Gradual release

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The big thing is really insurance.

That def. was big for me although I paid my mom when I got back on her plan it allowed me to pay less.

When I graduated college it was $330+ for COBRA health insurance part. I was able to get a Blue Cross Blue Shield policy with a referral price that was about $100 (fairly similar coverage) and kept dental and eye as separate coverages because the price wasn't too bad per month, a year after that ACA went into effect so I went back onto my mom's plan for 1 year paying her, then went onto my employer's plan the subsequent year.

I always hated that part about pre-ACA. Like okay it's awesome I graduated college but then 2 weeks later getting a notice you're being kicked off health, eye and dental was really hard especially when it was just about a year after The Great Recession technically ended. The aftereffects were still very much around especially in the job market.

 

[cvjw]

Yeah I got the idea, it's a uppity way of thinking IMO. Being able to afford a car, whatever it is, is a sign of success especially these days or at least an accomplishment. Same goes for house, etc. Heck health insurance is also one lol.

My sister-in-law was/is very much brand oriented..too bad all she had was issues with her Benz and her Cadillac but it was all about the price tag and the name of it because she thought that's what people cared about in relation to viewing her and her age and success at it.

IRL most people don't talk about specifications of a car like that, they usually just leave it generic because otherwise it tends to leave a certain type of impression..

Feel free to have whatever impression of me that you would like. I am happy that my kids both have been successful after college. They are free to spend their money anyway they like - buying BMW’s and French bulldogs. I am free to still help support them.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Feel free to have whatever impression of me that you would like. I am happy that my kids both have been successful after college. They are free to spend their money anyway they like - buying BMW’s and French bulldogs. I am free to still help support them.

I don't have an impression of you . It's just a detail that IRL doesn't really matter. The fact that they were able to purchase a car is what matters, the perceived wealth that one has by means of purchasing a specific brand does not. Like I said with my sister-in-law has had nothing but trouble with her cars because she assumed people would think something of her, she tried getting rid of her Benz early this year but opted not to due to the car market with the pricing.

I'm sure folks in my neighborhood think I'm the teen with my 2002 Ford Escort ZX2, that's okay doesn't matter to me nor is it a reflection of what money we have, but I am a homeowner and that in realistic terms puts me ahead than a good amount of my counterparts of my high school days because homeownership attainment in my generation is hard to come by.

 

[Colleen27]

Well, yes, I have always lived within my means, probably because I never bought a yacht, or a private island. And yes, people have the freedom to spend their money how they want. And I defer to the financial advisors and credit counselors who work with people earning $150,000 a year who don't understand why these folks can't buy a house in 2022.

When I see these conversations, I always flash back to the (admittedly very old-school) advice I got from my mom and grandfather when I was just starting out about a good rule of thumb when house shopping being 3x your annual salary. I don't remember now if that was referring to purchase price or mortgage amount, but we stuck to it and it felt just about right on what we made at the time - maybe harder to save than it should have been at times, but not what I'd call house poor. By that guideline, there are a lot of places in this country where an income $150K isn't enough to buy a house on these days.

I have a follow-up question, for those of you who are helping your adult children out--do you have an exit strategy? A date certain or possibly a salary or education goal, at which point you'll pull back from the support? I'm not asking to be snarky, I'm just curious. I can understand helping with some things, like health insurance or a cell phone, maybe car insurance. But at some point, the bird's gotta fly, right? They're going to need to figure out how to live within their means, even if they aren't in their dream job. What happens when they get married? Have a child? Do you continue to throw support their way, because housing is expensive, child care is expensive, cars are expensive... On a side note, will they be expected to help YOU if you can't afford retirement, or get a debilitating disease?

Really it isn't something I put a lot of thought into, maybe because the help we give doesn't add up to a whole lot of money. Certainly not so much that we aren't saving for retirement. Or maybe because the one of my kids that is an adult now is good with his money and not living beyond his means in a lifestyle sense. Just struggling with getting launched in a climate where costs of everything are through the roof and wages are lagging far behind.

But yes, in our family helping the older generation is more or less an expectation, though we plan to take after our own parents and only need that help in physical terms (ie a strong back for moving things, a second/younger pair of hands to help with a home repair) than in the financial sense.

 

[tvguy]

When I see these conversations, I always flash back to the (admittedly very old-school) advice I got from my mom and grandfather when I was just starting out about a good rule of thumb when house shopping being 3x your annual salary. I don't remember now if that was referring to purchase price or mortgage amount, but we stuck to it and it felt just about right on what we made at the time - maybe harder to save than it should have been at times, but not what I'd call house poor. By that guideline, there are a lot of places in this country where an income $150K isn't enough to buy a house on these days.

