Gators at resorts...facts and wise tips

[WishesCameTrue]

Better signs would be a start. A simple sign warning people that there are alligators would do wonders. The thing I keep coming back to is if people were clear as to the nature of an alligator attack, I don't think any parent in their right mind would even be on that beach in the evening or at night time. Because your child could be standing right at the edge, not even in the water, and be a victim. Sure, it's rare, but it's not out of the realm of possibility. Whether they are in 3 inches of water or standing right next to the waterline, is that really a difference? Would any sane parent say, "well, he's in danger in three inches of water but perfectly safe standing right next to the water!" I read comments on a different thread chastising the parents, saying it's common knowledge that in Florida, not only does no swimming mean no wading, but it means don't go ANYWHERE NEAR the water. If that's the case, then these beaches and their activities need to go.

I posted earlier about the numerous gators we saw at SOG last October but want to clarify my feelings based on the the opening sentence here which states " A simple sign warning people that there are alligators would do wonders" as being correct. Checking into the hotel you are not given any special information warning about gators like you may get when you are playing golf at either of the courses which are on both sides of the hotel. Both of the places where we saw gators (the paths leading to the poly and to the pool) are not necessarily utilized by golfers.
So seeing the signs at SOG which clearly warn about gators with an image and wording "Do not feed", "Beware of Alligators" DID make a difference in how we regarded the bodies of water. Although none of these bodies of water are tempting swimming locations, the ones in the back of the hotel in particular would be a temptation to go to the edge as there are fish and other wild life that you may want to get a closer look at. But again THE SIGNS MAKE YOU THINK TWICE.
One example is seeing 3-4 foot gator sunning itself on the edge of the water on the way to the pool which was about 12 yards from the path. There is only grass between you on path and gator at the edge of the water. The signs are located close to the path as to warn you not to go past them and you can see why this it is so.
So horrible what happened to this family

 

[tobikaye]

So to add more stats:

Bacteria Per the CDC:
138 PAM infections from 1962 through 2015-- so less than 3 per year- roughly 1-2 per year in Texas and Florida combined.
...

I did not say anything about it being rare, just that the risk is greater in places such as Florida, and Texas it seems, than other places in the US.

 

[boltjames]

Better signs would be a start. A simple sign warning people that there are alligators would do wonders. The thing I keep coming back to is if people were clear as to the nature of an alligator attack, I don't think any parent in their right mind would even be on that beach in the evening or at night time. Because your child could be standing right at the edge, not even in the water, and be a victim. Sure, it's rare, but it's not out of the realm of possibility. Whether they are in 3 inches of water or standing right next to the waterline, is that really a difference? Would any sane parent say, "well, he's in danger in three inches of water but perfectly safe standing right next to the water!" I read comments on a different thread chastising the parents, saying it's common knowledge that in Florida, not only does no swimming mean no wading, but it means don't go ANYWHERE NEAR the water. If that's the case, then these beaches and their activities need to go.

The lack of signage and frequency of gator sightings is the big story in the papers up here in New York, they posted this photo of the sign on the beach at the Grand Floridian.

Yesterday we discussed confusion over what "No Swimming" means to tourists who are unfamiliar with Florida's amphibious population, well, it's worse than that. The sign clearly tells you why you shouldn't swim there and it does nothing to let out-of-state vacationers know of the nighttime danger of stalking alligators. Disney should be ashamed of themselves. Look what they've done.

 

[boltjames]

I have to admit that before this incident I had no knowledge of gators being on Disney property. I honestly thought Disney had some sort of barrier to prevent them from entering. As for the sign I would definitely not let my kids touch the waters, but would have made the mistake of sittting a couple feet away from it. Like the picture posted I would have thought it was safe enough to do that. I've read of alligators jumping out and snatching pets and people who are just passing by, not sure how true this is. This unfortunate accident most likely has opened the eyes of many unaware Guests who will be visiting in the future.

