Getting very tired of resale brokers who feel like ghosting is OK. Marking them off my list one by one.

[crisi]

I am trying to buy it at the lowest price possible and they are trying to sell it for the highest price possible…. which of us is taking advantage of the other?

I am not aware of a way to discern if a seller is in financial distress or has owned the contract for many years/decades and wants to sell it for a significantly higher price than they paid for it.

As a buyer, I only know the home resort, the amount of points available, the use year, and this years dues and potentially next years dues… that is it…

So, an offer is based on what I am willing to pay for or start at negotiating at… nothing more and nothing less….

You only know your motivations. They may be trying to sell it at a FAIR price - not the highest price possible. Both buyers who are looking for a real lowball bargain and sellers who are looking for sky high prices are risking not getting taken seriously by brokers and by the other half of the sale. Both can expect it to take some time to reach their objective, and they may never be successful at the price they have in mind. There is room for negotiation on what a fair price is - unless, of course, the seller is selling with a firm price.

You can make a lowball offer - but you have to be realistic that a negotiation only happens when the other party chooses to engage. A certain percentage of sellers and brokers are just not going to engage - i.e. ghost you - if you start from a position they think is taking advantage of them.

 

[thelionqueen]

Yes, congrats on that OKW contract! My guess would be that the broker probably had an inclination that the seller was somewhat desperate to unload the contract, as is no doubt the case when lowball offers are accepted.

But personally I disagree that every offer should be treated equally, because they all aren’t equal. It’s not a democracy. It might not be courteous if a broker doesn’t get back to you, but I wouldn’t care if I was trying to maximize the price of a contract I was selling.

Thank you! I’m pretty excited about it! I continue to disagree all offers are exactly that, offers, and all are equal. I’m not sure I understand where you see them differently, but hey, that’s cool..you do you. Thank you for your input

 

[Paul Stupin]

You only know your motivations. They may be trying to sell it at a FAIR price - not the highest price possible. Both buyers who are looking for a real lowball bargain and sellers who are looking for sky high prices are risking not getting taken seriously by brokers and by the other half of the sale. Both can expect it to take some time to reach their objective, and they may never be successful at the price they have in mind. There is room for negotiation on what a fair price is - unless, of course, the seller is selling with a firm price.

You can make a lowball offer - but you have to be realistic that a negotiation only happens when the other party chooses to engage. A certain percentage of sellers and brokers are just not going to engage - i.e. ghost you - if you start from a position they think is taking advantage of them.

Yes, exactly! And you’re right, asking a sky high price or offering to buy at an unreasonably low one are both equally annoying. If I were selling, and didn’t want to sit on my contract forever, I would be looking for a fair price. And if some vulture looking for a deal came in 20 points or more below my offer, hoping I was a distressed seller so they could take advantage of my situation, I don’t think I’d be falling all over myself to make sure my broker was being courteous.

That’s not to say lowball offers are a bad strategy if you have unlimited time and patience, and don’t care how long it takes to get the points you want. But there’s an opportunity cost the potential lowball buyer is paying as well in savings lost from non DVC vacations.

 

[thelionqueen]

I didn't say an occasional lowball offer was any big deal. I said that it happens all the time. What I said was:
"trying to constantly take advantage of people that are already in trouble is a pretty sick way to live."

How in the world anyone would assume anyone’s situation is beyond me.. literally in disbelief reading this, so let me make sure I’m understanding this.

You’re suggesting that a buyer is assuming a sellers situation, number 1. Then further assuming the same buyers are assuming other sellers situations, number 2. Then further assuming the buyers offers are based on taking advantage of a sellers situations we can’t possibly know anything about, number 3. Then, insulting these buyers based on three outrageous assumptions you have no information on in any way. Is that correct? If so, I think therein is the sickness in all this..assuming, judging and blaming situations you have no knowledge of is unbelievable honesty.

 

[mustinjourney]

Willing to bet if we acted like it was 2000 instead of 2023 and dialed a phone and spoke with a human, the amount of lowball offers would drop drastically. Its way too easy to offer a low # while you are bored or just browsing around and dont have to actually present your offer to a person.
Just think of FB Marketplace... I tried to sell a car this spring, I wanted to choke ppl.

is the car still available?

Will you trade a used iPod for it? It's got a lot of songs on it.

 

[tom1944]

You only know your motivations. They may be trying to sell it at a FAIR price - not the highest price possible. Both buyers who are looking for a real lowball bargain and sellers who are looking for sky high prices are risking not getting taken seriously by brokers and by the other half of the sale. Both can expect it to take some time to reach their objective, and they may never be successful at the price they have in mind. There is room for negotiation on what a fair price is - unless, of course, the seller is selling with a firm price.

You can make a lowball offer - but you have to be realistic that a negotiation only happens when the other party chooses to engage. A certain percentage of sellers and brokers are just not going to engage - i.e. ghost you - if you start from a position they think is taking advantage of them.

