunderstandings that were satisfactorily resolved. (Contracts go a long way to make sure both sides are on the same page). At least one was a lack of due diligence on the part of the renter.

Renting require trust on both sides of the transaction. Trust, but verify, as much as you can.

No one is blaming the OP. We appreciate the reminder that bad things can happen to good people through no fault of their own, and there is not always a happy ending..

You are right, and I didn't mean to imply it would be as easy on this board. It wouldn't.... Like you say, the scammer would have had to spend longer building up a good history and would have only gotten 1 or 2 shots before being removed.

But the point being that pretty much anywhere, under the current system, the owner can cancel the reservation 1-2 days before and there is no system that protects the buyer 100% from that happening short of an escrow that keeps the money until the rental begins.

 

[c0reyann]

The reservation would disappear from MDE so a renter might notice something was up if the owner did it ahead of time.

Once the renter pays, and links it, it still doesn't belong to them. The owner can still cancel it. While doing all of that ahead of time is a good thing, and can help, as I said, if you get an owner who wants to scam someone, nothing a renter does can prevent it. Until you get to the resort on check in day, the owner owns it and controls it. Scams are rare but they do happen and this owner is an example.

Even if the OP had refused to pay until they had a valid reservation number that linked to MDE, this owner could have provided them one, and once received the funds, canceled it out from under them. ,

I have not ever had my park reservations removed when I canceled a room., so no, I don't think you would see those go away if the room is gone. Also, I don't think they have the three buckets any longer...just the two...AP's and other ticket holders....

And for many of the now 22 victims he did exactly that. He made a valid reservation (almost always a cash stay w a one night deposit) and once linked and paid he canceled the reservation. When they called they found out that it was a cash reservation, not DVC and that it was canceled by him.

 

[ZellyB]

I used to rent things through VRBO with some regularity. I also rented DVC points a couple of times through brokers. I always had good experiences. Increasingly though I've read more and more about these types of scams. And, these are often sophisticated scams that can fool even the most savvy renters. I've basically decided for myself that the savings I can achieve through these types of rental agreements isn't worth the risk. I know that the vast majority do go through without problems, but I'm just at the point where I'd rather pay more for a regular hotel room (with the advantages of housekeeping, maybe continental breakfast etc - unless it's a Disney hotel of course lol) than risk showing up for a very expensive vacation only to find I have nowhere to rest my head.

OP, I'm so very sorry that this happened to you. It sounds as though this individual is pretty adept at scamming people and, at least for me, I would have considered what you did to be reasonable due diligence. I'm glad you were able to get other reservations and despite the added cost and outrage at being scammed, I hope you have a wonderful vacation.

 

[DaviVascaino]

Doesn’t work like that

what you mean? I just booked a room at Boardwalk villa, renting DVC points from a member of this forum and I only sent the payment once I got confirmation number and linked to my disney account. if I don't pay, the seller can just cancel the booking. Paying before you even get a confirmation number, without knowing the person, is dangerous

 

[robinb]

buying a vacation from a stranger off Facebook is everything right?

Meh. I sell reservations on Facebook and I don’t scam anyone.