I hope that the family finds some sort of way to recover from this tragedy. I can imagine the images are replaying in their minds over and over. The thoughts of how many different ways this would have been prevented. My heart breaks at the thought of what that poor child went through. My prayers to the family and those who witnessed this horrific accident. RIP little Angel!!

I've been a big Disney fan and proponent going back 40 years now. I could live with their outrageous ticket prices, I could tolerate the boredom they've allowed to seep into the theme parks, I could live with the wasted weekend we spent at useless Disneyland Paris, I could control my anger over FastPass blocking my family out of key rides. I could deal with all of it because deep down I knew that Disney cared about families and they may have made some financial decisions that I didn't agree with but the special environment they created down in Orlando was still the best in the world for young families and I could turn a blind eye to all the rest as a result.

But this one has done it for me. I'm out. I cannot believe that for the better part of 20 years I've had my children on resort beaches feet away from man-eating alligators and Disney knew there was a risk and Disney did nothing about it. This isn't about lawsuits. Disney broke a promise to parents everywhere and the trust they've just lost is not coming back, not from me anyway. Someone somewhere made the decision that putting scary alligator warnings on signage was bad business, that bringing hundreds of children to a phony beach so they could sell s'mores kits for $5 during nighttime predator feeding time was the bigger priority. This is the final straw. That trip we were planning for my son's 5th birthday next year? That conference for 200 people that my wife authorizes to be hosted there every February? We'll take our business somewhere where they truly put families first.

 

[super_troop]

So if Disney is responsible for this attack by a wild animal that happened on their property, does that mean that the states with beaches are responsible for attacks by sharks?

 

[chigirl]

oltjames, post: 55944111, member: 35952"]

The lack of signage and frequency of gator sightings is the big story in the papers up here in New York, they posted this photo of the sign on the beach at the Grand Floridian.

Yesterday we discussed confusion over what "No Swimming" means to tourists who are unfamiliar with Florida's amphibious population, well, it's worse than that. The sign clearly tells you why you shouldn't swim there and it does nothing to let out-of-state vacationers know of the nighttime danger of stalking alligators. Disney should be ashamed of themselves. Look what they've done.[/QUOTE]2
I am not a Disney apologist by any means, I go to WDW every year and am going in August to POR. I stayed at WL in 2014 with my older kids and we strolled the grounds and watched the ELP from the shore of Bay Lake. I spent my childhood in Florida visiting grandparents and teenage years in Marco Island at my parents vacation condo, so I know how dangerous Florida fresh and ocean bodies of water CAN be. A boy died. Everyone is upset. Some blame the parents, others blame Disney. Because nobody wants to believe that freaky things can happen. WDW has been opened since 1971 with millions of visitors, 52 million visitors a year according to the Washington Post,and 2 attacks by gators in 45 years!. Signs would NOT have prevented this. People ignore signs. Taking away beaches and beach activities would not prevent it. It was a freak accident. Like a lightening strike. Disney is not a fault, the parents are not at fault. It was a freak accident of the perfect storm of mating season+dusk feeding time+small kid in water splashing like a small target. The odds of it happening again are a billion to one. But yes, Disney will put up more signs, might close the beach activities, and pay out millions to this family.

 

[ebclay]

I've been a big Disney fan and proponent going back 40 years now. I could live with their outrageous ticket prices, I could tolerate the boredom they've allowed to seep into the theme parks, I could live with the wasted weekend we spent at useless Disneyland Paris, I could control my anger over FastPass blocking my family out of key rides. I could deal with all of it because deep down I knew that Disney cared about families and they may have made some financial decisions that I didn't agree with but the special environment they created down in Orlando was still the best in the world for young families and I could turn a blind eye to all the rest as a result.