I would like to make low offers without going into the lowball category

 

[Sandisw]

Yes, exactly! And you’re right, asking a sky high price or offering to buy at an unreasonably low one are both equally annoying. If I were selling, and didn’t want to sit on my contract forever, I would be looking for a fair price. And if some vulture looking for a deal came in 20 points or more below my offer, hoping I was a distressed seller so they could take advantage of my situation, I don’t think I’d be falling all over myself to make sure my broker was being courteous.

That’s not to say lowball offers are a bad strategy if you have unlimited time and patience, and don’t care how long it takes to get the points you want. But there’s an opportunity cost the potential lowball buyer is paying as well in savings lost from non DVC vacations.

I think this sums up well where different potential buyers fall.

 

[disneylandtour]

That’s not to say lowball offers are a bad strategy if you have unlimited time and patience, and don’t care how long it takes to get the points you want. But there’s an opportunity cost the potential lowball buyer is paying as well in savings lost from non DVC vacations.

People have many reasons for selling. These contracts last 50 years, with some being passed down in a will. When there's a group of family members involved in liquifying estate assets so the proceeds can be divided, they can often be very happy in taking an $80 offer on SSR as opposed to waiting around for a $90 offer in two months--simply so they can finish the work of estate division. Sometimes these people have little interest in DVC. And the DVC sale likely ranks low among their current asset concerns. That is, speed here has a monetary value. For other sellers, waiting the two months is more valuable for them to maximize the value. Both $80 and $90 are reasonable sale points for SSR IMO. But you never know which seller you have until you make an offer. On the other hand, $60 is an unviable offer for nearly anyone.

 

[Mle8308]

Again, lowball is subjective. What you consider lowball, the owner may consider more than they expected. Only the seller should make that determination imo. The broker should present all offers regardless of personal opinion.

Now having a conversation is always better than email, so I def agree on that, but absolutely no reason at all why a buyer should have to substantiate or defend an offer. Nor does a seller have to explain the acceptance or rejection of one.

I’m actually perfectly ok with a broker saying, “That’s really low, and likely not going to fly.” And they’re not wrong most of the time. That’s cool, let’s find out That doesn’t make my offer any more or less serious than another offer that’s higher. My offer could be $50k while another $15k..who is more serious of a buyer? Should I be treated better because it’s a higher dollar amount? No, each potential buyer should be treated equally.

I’m a bit confused as to why a conversation is any different than an email-it’s still a low offer right? By your reasoning, it appears as if you’d be perfectly fine with the broker hanging up on you while presenting your offer. Or at minimum, understand why they’d hang up on you..if I’m understanding this correctly. It’s the same thing as ignoring an email, just easier to do electronically without any accountability. The brokers should be professional and courteous as well as buyers, no need to be rude or disrespectful to anyone ever.

Again, I understand and appreciate hearing others opinions and circumstances, each is unique and has value and reason. I'm simply stating that a broker should do their job at its most basic level. Be professional, courteous & respectful. Ignoring someone for any reason is none of those.

"Again, lowball is subjective." No, it's really not, especially if a seller explicitly tells the broker what the lowest acceptable price is. If a contract is advertised at $150 a point and you offer $75, that is lowball, not subjective. If a seller would sell for $75, they wouldn't ask $150. " I'm simply stating that a broker should do their job at its most basic level." Maybe they are by not bothering the seller who may have set a minimum threshold, so no need to get back to you. It happens all the time in real estate when a seller receives a very lowball offer. Especially if you frequently submit lowball offers, the broker knows you aren't going to up your offer so why waste their time. I think the resale companies are probably glad you have decided to not use them. Brokers/companies would rather lose your business than to have to waste their time and efforts dealing with you - especially if you don't buy. Brokers talk to each other, it's a rather small community and they keep in each others business. And I don't think your opinion is as strong on other boards/FB as you may think. People can read between the lines. I, for one, would not not use or use a broker based on your posts here. Most people will use whatever broker if they have what they are looking for. Unfortunately, you seem to have really limited yourself. However, I do hope you find your unicorn low ball contract and it works for you!

 

[Unclelude]

Without ROFR I think it's more difficult to call something a 'lowball' ... just over a year ago Mickey was buying back SSR sometimes in the $130s! ... it's not easy to justify a bottom while the monster is sleeping...

 

[GrumpyInPhilly]

I have to give a shoutout to Lauri @ www.dvcresaleexperts.com. She kept presenting my offers to sellers until one of them saw eye-to-eye with me.

 

[crisi]

"Again, lowball is subjective." No, it's really not, especially if a seller explicitly tells the broker what the lowest acceptable price is. If a contract is advertised at $150 a point and you offer $75, that is lowball, not subjective. If a seller would sell for $75, they wouldn't ask $150. "

this might be worth a poll. Offering 10% below the asking price - sure. 80% - that's definately lowball and unreasonable. Where that line is probably is subjective, but we probably have something close to a consensus on what that number is.

And I'm saying asking price on purpose - if you've got someone on the other end of this - a seller with sky high expectations of what their contract is worth, I don't think offering 50% of its asking price is going to get you far - even if that's only a 10% discount over what contracts are going for.

