Has the mergers in the airlines lead to the mess we have?

[artesian]

I strongly believe that due to all the consolidation between airlines has lead to much higher pricing we are dealing with today. The one that affected me the most was Continental/United being my home airport was EWR. Flight cost post merge crept up quickly and now is absurd in my opinion. The other thing that suffered greatly is customer service. While as a Continental fanboy for years, I began to notice perks and attitude change not far after day zero. It stinks to think that nothing is going to change unless people fly less or the gov comes in to regulate them in some capacity. The only reason I mention regulation is the current state of seat pitch/size as well as fees for luggage. Similar to hotel resort fees carriers bleeding me dry and you wonder why when people fly once someone enters a plane they are annoyed. The CEO's know the experience is just plain miserable.
United CEO blasted for claiming passengers are 'pissed at the world' by the time they get to plane
Off base or spot on?
PS: We stopped flying four years ago and does the 16 hour car suck yes but the 1k difference now goes a long way to doing more in WDW.

 

[Darcy03231]

I don't think the prices in my area have gone up that much in the last 10 years. I'm flying into Tampa from Boston for a cruise and got $69/each way on JetBlue. I routinely pay $225-$250 round trip to fly to Orlando, which is about what I was paying 10 years ago. Last year I flew to Costa Rica for $400/pp round trip. I have noticed that Southwest no longer has the least expensive flights. Lately it's been Delta and JetBlue.

 

[AngiTN]

Complete opposite here.
As a small airport customer our prices have dropped drastically.
Used to it was almost cost prohibitive to fly out of this airport
Now, for some destinations, it's cheaper than driving to an International airport and for others as close to the cost of the bigger airport it doesn't make it worth it to drive.
And no, the bigger airports haven't gone up that much, our airport has dropped that much. If the prices were what they used to be, I wouldn't be flying period.

Now, CS, yeah, that's pretty poor. I think the airlines know that with their prices so low, people are going to fly, no matter how bad it gets. Driving is always worse. So they have you over a barrel. So to speak.

 

[DebbieB]

I think it has caused higher prices, less competition. Here in Pittsburgh, USAir was our main airline for years, then they dropped the hub. Southwest came in with low prices, it was great! I remember $58 each way. Then US dropped the non-stop Orlando route and then SW prices started going up. Spirit sometimes has low prices but only one flight a day. Frontier and Allegiant are also available but not flying everyday, which makes me nervous.

I made the mistake of booking December 1 to 7, not thinking that December 1 is the Sunday after Thanksgiving and a big travel day. SW is $360 one way. Spirit is the same, not even including their fees!

 

[jec6613]

On average (big numbers here) airline prices have gone down for most consumers almost every year. There are currently 4 big US domestic carriers that compete heavily with cross continent networks: AA, DL, UA, and WN. The consolidation allowed some of this to occur, but really the reason it had to happen was deregulation: the 5 legacy airlines needed to become what they were to survive while maintaining their old CAB and EAS routes, using the economies of scale to compete against the influx of LCCs once the CAB wasn't controlling pricing.

But, as always, this depends heavily on your local airport and how well it's served and how competitive the market is. LCCs have almost zero presence in NYC, for instance, because AA, UA, and DL are competitive against each other for that market. As the number of airline passengers has gone up year on year, aircraft have gotten more efficient, and load factors higher through better management, it's driven prices down for more consumers than it's driven up.

HA and AS are the exceptions to this rule, serving niche markets outside of the continental US thoroughly, but even then just the threat of one of the big 3 keeps their prices in check (WN doesn't factor in really in HI and AK).

 

[sponica]

All I know is that it "feels" more expensive to fly out of my little airport.

I know some of that is inflation, but I used to be able to fly nonstop roundtrip on SW to MCO for less than 200 dollars. Now that same itinerary costs 330, if I'm lucky. There used to be 5(ish) daily departures and we're lucky to get 2 now....I know it has more to do with SW getting gates at Logan than anything else. But I feel like those gates became available due to other consolidations.

And I hate getting to Logan, because what should only take 45 minutes takes anywhere from an hour to 2.5 hours depending on traffic/construction/accidents/weather/the four horsemen of the apocalypse

 

[SteveH]

We are in a relatively small area with a regional airport. In the 15 years here we've seeing some positive changes. We finally have more competition as far as getting flights out of here to major hubs. The problem we still face is the largest employer is a large super fund clean up site, aka Government contract money. Because of that prices seem to have remained high, but in the past couple of years we're seeing some better deals. Getting Southwest here would be a big deal since it would disrupt the model that is in place here with Delta, United and Alaska.

 

[artesian]

I was curious thinking that possibly smaller airports would be less affected. UA's absolute stranglehold on EWR is what is killing me mostly. Could I fly JFK/LGA yes but add in tolls and cost to park usually almost a wash. I've had limited success going from ACY, BDL and PHL in the past but I think I've gotten used to driving.
Good comments though appreciate you all chiming in.

 

[jec6613]

The stranglehold on EWR really only affects leisure travel out of the NJ market, since for business travel people will schlep to LGA/JFK or PHL as required - even WN is pulling out of EWR now because it can't compete against UA though, so the prices aren't that outrageous. There are definitely places where fares have gone up though, despite the nationwide trend (which is true both in raw dollars and inflation adjusted).

 

[vacationer1954]

I strongly believe that due to all the consolidation between airlines has lead to much higher pricing we are dealing with today.

You're not going deep enough. Consolidation is a consequence, not a cause. Practically everything related to how airlines operate these days tracks back to deregulation in 1978. Layer 9/11, and some recessions on top of deregulation, and consolidation was inevitable.

