Girl Scout Conflict: Help me approach this tactfully

[QueenIsabella]

I used to be a leader of a mixed troop, and we never, ever had these kinds of problems with cookie booths. There were other issues, to be sure, but not this one!

One thing we did was sign every willing mom up to be a co-leader (i.e., go through the background check, etc.). This assured that we had plenty of people to man cookie booths, drive to events, and so forth. The mothers would rotate cookie booth duty, and we all tried to keep things fair, in terms of who got to pick out the boxes. The moms would help the older kids make change and generally supervise, but let the kids work stuff out beyond that.

Your real problem here is that the mom is omnipresent, and clearly doesn't "see" her DD's behavior. Because this isn't a child problem, it's a parent problem--a leader should be helping all the girls develop skills. Have you talked with other parents? Have they witnessed this behavior? You might have the best luck with a parents meeting, to discuss cookie booths generally--I feel that, if you were to approach this one mom with specific concerns, she would just shoot you down.

FTR, we did have a brownie troop near us where there was a mom like this (totally into it just for her kid, etc.). They dwindled down to a "Troop of One". But that little girl did get recognized for earning every single Try-It patch, so I guess she was better at being a Brownie than my kid, ha ha.

 

[piccolopat]

If you are making comments when these things happen, is the leader hearing them or only the child? If the leader knows and is ignoring you, I would approach her directly and explain that DD will not participate in the booths unless things change. DD can always sell cookies the old fashion way - going door to door (with you), asking friends and relatives, etc.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

If this were me and another adult I had this issue with, I would have zero problem telling her exactly how I feel about her behavior. But with other peoples' kids, you can't just say "Hey, stop being mean". I'd like to teach DD that she doesn't have to tolerate that behavior, and I think if this girl were also 5, she'd say "Hey, that's not nice!" But since she's older and bigger DD just keeps quiet.

I would really like to let the leader know that her daughter's behavior has been making DD cry. I just don't know her well enough to know how she'd react to that.

Why not? If my daughter was being treated so poorly I would have no problem speaking up for her (and I have). If the mother chooses to ignore the behavior, and can't take a hint or direct comment about it, I would pack my daughter up and leave. Your DD doesn't deserve to be treated like that over cookies and sometimes, as much as we want them to fight their own battles, we have to advocate for them.

Either way, if you DD really enjoys Girl Scouts I hope either this situation resolves itself, or she finds a troop that better suits her. She sounds like a really sweet kid!

 

[anniemae]

I would have been out long ago. I have zero tolerance for nonsense, especially from adults. If you must stay in the group, say something. I agree with putting mom on the spot. Say something like, "Hey Sally can I chat with you about the booth? Your DD has been doing such a great job at selling, and my dd is learning a lot by watching her, but she would like to contribute more to selling and setting up the booth. Can she help out more instead of just watching your dd do all the work?"

I am curious as to what mom says when her DD takes over and brushes your dd out of the way? Does she see this behavior?

 

[mjkacmom]

I’d tell my dd to say something, or just stop doing the booth sales. It’s pretty normal for 9 year olds to try to boss around 5 year olds, and it doesn’t sound like she’s just being flat out mean (like calling her stupid). I mean, if one of my kids cried every time an older sibling told them what to do, I’d go crazy. The mom is clueless, she obviously sees no problem if your dd is crying.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Can you simply avoid having your daughter be at the booth.
(of course, then YOU are the lame person who isn't stepping up and doing your share....)

OP, This is not what girl scouts, or any similar organaization to support and encourage and empower young kids is about.
This is supposed to be encouraging and welcoming and positive.
Not a source of negativity and drama for a young child.

Again, having seen a lot of this, with so-called 'leaders' where it is ALL ABOUT THEM, and their total control.
I would seriously re-consider whether this is something I wanted my daughter to be involved in.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Okay.... Having said what I just posted above....
I also took another look at the original post, and the question is....
How do I approach this tactfully.....