 

[tom1944]

this might be worth a poll. Offering 10% below the asking price - sure. 80% - that's definately lowball and unreasonable. Where that line is probably is subjective, but we probably have something close to a consensus on what that number is.

And I'm saying asking price on purpose - if you've got someone on the other end of this - a seller with sky high expectations of what their contract is worth, I don't think offering 50% of its asking price is going to get you far - even if that's only a 10% discount over what contracts are going for.

The price range that every resort is listed at almost creates that some will get lowball offers.

There are BLT listings from $129 to 190 and SSR contracts from $92 to 146 and most of them have no significant point structure difference from the low end to high end of the asking price.
I did not include the $201 BLT contract that has been listed for 26 months.

If I offer $92 on the $146 asking is that a lowball offer or is the list price a ridiculous attempt at taking advantage of an uniformed buyer?

 

[Sandisw]

The price range that every resort is listed at almost creates that some will get lowball offers.

There are BLT listings from $129 to 190 and SSR contracts from $92 to 146 and most of them have no significant point structure difference from the low end to high end of the asking price.
I did not include the $201 BLT contract that has been listed for 26 months.

If I offer $92 on the $146 asking is that a lowball offer or is the list price a ridiculous attempt at taking advantage of an uniformed buyer?

If someone is asking that high for an SSR right now, my guess is it is someone who might have bought in the last year or so when it was going in the $130s and is now having to sell..and may owe on it…

 

[thelionqueen]

I would like to make low offers without going into the lowball category

Good luck with that lol. I personally don’t see it as a negative it’s just the perception of the term. I prefer savvy buyer

 

[thelionqueen]

Without ROFR I think it's more difficult to call something a 'lowball' ... just over a year ago Mickey was buying back SSR sometimes in the $130s! ... it's not easy to justify a bottom while the monster is sleeping...

Exactly! If rofr was active that would significantly impact what reasonable would be imo.

 

[Paul Stupin]

People have many reasons for selling. These contracts last 50 years, with some being passed down in a will. When there's a group of family members involved in liquifying estate assets so the proceeds can be divided, they can often be very happy in taking an $80 offer on SSR as opposed to waiting around for a $90 offer in two months--simply so they can finish the work of estate division. Sometimes these people have little interest in DVC. And the DVC sale likely ranks low among their current asset concerns. That is, speed here has a monetary value. For other sellers, waiting the two months is more valuable for them to maximize the value. Both $80 and $90 are reasonable sale points for SSR IMO. But you never know which seller you have until you make an offer. On the other hand, $60 is an unviable offer for nearly anyone.

Yes, agreed! As you mentioned, I’m talking about the blatantly unviable offers, like a buyer offering below $100 for CCV, or a seller asking $150 for an Aulani unsubsidized. It’s a total waste of everyone’s time.

 

[crisi]

The price range that every resort is listed at almost creates that some will get lowball offers.

There are BLT listings from $129 to 190 and SSR contracts from $92 to 146 and most of them have no significant point structure difference from the low end to high end of the asking price.
I did not include the $201 BLT contract that has been listed for 26 months.

If I offer $92 on the $146 asking is that a lowball offer or is the list price a ridiculous attempt at taking advantage of an uniformed buyer?

That's a lowball offer. If someone is asking a ridiculously high price, don't engage with them, they aren't living in reality.

 

[thelionqueen]

The price range that every resort is listed at almost creates that some will get lowball offers.

There are BLT listings from $129 to 190 and SSR contracts from $92 to 146 and most of them have no significant point structure difference from the low end to high end of the asking price.
I did not include the $201 BLT contract that has been listed for 26 months.

If I offer $92 on the $146 asking is that a lowball offer or is the list price a ridiculous attempt at taking advantage of a uniformed buyer?

Depends on who you ask. Some would say it is but I dont. It’s really up to you to decide what to offer. Anyone else’s opinion doesn’t matter at all imo. It’s your money. They can easily say no, or maybe yes. Don’t let what others perceive drive what you think is fair

 

[Pizzaman12]

A broker does not typically tell a seller what they should do...they simply present the offer and ask if you want to accept, counter or reject...unless the seller asks them for advice. None of the brokers in all my sales did that and of course, there were a few times I decided I didn't want to counter...no idea what the broker thought of that decision.

I guess this is really where we differ. Just because a contract ended up selling for less than previous offers that were rejected, does not mean a broker isn’t doing their job, or ill advised a seller, or that they should be handling things differently.

I bet there are a lot more contracts that end up with sellers getting more than previous offer in the end than those that regret walking away from one….all of the sellers of the contracts I bid on doe RIV in March sold for more than the $100/pt I offered them. Lol.

Definitely seems like a wide range of opinions on how each of us views the roles of the broker, and what we are willing to put up with if we want our deals,

Hahahaha. I was offering $100 for RIV like crazy a few months ago as well! I got one. Kinda wish I had gotten a couple more.