But this one has done it for me. I'm out. I cannot believe that for the better part of 20 years I've had my children on resort beaches feet away from man-eating alligators and Disney knew there was a risk and Disney did nothing about it. This isn't about lawsuits. Disney broke a promise to parents everywhere and the trust they've just lost is not coming back, not from me anyway. Someone somewhere made the decision that putting scary alligator warnings on signage was bad business, that bringing hundreds of children to a phony beach so they could sell s'mores kits for $5 during nighttime predator feeding time was the bigger priority. This is the final straw. That trip we were planning for my son's 5th birthday next year? That conference for 200 people that my wife authorizes to be hosted there every February? We'll take our business somewhere where they truly put families first.

I am sure your wife might have some disappointed coworkers when she cancels the annual WDW trip

 

[njmousefest]

Just wondering - Would the story and thought process be any different if a child was bitten by a brown recluse at the resort and died as a result?

 

[Gillyrose779]

I did not say anything about it being rare, just that the risk is greater in places such as Florida, and Texas it seems, than other places in the US.

I'm not even sure it is greater really- it is just warmer longer in the year in TX and FL than it is in other parts of the country. More swim time equates to more chance for exposure. In IL we may get 3 months of swim weather where- in TX and FL it could be 6 months. Double the time in the water equals double the risk.

There is a good chance my risk is the same if I swim for 3 months in IL versus 3 months in FL.

 

[k&a&c'smom]

Popped back in this morning to read "tips about gators", and per usual, found a firestorm! Oh, the DIS. I confess, I've skipped a lot of the "my family didn't understand the sign to mean no wading"..."everyone MUST understand it to mean no wading!" posts, so forgive me if this has been posted.

Whatever your thinking on whether the signage is clear enough (I do not think it is, and have not for years, our family has debated why you can't swim but CAN pay to parasail, etc. in the same waters), many of the other resort areas in Orlando DO have clearer signage about alligators. News coverage has shown many other hotels and golf courses in the area make it clear there is a danger of gators - why Disney has not done so as well is a mystery. My own theory is Disney's well known dislike of giving out any more info than is absolutely necessary, even sometimes to their own detriment, but I have no personal knowledge of their reasoning.

On a side note - why are so many posters using this incident to castigate others about their interpretation of the signage, as if these guests are demanding to be allowed to wade, even at their own risk? This isn't a pool hopping or mug reuse issue. I take the posts on here and elsewhere to mean people feel empathy for this family's experience and shock that they might have been in a similar situation.

Bottom line, this family will have to live with it for the rest of their lives. They certainly don't need any of us telling them they could have done things differently - that soul crushing idea has already seared itself into their brains and hearts forever. If I could wrap them in my arms right now, I would.

 

[Gillyrose779]

So the title of this thread is
Gators at resorts...facts and wise tips
has there been any facts or wise tips given? Sorry - I'm too lazy to go through all the "fluff".

How about this tip. I have read before if you are in the grip of a croc or alligator your are in a desperate state as their mouth is difficult (impossible really) to open once shut. The mouths are easy to keep closed when shut though. I heard your best chance is to go for the eyes- pretty much gouge out their eyes b/c they have no defense for that. Thoughts??

Honestly I feel none of us will need this information but I thought I would try to add a tip to this thread.

 

[KBinCO]

There are some alarmists here.

Disney is as responsible for this as they are for hurricanes. They can not control Mother Nature. I don't think they were trying to hide that there were gators in the water. Many kids splashed safely in the water for years and years. Statistically that makes the likelihood of this incident to be like .00001% chance of happening. And man eating alligators? Gators so rarely attack humans. He wasn't even eaten. He was swept away and then drowned because a 2 year old doesn't stand a chance in deep water. Deadly gator attacks, out of the huge population of gators and the huge population of humans plus the even higher number of tourists, happen nearly never. This was a freak act of Mother Nature and once every 45 years, a terrible incident will happen.

I take my kids into the shark filled oceans on Florida beaches for 10 days every spring break. When we see sharks or hear of attacks, we feel sad for those people. It doesn't keep us from living our lives.