The answer is... you don't....
You can not tell others how to behave... This would just not end well.
The old adage... You can't control others actions. ONLY your own.

To 'approach' this, with a person like this leader and her daughter, would be taken as a 'confrontation'... No matter how so-called tactfully you try to go about it.
You need to find a way to move forward in a positive way.
You could become the Daisy Leader.
You could find other activities for your daughter that are more positive and welcoming than this troop seems to be under the current leadership.
There are probably several options or ways you could go.

 

[Lilacs4Me]

This is easy - stand up for your daughter and say something!

I hesitate more when it's a same grade/age/gender thing, because there are more repercussions. For example, I am a coach of many girls who go to school with my DD. I am careful about how and why I address issues, so that I leave my DD13 out of it and make sure the problem girls don't associate getting reprimanded by me (their coach) with getting "in trouble" by DD13's mom.

But in your case, the other girl is 4 years older than your DD. They will have very little peer interaction over the course of their childhoods, and you will eventually move on as well. The next time Ms. SassyBoss wants to take over, step in and include the mom in the conversation. I would say something like "Hey girls, you are both here together to do this sale. You need to compromise and work together, isn't that right Mrs. SassyBoss's mom?"

Also, 9 year olds are completely obnoxious 80% of the time anyway...they have been around long enough to think they know everything, yet don't have the maturity to self-monitor their behavior. It's the age, most kids do this kind of stuff. A quick side-note to the mom would probably go a long way in curbing the behavior. Unless the mom acts the same way...and then you know where the kid is getting it from and chances are the mom won't see anything wrong with how her DD is behaving. That's when you know it's time to find another troop!

And, don't freak out over this stuff! It only gets worse, so start teaching your DD how to stand up for herself now. Girls can be brutal. Just wait for middle school lunch table drama if you think this is bad!

 

[Wishing on a star]

only the leader and her husband run the booths. Which is fine, except DD feels very unwelcome. This 9 year old is very controlling and seems to think that she is the end all be all cookie authority. If DD tries to put, say, the thin mints next to the smores, she'll push DD aside and say "No, the thin mints go by the peanut butter patties!" Or she tells DD she faced the box the wrong way. Or if a customer tells us what they want, and DD goes to get it for them, she'll push her aside and grab it.

After going and re-considering the original post...
1. It is not fine that no other adults are involved except the 'leader' (and her DH)
2. The word 'pushed' is used twice here. If this 9 year olds hands are actually in contact with my 5 year olds body... there is just no way, ever, at all, that this would be okay.

 

[Wishing on a star]

It only gets worse, so start teaching your DD how to stand up for herself now. Girls can be brutal. Just wait for middle school lunch table drama if you think this is bad!

This was my first thought, immediately.....
The thing is, this is NOT just school lunch table drama between girls.
This involves a 'leader'.... A leader who is looking the other way, and possibly even encouraging this, as a person in authority.

I can't begin to imagine how this could look when the older girls soon become 'tweens'.

Sometimes one has to choose their battles....
I just can't see this battle as being worth it.
I can't see choosing to continue to have my young 5 year old daughter to be disrespected by a kid almost twice her age, AND the adult in the sole position of authority.

 

[Lilacs4Me]

This was my first thought, immediately.....
The thing is, this is NOT just school lunch table drama between girls.
This involves a 'leader'.... A leader who is looking the other way, and possibly even encouraging this, as a person in authority.

I can't begin to imagine how this could look when the older girls soon become 'tweens'.

Sometimes one has to choose their battles....
I just can't see this battle as being worth it.
I can't see choosing to continue to have my young 5 year old daughter to be disrespected by a kid almost twice her age, AND the adult in the sole position of authority.

I totally agree!

The middle school thing was a side-note to the general issue, and yes, I would never choose to stay quiet and do nothing when my is being bullied- especially at age 5, by a 9 year old, and the mom does nothing! I'd either say something and make it stop, or I'd cut my losses and get out of there!