 

[kaytieeldr]

And I hate getting to Logan,

Manchester
Providence
Hartford
Worcester
To a lesser degree, Portsmouth and Portland.

 

[sponica]

Manchester
Providence
Hartford
Worcester
To a lesser degree, Portsmouth and Portland.

I prefer MHT, because it's 10 minutes away...I doubt I could sell my husband on PVD or BDL. If the price is right I'd rather drive to Worcester...because it's at least a stable 45 minutes to an hour drive, far less prone to whatever bonkers thing ties up the hellscape that is Boston area roads.

 

[suemom2kay]

The stranglehold on EWR really only affects leisure travel out of the NJ market, since for business travel people will schlep to LGA/JFK or PHL as required - even WN is pulling out of EWR now because it can't compete against UA though, so the prices aren't that outrageous. There are definitely places where fares have gone up though, despite the nationwide trend (which is true both in raw dollars and inflation adjusted).

Business traveler here. I absolutely am no schlepping to LGA or JFK. I’m in Western NJ and already travel far enough to go to EWR. Lots of biz travelers on my flights.

I think there are many many factors affecting airfare. But, I agree leisure travel to MCO has gone up in the last year. But, I think more-so with JB & SW. I’ve seen UA out of EWR actually come down.

 

[jec6613]

Business traveler here. I absolutely am no schlepping to LGA or JFK. I’m in Western NJ and already travel far enough to go to EWR. Lots of biz travelers on my flights.

I think there are many many factors affecting airfare. But, I agree leisure travel to MCO has gone up in the last year. But, I think more-so with JB & SW. I’ve seen UA out of EWR actually come down.

Yeah, but the bulk of business travelers are flying out of EWR coming from the east. That's why there's even a law that flights over 1500 miles can't leave from LGA except on Saturdays or to Denver, to push those flights to IDL (now JFK) and later EWR. I mean, western NJ isn't that far from PHL for that matter. My bigger point earlier was that the bulk of people coming from the west to EWR tend to be leisure, and the bulk of business come from the east, closer to LGA and JFK.

 

[lost*in*cyberspace]

Quite frankly, Continental sucked. I fly UA all the time and can always tell when I am on a flight with a former CO crew; poor and surly service. I have not noticed airline prices any higher than they were before UA and CO merged.

I have no idea what you mean by “the mess we have.”

 

[jec6613]

Quite frankly, Continental sucked. I fly UA all the time and can always tell when I am on a flight with a former CO crew; poor and surly service. I have not noticed airline prices any higher than they were before UA and CO merged.

I have no idea what you mean by “the mess we have.”

Aw c'mon, they weren't as bad as Northworst!

 

[Disneypro1]

Completely disagree. Is cheap to fly now. Thank goodness for de regulation. We can fly round trip on southwest anytime..that is cheaper than i used to fly in the early 90's while going home on leave from the military. IMHO, flying is the least of costs.

 

[Disneypro1]

Complete opposite here.
As a small airport customer our prices have dropped drastically.
Used to it was almost cost prohibitive to fly out of this airport
Now, for some destinations, it's cheaper than driving to an International airport and for others as close to the cost of the bigger airport it doesn't make it worth it to drive.
And no, the bigger airports haven't gone up that much, our airport has dropped that much. If the prices were what they used to be, I wouldn't be flying period.

Now, CS, yeah, that's pretty poor. I think the airlines know that with their prices so low, people are going to fly, no matter how bad it gets. Driving is always worse. So they have you over a barrel. So to speak.

Yep, agreed 100%

 

[writerguyfl]

PS: We stopped flying four years ago and does the 16 hour car suck yes but the 1k difference now goes a long way to doing more in WDW.

This may come off looking like an attack, but I don't mean it to be. But, if you haven't flown in four years, how can you make statements like the following:

The other thing that suffered greatly is customer service.

Maybe I'm reading to much into your post. But, it sounds like you're letting media reports influence your opinion of companies that you don't use.

Remember, the loudest voices are rarely represent the majority. I think it's worth noting that US airlines transport over 2.4 million passengers every day. You don't hear about all the people who get to their destinations safely and on-time because it's so common. The media only reports on the tiny number of "bad" experiences.

In terms of pricing, it is true that it does cost more on average that it 10 years ago. But, when you adjust for inflation, the cost to travel by air is lower than it was when comparing back to 1990.

In this chart, the bottom line is the average price paid for the "all-in" rate that includes fees like baggage. The top line is the inflation-adjusted price using 2018 as the basis.



Don't get me wrong. I'm not a fan of the airlines. But, as other people have noted, there's so much more driving what's happening in the transportation sector than mergers.

Data Sources:
Total Passengers: http://airlines.org/industry/#safety
Round-Trip Prices: http://airlines.org/dataset/annual-round-trip-fares-and-fees-domestic/

 

[Darcy03231]

All I know is that it "feels" more expensive to fly out of my little airport.

I know some of that is inflation, but I used to be able to fly nonstop roundtrip on SW to MCO for less than 200 dollars. Now that same itinerary costs 330, if I'm lucky. There used to be 5(ish) daily departures and we're lucky to get 2 now....I know it has more to do with SW getting gates at Logan than anything else. But I feel like those gates became available due to other consolidations.

And I hate getting to Logan, because what should only take 45 minutes takes anywhere from an hour to 2.5 hours depending on traffic/construction/accidents/weather/the four horsemen of the apocalypse

Have you tried taking the bus in? DH and I do that now instead of flying in/out of MHT. It's so easy! We park our car for free at the bus terminal and are delivered right to our air terminal at Logan. We've found the prices and flight times to be much better out of Logan than Manchester.