To think Disney can magically make itself immune to unlikely and freak accidents is a little ignorant.

This never would have happened if Disney didn't exist. This never would have happened if the family stayed in their room. But the one to blame for this attack is the gator. It did nothing wrong, but the gator is the reason this happened.

 

[boltjames]

So if Disney is responsible for this attack by a wild animal that happened on their property, does that mean that the states with beaches are responsible for attacks by sharks?

If I've got my kids swimming at Daytona Beach, if we are walking the rim of the Grand Canyon, if we're skiing back trails at Vail, if we're walking the Appalachian Trail, we understand and accept that there is a risk of an animal attack and we fully understand that we are invading nature, we are in an uncontrolled environment.

That is not the understanding or expectation at a man-made $700 a night luxury resort where children are happily encouraged to spend their night time frolicking on a beach, making s'mores, and watching The Little Mermaid on a big screen. No parent would think for a second that Walt Disney would put their children at risk by simply sitting in the sand near the water's edge. The assumption is that if there was a danger of an alligator attack, Disney would never put their guests in harm's way. The very lack of alligator warnings on the beach signs reinforces this belief as does the very fact that Disney allows, no, entices children to stay up after dark and sit at the edge of a lagoon while playing with other kids.

 

[ebclay]

There are some alarmists here.

Disney is as responsible for this as they are for hurricanes. They can not control Mother Nature. I don't think they were trying to hide that there were gators in the water. Many kids splashed safely in the water for years and years. Statistically that makes the likelihood of this incident to be like .00001% chance of happening. And man eating alligators? Gators so rarely attack humans. He wasn't even eaten. He was swept away and then drowned because a 2 year old doesn't stand a chance in deep water. Deadly gator attacks, out of the huge population of gators and the huge population of humans plus the even higher number of tourists, happen nearly never. This was a freak act of Mother Nature and once every 45 years, a terrible incident will happen.

I take my kids into the shark filled oceans on Florida beaches for 10 days every spring break. When we see sharks or hear of attacks, we feel sad for those people. It doesn't keep us from living our lives.

To think Disney can magically make itself immune to unlikely and freak accidents is a little ignorant.

This never would have happened if Disney didn't exist. This never would have happened if the family stayed in their room. But the one to blame for this attack is the gator. It did nothing wrong, but the gator is the reason this happened.

This is so true! I live in Southern California and there has been multiple shark sightings in previous weeks and beaches have been closed for short times. This cannot allow you to live in fear and not enjoy time with friends and family.

People still go on airplanes after countless plane related tragedies, ride in cars and buses, ride bikes, go to Disney and other theme parks. Tragic accidents can happen anywhere, because they are accidents.

I hope that the family can find some sort of peace and closure in the coming weeks.

 

[boltjames]

This never would have happened if Disney didn't exist. This never would have happened if the family stayed in their room. But the one to blame for this attack is the gator. It did nothing wrong, but the gator is the reason this happened.

Not sure where they all went when I need them, but yesterday we out-of-staters were scolded like little children by posters in here that every adult world-wide should know what every Floridian knows- that every body of water in Florida has alligators in them, that no Floridian parent in his right mind would allow their children to sit near a lake or a pond after sundown, that only a stupid parent would allow their children near water in an area where alligators are routinely spotted.

Well, here we are today, and all those rules ingrained in the minds of all parents in Florida apparently don't apply to the fine folks who run Disney World. You know, an area that has bodies of water, a place where children are encouraged to sit near a lake or pond after sundown, a place where no signs exist to educate non-Floridian's that alligators are a night time water threat, and in a location where scores of alligators are so frequently seen that they have a division of the company that does nothing but hunt these creatures down and remove them.