Of course, getting over the peak and now being on the downhill slope of parenting children gives me perspective that I didn't have when my kids were 5 and I didn't realize that social issues are fluid and controllable. I was a basket case when my oldest was 5 and we ran into people like this leader/daughter. Time and experience has proven to make me wise...

 

[RangerPooh]

She is all of these things.

She can't be both leader and co-leader. You must have two unrelated adults in these positions.

I would take this year as a learning experience. Next year be ready with a plan. Offer to sign up as a parent volunteer or co-leader. This way you can help staff cookie booths. Split them between the two of you (fairly) so that her daughter is not at every booth.

My girls have been involved in GS since our oldest was a K Daisy in 2010. Since 2011 I've been in the roles of troop leader, co-leader, SU cookie manager, and troop cookie manager. My daughters are not at every booth. I post a sign up sheet and ask for parents to help cover the booth with me or another coleader (who's daughter is not at every booth either). Our daughters only do extra booths that are lacking coverage.

 

[Funfire240]

Are you sure your daughter's not taking it the wrong way? I'm not trying to discredit her or anything but could it have been taken the wrong way?
I'm cookie mom and do all of our booths with some help. When I'm at a booth, my DD is always there with me so gets more credit then others that are only there for a portion of the time. That's just how it is. It's my time and she's there so she gets the advantage. She's also 9. She is there to set up the booths with me and tears everything down. She has ways she likes things and when her friends try to move things around, she doesn't like it. She's been like this since we started doing booths when she was 5 in Daisies. This is our 5th year. She likes things in order. However, it is not bullying to me if she tells one of her friends they put the box in the wrong spot or faced it the wrong way (which she does quite often as she's just trying to keep things in order and the booth looking nice.) It also makes it easier for sales when you know where things are and in what order.

 

[Hikergirl]

Can you simply avoid having your daughter be at the booth.
(of course, then YOU are the lame person who isn't stepping up and doing your share....)

OP, This is not what girl scouts, or any similar organaization to support and encourage and empower young kids is about.
This is supposed to be encouraging and welcoming and positive.
Not a source of negativity and drama for a young child.

Again, having seen a lot of this, with so-called 'leaders' where it is ALL ABOUT THEM, and their total control.
I would seriously re-consider whether this is something I wanted my daughter to be involved in.

I do agree with alot of what you are saying, but it isn't always the case where it is all about them. Sometimes it is ONLY them because parents don't want to step up and help. Sometimes the leader's dd is the only one willing to do the work when other girls and their parents aren't.
Not saying that is the case with the OP's situation, but it isn't always the case where the leader and her dd are being controlling and all about themselves.

 

[Lilacs4Me]

Are you sure your daughter's not taking it the wrong way? I'm not trying to discredit her or anything but could it have been taken the wrong way?
I'm cookie mom and do all of our booths with some help. When I'm at a booth, my DD is always there with me so gets more credit then others that are only there for a portion of the time. That's just how it is. It's my time and she's there so she gets the advantage. She's also 9. She is there to set up the booths with me and tears everything down. She has ways she likes things and when her friends try to move things around, she doesn't like it. She's been like this since we started doing booths when she was 5 in Daisies. This is our 5th year. She likes things in order. However, it is not bullying to me if she tells one of her friends they put the box in the wrong spot or faced it the wrong way (which she does quite often as she's just trying to keep things in order and the booth looking nice.) It also makes it easier for sales when you know where things are and in what order.

Have you ever thought to tell your DD that she won't always get her way, and she needs to let other kids do it their way sometimes? Just because you are the cookie mom and she is there doesn't mean she should be allowed to dictate how the entire booth is run ALL of the time.

As the leader, it is up to you to let ALL the girls make decisions (and mistakes) so they can learn from them. Cookie boxes not in order and it is hard to find the one the nice lady wants? Perfect teaching moment for why things go in order. Letting the girls experience the difficulty of disorganization = good teaching moment. Letting your DD rule over everyone because "she likes things certain ways and she's been there since she's been 5" = entitlement and enforces superiority.

