Goofy Training Plans - Galloway v. Hidgon

[MeridaAndAngus]

I'm signed up for my first Goofy Challenge in 2017. I did my first half at marathon weekend in 2015, and my first full was the WDW Marathon this year. I've been running since mid-2014, using Galloway's run-walk training plans. I have been working on fitness and weight loss since mid-2014, and I now cross-train with kickboxing, barre, and yoga. I generally run 3 days a week, and do some sort of cross-training for 1-2 hours, 4-5 days/week (some days include a morning run, and a cross-training class after work). I've made huge progress in my endurance, and overall I've had good experiences using the Galloway plans to train for all of my rD races, including challenge races.

At this point, I'm wondering if I should try a different training plan for my first Goofy. I've seen recommendations to use Hal Higdon's intermediate 2 plan for Goofy training (http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51140/Marathon-Intermediate-2-Training-Program). It seems interesting, but I have a few concerns--I know won't have time to get in a 8-10 mile midweek run that is listed on the plan during the last several weeks. I'm still a slow runner, and my work schedule just won't permit me to take that kind of time on a weekday, so those runs would probably be 5-6 milers. Also, I really enjoy my cross-training and feel it has helped my overall fitness as well as my hip/leg strength and stability for running. If I switch to the Higdon plan, I think some of my cross-training would go by the wayside as I'd be running about 5 days per week.

My goals for the Goofy are to (a) finish, and (b) get through the last 10k of the marathon without feeling like I'm going to die. To be honest, I missed some of the long runs leading up to my first marathon this year, which I'm sure contributed to the hell that was the last 10k. Nevertheless, I was able to finish, and I was back to cross-training and light running a few days after the marathon, so even with a few missed long runs, the Galloway plan did work for me.

My other running goals are to (a) improve my cardio endurance (e.g., be able to run longer intervals and walk shorter intervals), and (b) improve my speed. I've started doing some speed drills, which I haven't done since high school. They do seem to be helping, but I feel a little lost as to how to best work these into my training as races draw closer.

I supposed what I'm really asking here is this: it seems like the Higdon plans are for more experienced and/or faster runners looking to boost their weekly mileage. Are these plans really a good fit for someone who is training for their second marathon, who is still a slow runner who uses run/walk intervals? Or should I stick with Galloway and try a Higdon plan next year?

 

[alexksmith]

The biggest issue I've had with Higdon plans to begin with is that it doesn't seem like there are enough miles outside of the long run - meaning your weekly total is too reliant on one day. If your main concern is feeling good, running consistent easy miles is the most important thing. Just racking up as many miles as is possible week to week on a consistent basis. Of course it goes without saying to ramp up to it. I don't know where your mileage is at currently, but I wouldn't worry about speed work if you're not worried about finishing in a certain time. Just log as many easy miles as possible and gradually increase it.

It stinks that you don't have time to run 8 miles or so during the week, but that's ok not everyone does. Anyway, I guess my longwinded advice if you're short on time is not worry about speed work and just increase mileage as much as the time you have allotted for running allows. Easy, conversational pace miles will improve your aerobic base more than anything else, or so I've heard and it's proven to be the case for me. And of course do it slowly, you definitely don't want an over use injury.

 

[Ariel484]

I disagree - I think Galloway puts too much emphasis on the long run. Higdon has a better balance.

@MeridaAndAngus i used Higdon's Novice 1 for Goofy & Dopey and felt good both times. I shuffled a couple of the runs around to do a couple of back-to-backs. I'm either going to use that again for Goofy or try Intermediate 2,haven't decided yet.

 

[alexksmith]

I disagree - I think Galloway puts too much emphasis on the long run. Higdon has a better balance.

@MeridaAndAngus i used Higdon's Novice 1 for Goofy & Dopey and felt good both times. I shuffled a couple of the runs around to do a couple of back-to-backs. I'm either going to use that again for Goofy or try Intermediate 2,haven't decided yet.

I suppose I should have been more specific, I think they're both way too focused on the long run for total weekly mileage. I have just never used a Galloway plan myself.

 

[FFigawi]

I supposed what I'm really asking here is this: it seems like the Higdon plans are for more experienced and/or faster runners looking to boost their weekly mileage. Are these plans really a good fit for someone who is training for their second marathon, who is still a slow runner who uses run/walk intervals? Or should I stick with Galloway and try a Higdon plan next year?

I think you should consider the Higdon Novice 2 plan. It's not as intensive as the Intermediate plan (you only run four days per week which should fit your preferences well), but it's a step up from the basic novice plan. It also adds some faster paced runs to help you improve your speed. Higdon's plans allow for people of all speeds and styles. You'll be fine with run/walk intervals.