This was no act of nature, this was no freak lightning strike. This was preventable. No matter how small the risk may seem, it was easy to prevent. Start by not encouraging children to play near an alligator infested lake two hours after bedtime by hosting Disney resort events on a beach. Put up signs that clearly explain that alligators have frequently been sighted in the area. Inform the public of the danger, give them the option to take the risk. Disney played Russian roulette for years and they finally lost. And a poor family from Omaha is going to pay that price for generations.

 

[HopperFan]

I've been a big Disney fan and proponent going back 40 years now. I could live with their outrageous ticket prices, I could tolerate the boredom they've allowed to seep into the theme parks, I could live with the wasted weekend we spent at useless Disneyland Paris, I could control my anger over FastPass blocking my family out of key rides. I could deal with all of it because deep down I knew that Disney cared about families and they may have made some financial decisions that I didn't agree with but the special environment they created down in Orlando was still the best in the world for young families and I could turn a blind eye to all the rest as a result.

But this one has done it for me. I'm out. I cannot believe that for the better part of 20 years I've had my children on resort beaches feet away from man-eating alligators and Disney knew there was a risk and Disney did nothing about it. This isn't about lawsuits. Disney broke a promise to parents everywhere and the trust they've just lost is not coming back, not from me anyway. Someone somewhere made the decision that putting scary alligator warnings on signage was bad business, that bringing hundreds of children to a phony beach so they could sell s'mores kits for $5 during nighttime predator feeding time was the bigger priority. This is the final straw. That trip we were planning for my son's 5th birthday next year? That conference for 200 people that my wife authorizes to be hosted there every February? We'll take our business somewhere where they truly put families first.

And you and your wife are perfectly correct in choosing to vacation somewhere that meets your requirements and brings you pleasure. Everyone's vacations are special and priceless to them, and I am a firm believer that everyone needs to do what is right for them.

That does not mean what is right for them is right for everyone and what is right for me is right for you and what is right for you is right for anyone else.

Your view of Disney and their operation is your view. That's fine. Seems you have had negative views for a long time and this rare event has cemented it. That's fine. That doesn't mean that everyone and anyone else is wrong. That doesn't mean that families don't come first here or at Disney. Bad stuff happens EVERYWHERE, but I hope you find some place that is perfect ... for you.

 

[North of Mouse]

I've been a big Disney fan and proponent going back 40 years now. I could live with their outrageous ticket prices, I could tolerate the boredom they've allowed to seep into the theme parks, I could live with the wasted weekend we spent at useless Disneyland Paris, I could control my anger over FastPass blocking my family out of key rides. I could deal with all of it because deep down I knew that Disney cared about families and they may have made some financial decisions that I didn't agree with but the special environment they created down in Orlando was still the best in the world for young families and I could turn a blind eye to all the rest as a result.

But this one has done it for me. I'm out. I cannot believe that for the better part of 20 years I've had my children on resort beaches feet away from man-eating alligators and Disney knew there was a risk and Disney did nothing about it. This isn't about lawsuits. Disney broke a promise to parents everywhere and the trust they've just lost is not coming back, not from me anyway. Someone somewhere made the decision that putting scary alligator warnings on signage was bad business, that bringing hundreds of children to a phony beach so they could sell s'mores kits for $5 during nighttime predator feeding time was the bigger priority. This is the final straw. That trip we were planning for my son's 5th birthday next year? That conference for 200 people that my wife authorizes to be hosted there every February? We'll take our business somewhere where they truly put families first.

There is danger everywhere - did you hear about the mother and two small children killed in MD (near where we lived once) when a small plane crashed their home?? My point being that things like this and many other tragedies happen in very 'safe' places. We can't run/hide from all danger - just use common sense, and be aware in whatever situation/place you are in - that's the most we can do.

Staying away from Disney will not keep you safe, but hope that you have many enjoyable trips elsewhere if that is your choice. Disney cannot be responsible for gators or snakes, or many other animals/insects that are a natural in the wild - (gators in south - I'm from south LA - 'plenty' there). They do a great job of keeping most of them to a minimum in their huge park, but am sure now that 'gator' signs will soon be going up. And, yes, the child 'was' in the water splashing which I'm sure that time of night unfortunately sent a signal to the gator.