I don't care how long a girl has been doing booth sales or how many hours she is there with her mother. If she is that picky that she freaks out and has to tell her "friends" that they did something wrong and they need to fix it (or she fixes it for them), I would think the kid is obnoxious. And since the girl (and the mom, apparently) thinks this is OK and not being a bully, my response would be to let them handle the booth all by themselves next time while my daughter and I do something more fun.

Signed - a former GS leader who has done many cookie booths and current coach of middle school girls who NEVER lets my daughter act like she is better than anyone or entitled to more just because I am the leader/coach.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Hiker girl.... Nothing is 'always the case'.
I am posting very specifically about the OP's case.
But, hey... whatever....

I will refuse to personally engage and sidetrack this thread.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Yes, Lilacs....
Perspective!!!!!!

 

[Hikergirl]

Yes, Lilacs....
Perspective!!!!!!

How ironic.........

 

[cabanafrau]

Have you ever thought to tell your DD that she won't always get her way, and she needs to let other kids do it their way sometimes? Just because you are the cookie mom and she is there doesn't mean she should be allowed to dictate how the entire booth is run ALL of the time.

As the leader, it is up to you to let ALL the girls make decisions (and mistakes) so they can learn from them. Cookie boxes not in order and it is hard to find the one the nice lady wants? Perfect teaching moment for why things go in order. Letting the girls experience the difficulty of disorganization = good teaching moment. Letting your DD rule over everyone because "she likes things certain ways and she's been there since she's been 5" = entitlement and enforces superiority.

I don't care how long a girl has been doing booth sales or how many hours she is there with her mother. If she is that picky that she freaks out and has to tell her "friends" that they did something wrong and they need to fix it (or she fixes it for them), I would think the kid is obnoxious. And since the girl (and the mom, apparently) thinks this is OK and not being a bully, my response would be to let them handle the booth all by themselves next time while my daughter and I do something more fun.

Signed - a former GS leader who has done many cookie booths and current coach of middle school girls who NEVER lets my daughter act like she is better than anyone or entitled to more just because I am the leader/coach.

Absolutely!

As a former GS leader I have a lot of questions about OP's situation. First of all the way the leadership & cookie booth oversight is described violates the rules as I knew them back in the day -- rules that I cannot imagine changing to allow what OP has described because the potential for misappropriation of funds is the obvious result.

Second, this mixed group springs out of your home school cooperative. Have no other parents made the commitment to sign up, be trained and background cleared and participating? It is simply impossible according to policies to have only 2 related adults from one family in leadership positions. Initially I became a GS leader to make it possible for a troop for my oldest to be formed. This troop clearly needs more adult participation, at least on paper. I say that because it is a mixed age group and GS is about teaching leadership and self empowerment among the girls. Ideally a troop will work towards girls of each age participating up to their capabilities to govern their own troop. In a mixed age troop the sword can be particularly double-edged, so care must be taken that the oldest don't completely dominate those younger. The advantage of the mixed age situation can be that it directly inspires younger girls to strive for their time to be able to do things they've watched older girls manage.

OP, I encourage you to be prepared to shoulder a piece of the burden so that your daughter can have a troop that provides what scouting was designed to do. What I liked about scouting is that it provided an opportunity for my daughters to try out things they were curious about or exposed them to things they were entirely unaware of. Kids are very busy these days and often they join soccer or hockey or gymnastics or dance because they had an interest and that's that, that's the lane they stay in. Scouting can offer exposure and build confidence for kids to be ready to embrace a wide variety of challenges.

 

[undertheradar]

It appears that troop leader and daughter are exactly alike!

In any activity where money is involved, there should never be one family handling it. To protect all interested parties, you should introduce the concept of equal selling time and asking every family to sign up for a selling slot. If you are wanting to handle this without direct confrontation, contact your local council and ask for assistance in your situation. There are many experienced leaders who can attend troop meetings and help steer the leadership back to full participation. Remember, the troop belongs to everyone, not just the leader's family.