My parents believed you should never pay more than 6 months of your salary. And they also believed you should pay cash. In 1950 they were both working full time and made $5,000 combined. They bought their first house for $2,500 cash. 1 bedroom 1 bath on 5 acres in the sticks. 10 years later, they had slowly added onto it, it was a 3 bedroom 2 bathroom house, and they sold it.
My in laws also never had a mortgage. But my FIL was career Air Force and housing was also included. He retired after 27 years at age 47 and paid $12,500 cash for the only house he ever owned. But he had 27 years to save up for that house.

 

[GAN]

Yeah I got the idea, it's a uppity way of thinking IMO. Being able to afford a car, whatever it is, is a sign of success especially these days or at least an accomplishment. Same goes for house, etc. Heck health insurance is also one lol.

My sister-in-law was/is very much brand oriented..too bad all she had was issues with her Benz and her Cadillac but it was all about the price tag and the name of it because she thought that's what people cared about in relation to viewing her and her age and success at it.

IRL most people don't talk about specifications of a car like that, they usually just leave it generic because otherwise it tends to leave a certain type of impression..

In fairness …there are cars, then there are BMW’s. That’s a fine machine. I’m not big on status vehicles, but my wife drives an X3 and that is one of the best cars I’ve ever been in. But your point is well taken

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

My parents believed you should never pay more than 6 months of your salary.

That's probably because in 1950 the median price of a home was $7,300+ (a CNBC article states that back in 2017), probably a lot easier to have a line in the sand of 6 months of your salary when the difference between your salary and a house was quite a bit closer.

I think we all sorta do that with things over time. You could say "I'll save X months/years for this" but your X chosen it def. relative to the cost of the thing and your financial situation at the time.

 

[Colleen27]

I'm closer to your kids' age than your own, so I'll answer for myself.

I graduated in May of 2011, got married in July of 2011, started my full-time job in August of 2011, and bought my first house in December 2011. My parents gave me zero dollars, but my wife came to the marriage with about $25,000 of unspent college fund money since she had earned scholarships and didn't end up needing it. I had about $30,000 of student loans and needed a car, which I bought myself.

I am now miles ahead of my peers. If you don't let your kids struggle, they'll never learn how to succeed.

As others have said, there are loads of successful kids who didn't have to struggle or pull themselves up by their bootstraps to become successful. And there are even more people for whom life has been a struggle from the start who never get the breathing room they need to figure out how to succeed. My 24yo is also miles ahead of his peers, owning a home and maxing out the employer match on his 401k, and us helping him hasn't held him back any.

And no offense, but it is a lot easier to get that foot in the door as half of a dual-earner unit than as a single person. That alone makes it less of a struggle, both in having someone to share household expenses with rather than shouldering them all yourself and having the built-in buffer against layoffs or illness that exceeds paid sick time. I got married at 22 and that meant being able to do things I couldn't have done on a single income, even in the relatively less challenging economic conditions of 20-odd years ago.

i bolded your above comment-i have to say, if this is through an employer you/your dd are VERY fortunate. mine required us to sign a binding legal statement that attested our "dependents" were age 24 or lower, enrolled full time in college AND-i had to list them as a dependent on my tax return. if they did an audit (had happened on occasion) they could come back at us to reimburse not only the med/dental plan for all the costs but the employer's administrative costs as well (also a disciplinary action for 'filing fraudulent documents').

The ACA mandates that kids up to 26 be covered in most cases. I think there are some exemptions for very small employers or those who self-insure, but most employer-based plans are subject to the new rules.

 

[kdonnel]

We also didn't realize it was a thing for parents to go to her job and help her set up her classroom.

She had many hours of work to setup a new classroom, I was happy to help.

We have also contributed a significant amount of money (>$1000) for needed items that are not provided by the district or parents.

I have always gone to help my wife setup her classroom every year. I have always seen other family members there helping others. I have also seen parents helping their 40+ year old kids during planning week. Teachers work harder than many other professions.

 

[DisneyMomx7]

We did a gradual release. I keep them on my insurance until they are 27 because it costs me way less than it would cost them. We paid their rent for the first year after college and we keep them on our cell phone plan. They pay their car insurance bad car payments, cable and food

 

[CaptainAmerica]

And no offense, but it is a lot easier to get that food in the door as half of a dual-earner unit than as a single person.