Actually, would not want to go in that dirty lake water myself during the day, definitely not at night when you can't see - near a sign that says No Swimming - deep drop off!!! I can't swim, but that still means 'me'!!

 

[KateD496]

I posted earlier about the numerous gators we saw at SOG last October but want to clarify my feelings based on the the opening sentence here which states " A simple sign warning people that there are alligators would do wonders" as being correct. Checking into the hotel you are not given any special information warning about gators like you may get when you are playing golf at either of the courses which are on both sides of the hotel. Both of the places where we saw gators (the paths leading to the poly and to the pool) are not necessarily utilized by golfers.
So seeing the signs at SOG which clearly warn about gators with an image and wording "Do not feed", "Beware of Alligators" DID make a difference in how we regarded the bodies of water. Although none of these bodies of water are tempting swimming locations, the ones in the back of the hotel in particular would be a temptation to go to the edge as there are fish and other wild life that you may want to get a closer look at. But again THE SIGNS MAKE YOU THINK TWICE.
One example is seeing 3-4 foot gator sunning itself on the edge of the water on the way to the pool which was about 12 yards from the path. There is only grass between you on path and gator at the edge of the water. The signs are located close to the path as to warn you not to go past them and you can see why this it is so.
So horrible what happened to this family

We stayed at SOG in March with a room facing the gazebo and a pond. I saw a mother with her small child standing at the edge of the pond right next to the sign warning about feeding the alligators...feeding the alligator! I was dumbfounded.

 

[Seeker615]

I cringe to think of the family who got their room next. Do you really think the maid sanitized that ice bucket enough that the next family could use ice from it??? Ugh!

The only time I will ever use any ice bucket is if they have the plastic liner I can put it in it. Or I bring my own plastic bag to put it in first. I have heard too many stories of what happens with those ice buckets...

 

[Funholiday]

There are some alarmists here.

Disney is as responsible for this as they are for hurricanes. They can not control Mother Nature. I don't think they were trying to hide that there were gators in the water. Many kids splashed safely in the water for years and years. Statistically that makes the likelihood of this incident to be like .00001% chance of happening. And man eating alligators? Gators so rarely attack humans. He wasn't even eaten. He was swept away and then drowned because a 2 year old doesn't stand a chance in deep water. Deadly gator attacks, out of the huge population of gators and the huge population of humans plus the even higher number of tourists, happen nearly never. This was a freak act of Mother Nature and once every 45 years, a terrible incident will happen.

I take my kids into the shark filled oceans on Florida beaches for 10 days every spring break. When we see sharks or hear of attacks, we feel sad for those people. It doesn't keep us from living our lives.

To think Disney can magically make itself immune to unlikely and freak accidents is a little ignorant.

This never would have happened if Disney didn't exist. This never would have happened if the family stayed in their room. But the one to blame for this attack is the gator. It did nothing wrong, but the gator is the reason this happened.

This is the thought of many people before a process called "discovery" occurs in lawsuits. If, in the investigation process, the other side discovers that Disney has no record of any gators ever coming on the beaches and there was no way a reasonable corporation would have thought that a gator could come on or near a beach and injure a child, then Disney should not be liable. There is no requirement of warning if there is not a reasonable risk of injury.

However, if there is testimony (employees or even previous guests) or documentation that gators have come on those beaches, have threatened guests in the the past, or maintenance workers have had close calls with gators many times (or perhaps even injuries) at or near the beaches and yet nothing was done to change the signage, then that is evidence that it would have been reasonable to warn guests. In warning consumers of hazardous or cancerous products you must provide a warning sufficient so consumers will appreciate the risk. "No swimming" signs if there is evidence (previously) that there is a risk of serious injury from gators on the beach does not allow the consumers to fully appreciate the risk.