 

[Diskidatheart]

I agree with the others that the Intermediate Plan is probably a more advanced program. It's not necessarily designed specifically for Goofy, but it fits (and is probably geared more towards those who are actually running both races for time). If you do one of the Novice Plans, then I would suggest towards the end of the program as you are peaking with miles, add a couple of back to back runs. Your peak week should include a 10 mile run followed by your 20 mile run.

 

[Nole95]

When I ran Goofy back in 2015 I sort of did a mashup of the Higdon plan.

I would run a short run on Sunday, followed by a pace run on Monday. I would then do long run number 1 on Wednesday and the big run on Thursday. I did not like his plan of having to do a pace run the day before the long run, which is what the intermediate 2 plan does. Like his plan I would have weeks where I did 10 one day and 20 the next day. I just did them at my normal casual long run pace.

For me this worked as I managed to PR both races.

As they say, everyone is different. What worked for me might not be best for you.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I'll add my two cents. The marathon is a 99% aerobic event. The key to improving your experience in the marathon at the end of the race is to improve your aerobic base and endurance. This is accomplished with mostly easy running. My philosophies on training plans whether they be 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 days per week or multiple runs per day are the same.

1) Have balance in the schedule. When you look at the schedule and the amount of time spent running it should be about 80% easy and 20% hard. Easy is defined as paces about 40 seconds slower than marathon pace and slower (Long Run or slower). Hard is anything at marathon pace or faster. *There is a grey area between my two definitions but most don't do training there.

2) Have balance in the schedule. When you look at the weekly mileage the longest run in the week from a mileage standpoint should be no more than 35% of the total mileage. If you're running 30 miles in a week, then the longest run should be no more than 10.5 miles. The more you have your long run consist of your total weekly mileage the more it increases your risk for injury and makes the recovery longer before the next run (increasing the chance of not being able to comfortably complete the next run).

3) Be wary of too long of duration of runs. Since you are doing run/walk the suggestion I've seen from Coach Jack Daniels is to not exceed 4.5 hours. Beyond that point you have diminishing returns and are increasing your chance of injury. You might say to yourself well how can I train for a 5, 6, 7 hr run with only a 4.5 hour maximum. The key if you're concerned is to boost the mileage/time spent training on the day prior to the long run with lots of easy mileage. It ensures you'll come into the long run not at 100%. This strategy will pay huge dividends at the end of the marathon where you're hoping to improve the most. The concept is referred to as cumulative fatigue. *For people who run and don't do run/walk my suggested max duration run is 2.5 hours.

4) Be more concerned with the time spent training and less concerned with the actual mileage. My philosophy is that (relative fitness training pace) X (time) is more important than actual mileage. My goal in marathon training is to complete as many runs per week between 60-90 minutes. Whether you run 15:00 min/mile or 5:00 min/mile my suggestion would be the same. However while the mileage completed by either person would be different, I believe their relative physical gains are the same if done at the same (relative fitness training pace) X (time).

I'm not familiar with either of the plans listed, but I'm more than willing to help with the leg work of crunching the numbers if you'd like help evaluating your different options. Just send me a PM. I always enjoy helping others.

 

[Keels]

3) Be wary of too long of duration of runs. Since you are doing run/walk the suggestion I've seen from Coach Jack Daniels is to not exceed 4.5 hours.

HOLD UP.

The booze guy is also a running coach?!?! How did I miss this???

 

[Nana2Callie]

I'm glad you asked the question - I was wondering the same thing. Though I'm certainly not as fit as you are - will be starting to training as a beginner.

 

[opusone]

I know won't have time to get in a 8-10 mile midweek run that is listed on the plan during the last several weeks. I'm still a slow runner, and my work schedule just won't permit me to take that kind of time on a weekday, so those runs would probably be 5-6 milers.

There is a lot of good advice above, so I won't rehash what others have said. However, concerning your midweek runs, would your schedule allow for you to split up the 8-10 mile Wednesday runs? For example, could you run 5-6 miles in the morning, then another 2-5 miles at lunch or after work? If not, alternatively, maybe you could reduce the Wednesday run distance and increase the Tuesday and Thursday distances to get to roughly the same weekly mileage. Like, when the schedule is 4mi/9mi/4mi on Tue/Wed/Thu, you could change it to 6mi/6mi/5mi or something like that. You will still get plenty of long runs on the weekends. Just a couple thoughts that might work depending on what your final training plan choice is.