My wife doesn't work. She did some part-time animal care work as a passion project when we first got married, but never made more than minimum wage and hasn't had a paycheck since 2013. We run a household of 5 on a single income, but go ahead with how hard it is for a single person to pay for himself and himself alone.

Nice try though.

There's a reason everyone in this thread is referring to their 27- and 28-year-old sons and daughters as "children" and "kids."

 

[GAN]

Its hard to believe someone so successful, still has so much to learn….

 

[goofytinkerbell]

My parents believed you should never pay more than 6 months of your salary.

Can't help it, this made me giggle. I couldn't buy a new CAR with 6 months of my salary, and that's before prices skyrocketed.

My wife doesn't work. She did some part-time animal care work as a passion project when we first got married, but never made more than minimum wage and hasn't had a paycheck since 2013. We run a household of 5 on a single income, but go ahead with how hard it is for a single person to pay for himself and himself alone.

Nice try though.

There's a reason everyone in this thread is referring to their 27- and 28-year-old sons and daughters as "children" and "kids."

I'm on a single income, and I'll tell you right now that it's VERY difficult to live right now. The amount you're earning makes a HUGE difference in that equation, and to suggest otherwise is just insulting. It's not like it was years ago, when the cost of living vs the average income was more reasonable.

 

[HeatherC]

My wife doesn't work. She did some part-time animal care work as a passion project when we first got married, but never made more than minimum wage and hasn't had a paycheck since 2013. We run a household of 5 on a single income, but go ahead with how hard it is for a single person to pay for himself and himself alone.

Nice try though.

There's a reason everyone in this thread is referring to their 27- and 28-year-old sons and daughters as "children" and "kids."

A little judgy about other peoples lives. No one knows what road someone else is walking and everyone has their own struggles. Glad your way works for you….doesn’t mean someone else’s way isn’t as good or the right way for them. And guess what? My “kids” could be 65 and they are still my “kids” to me.

 

[tvguy]

Can't help it, this made me giggle. I couldn't buy a new CAR with 6 months of my salary, and that's before prices skyrocketed.

Well, since by DIS standards when I was working I was poor since I wasn't making the $150,000 a year that some here consider middle class......I guess it depends on what car you buy. Our 2020 Camry Hybrid was under $30,000 new, so it worked out to almost exactly 6 months salary. Or three months combined with my wife's salary. And even our combined salaries were nowhere near $150,000.

 

[dosekies]

I’ll answer as the young adult: after graduating my parents made it clear I was more than welcome to move back home for as long as needed as long as I was working. Their goal for my brother and I was always to allow us to 1. Focus on paying off our student loans and 2. Also try to save a decent amount while doing that. They kept us on their health insurance until we were kicked off for our age, we just needed to pay for any extra bills that came along with it such as getting glasses or doctors appointments. They also kept us on their phone plan. We were never expected to really pay for anything around the house, but I’m sure if we weren’t actually working like we were or if we were messing around it would have been different. We bought our own cars and paid for insurance and gas for those on our own, but every once in a while my dad would surprise us and take them for a car wash and fill up for us.

When I got my first apartment with my fiancé obviously I was responsible for paying that rent and everything that goes along with living in an apartment, but insurance and phone bills stayed with them and they would offer to help here and there just to be nice with groceries or something. They even ended up letting me move back home for a year when we decided we wanted to buy a house but needed time without rent to really finish saving enough for it. Now that I’m married and have a house, the only constant thing they have offered is to keep me on their phone plan which I’ll never complain about! I just pay for the actual phone when I need a new one.

I’m so thankful they allowed me to stay after college and never forced me out, rent is absolutely insane out there and they are happy that I was able to get most of my student loans payed off while also being able to afford a nice starter home well within mine and my husband‘s means - it would have probably taken a heck of a lot longer to get here if I would have had to move out on my own right away!

 

[barkley]

We'd like to spread that wealth to them in meaningful ways but we want to be careful that we're not encouraging that they live above their own means.

GREAT INSIGHT! this is so frequently overlooked when people (with the best of intentions) are 'helping' their adult children out financially to live beyond what they can even reasonably afford with their current let alone future earning's means.

where i have seen what i perceive as a LONG term tragic impact is when it has impacted the well meaning parent's grandchildren and great grandchildren. i have extended family where the parents 'helped' the adult kids as singletons, young marrieds and then continued on when the grands were born b/c they wanted to be able to 'help' so their grands could go to private schools, on out of the country 'educational trips', do extracurricular stuff....the parents of these kids never spoke out to the financial assistance the grands were providing, so THEIR kids looked at the lifestyle they were being raised in and just assumed they could go into similar careers as their parents (as well as attend the same pricey private schools their parents attended on the grands dollar) and live the same if not better lifestyle. to say that these grands were hit with sticker shock when they graduated and found out what those careers paid and how they in no way supported the lifestyle they were raised in is putting it lightly b/c they were also saddled with upwards of 6 figures in student debt (their parents didn't pay for college so it never occurred to their parents what that school cost when they actively pushed their own kids to attend despite not having a dime to help/grands no longer in a position to help). the grands are now in their early 40's with kids of their own who are being raised at a far lower standard of life than 4 generations prior. the grand(kid) adults feel like failures b/c they were/are unable to somehow succeed in the manner of their parents (still have never let on to the financial help they received). the help was with the very best of intentions but has had generational negative implications.

 

[goofytinkerbell]

Well, since by DIS standards when I was working I was poor since I wasn't making the $150,000 a year that some here consider middle class......I guess it depends on what car you buy. Our 2020 Camry Hybrid was under $30,000 new, so it worked out to almost exactly 6 months salary. Or three months combined with my wife's salary. And even our combined salaries were nowhere near $150,000.

By those standards I'm not even making enough to be classed as poor. With 2 jobs I wasn't even making 1/3rd of that, and covid caused me to lose my part time job.

When I realized my ancient car wasn't going to pass inspection this year, I started looking at used cars. With the inflated prices I decided to price "new" ones (including "last years" models). Once fees were added, the cheapest car of any brand I could find was $26,000 and change. Tack tax on, and I'm well over the 6 month mark. I'm in Canada though, so I'm not sure how much different vehicle prices are here. And for the record, I wound up with another falling-apart used car. But that's what I could scrape together the money for.

I understand that everyone's circumstances are different. I remember what it was like being poor (choosing between rent/food/heat) and know that I'm only a few missed pays away from being back there. It's worse than it used to be, where you don't even have to dip below the poverty line to end up in that situation anymore. I've noticed an elitist attitude from some people on the boards where they seem to think poor means not being able to pay their fully grown "children"'s rent. I'm not trying to be insulting. It's nice for people to be able to help out their kids, even if they are adults. But in my experience, those "kids" wind up as spoiled, unappreciative adults. If they've never had to experience any hardships, they tend not to have much empathy for those people who try their best but can't seem to get ahead. Maybe I'm just sensitive because my financial situation gets more precarious every month, but I'm frustrated and.... well... maybe being on the boards just isn't good for me right now.

 

[disneychrista]

I think this is a sign of the times. I saw it too in my older family members when the 2008 recession hit.

Only if the sign is those just out of college expecting to live the same lifestyle they were accustomed to while living with their parents.

Is it really better for both parent & child to have the child living "on their own" but only with financial help vs the child living at home with their parents?

 

[tvguy]

By those standards I'm not even making enough to be classed as poor. With 2 jobs I wasn't even making 1/3rd of that, and covid caused me to lose my part time job.

When I realized my ancient car wasn't going to pass inspection this year, I started looking at used cars. With the inflated prices I decided to price "new" ones (including "last years" models). Once fees were added, the cheapest car of any brand I could find was $26,000 and change. Tack tax on, and I'm well over the 6 month mark. I'm in Canada though, so I'm not sure how much different vehicle prices are here. And for the record, I wound up with another falling-apart used car. But that's what I could scrape together the money for.

I understand that everyone's circumstances are different. I remember what it was like being poor (choosing between rent/food/heat) and know that I'm only a few missed pays away from being back there. It's worse than it used to be, where you don't even have to dip below the poverty line to end up in that situation anymore. I've noticed an elitist attitude from some people on the boards where they seem to think poor means not being able to pay their fully grown "children"'s rent. I'm not trying to be insulting. It's nice for people to be able to help out their kids, even if they are adults. But in my experience, those "kids" wind up as spoiled, unappreciative adults. If they've never had to experience any hardships, they tend not to have much empathy for those people who try their best but can't seem to get ahead. Maybe I'm just sensitive because my financial situation gets more precarious every month, but I'm frustrated and.... well... maybe being on the boards just isn't good for me right now.

I have a lot of family in Canada and the cost of cars is higher there. I got VERY lucky buying our last car a few months into the pandemic, before the chip shortage, the Toyota dealer had a lot full of cars, and a showroom empty of customers.
We lived paycheck to paycheck for years, so I can relate. I kept our family car 31 years, no rust in California, and cheaper to fix than replace. My kids didn't care that our special dining out trips were to Dennys. In retirement, our income is way down, but fortunately our expenses are down even more. Just one of the cycles of life.