Frozen Shoulder

[Music City Mama]

Who has had it? How long did you have it? Any tips/tricks to make it more bearable or go away quicker?

 

[bdcp]

Who has had it? How long did you have it? Any tips/tricks to make it more bearable or go away quicker?

I've never had it, but have you tried Physical Therapy?

 

[Meglen]

Oh boy.. um well I was told I had frozen shoulder 2020 from an injury in dec 2019 6month unable to lift my left arm , went to PT was told it was not frozen but my muscle were weak.. This made my neck and head be in horrendous pain when they tried to fix my shoulder. Had to stop going to PT and see some specialist got some shots to help with the head pain from trigger points being made from realigning everything. thousands of dollars with xrays and mris(no issues) and more cortisone shots than I could ever want.. and after almost 2 years I can raise my arm all the way but it still hurts. I really hope your issue is simple and an easy fix.

I am still trying to get past it. The last ortho I saw said it was frozen and put cortisone right in the spot this helped alot more than what all the other doctors did. It let me stretch and build muscle without pain. But I am now living with pinched nerves and constant knots in my opposite shoulder which radiates nerve pain to the face from the way the first PT tried to move me around.

 

[luv2cheer92]

I haven't had it, but I treat it all the time. Definitely see a PT. Probably not what you want to hear, but it generally takes quite a while to fully recover, up to a year in most cases.
However, this is easily the most often mis-diagnosed condition I see. I'd say about 75% of the time when a referral comes in with that as the diagnosis, that is not what it is. Its one of those things physicians like to label if they either don't have imaging or the imaging is inconclusive.

 

[tvguy]

My neighbor had a frozen shoulder. He was on a ladder cleaning his gutters when he slipped, grabbed the gutter to break his fall. Heard a pop from his shoulder. No more frozen shoulder, and he said it didn't hurt when he fell.

 

[J'aime Paris]

Google gua sha massage.
I had several when I was healing from a shoulder injury. I felt it helped....

 

[Music City Mama]

I haven't had it, but I treat it all the time. Definitely see a PT. Probably not what you want to hear, but it generally takes quite a while to fully recover, up to a year in most cases.
However, this is easily the most often mis-diagnosed condition I see. I'd say about 75% of the time when a referral comes in with that as the diagnosis, that is not what it is. Its one of those things physicians like to label if they either don't have imaging or the imaging is inconclusive.

I think I probably have it. About 4-6 weeks ago, I noticed my shoulder hurt when I slept on that side. Over the next couple of weeks, it got it a little painful hooking my bra, I figured I must have "pulled something". About 2 weeks ago, I could no longer hook my bra from the back and I had pain when moving my arm certain ways. I made an appointment for an orthopedist and saw him last week and he took x-rays while I was there. He tested my range of motion/resistance and I guess put all of that together along with my age (since I'm in the age range of people it seems to affect) and felt pretty confident that's what it was. He gave me a cortisone injection, wrote a prescription for an anti-inflammatory med and wrote orders for PT. He suggested 3x/week for 4 weeks but that's not happening. It's subject to the deductible which I'm nowhere close to meeting and the cheapest I can find is $100 per session. I am a big self-help person, though, so I've watched videos religiously and I think I can get away with 2-3 sessions of PT and just glean what I can from them and do exercises at home. I already do them all of the time since being diagnosed last week. Everything I've read is that even under the best circumstances, it will take a LONG time to go away. Fortunately, I'm not in pain unless I do something to move my arm a certain way. It doesn't hurt to raise it overhead, just motions like off to the side and behind me. I just hope I'm actually at the "frozen" stage and still not in the "freezing" stage.

 

[Music City Mama]

Google gua sha massage.
I had several when I was healing from a shoulder injury. I felt it helped....

Thank you!

 

[Meglen]

I think I probably have it. About 4-6 weeks ago, I noticed my shoulder hurt when I slept on that side. Over the next couple of weeks, it got it a little painful hooking my bra, I figured I must have "pulled something". About 2 weeks ago, I could no longer hook my bra from the back and I had pain when moving my arm certain ways. I made an appointment for an orthopedist and saw him last week and he took x-rays while I was there. He tested my range of motion/resistance and I guess put all of that together along with my age (since I'm in the age range of people it seems to affect) and felt pretty confident that's what it was. He gave me a cortisone injection, wrote a prescription for an anti-inflammatory med and wrote orders for PT. He suggested 3x/week for 4 weeks but that's not happening. It's subject to the deductible which I'm nowhere close to meeting and the cheapest I can find is $100 per session. I am a big self-help person, though, so I've watched videos religiously and I think I can get away with 2-3 sessions of PT and just glean what I can from them and do exercises at home. I already do them all of the time since being diagnosed last week. Everything I've read is that even under the best circumstances, it will take a LONG time to go away. Fortunately, I'm not in pain unless I do something to move my arm a certain way. It doesn't hurt to raise it overhead, just motions like off to the side and behind me. I just hope I'm actually at the "frozen" stage and still not in the "freezing" stage.

removed due to bad advice my apologies

 

[luv2cheer92]

I think I probably have it. About 4-6 weeks ago, I noticed my shoulder hurt when I slept on that side. Over the next couple of weeks, it got it a little painful hooking my bra, I figured I must have "pulled something". About 2 weeks ago, I could no longer hook my bra from the back and I had pain when moving my arm certain ways. I made an appointment for an orthopedist and saw him last week and he took x-rays while I was there. He tested my range of motion/resistance and I guess put all of that together along with my age (since I'm in the age range of people it seems to affect) and felt pretty confident that's what it was. He gave me a cortisone injection, wrote a prescription for an anti-inflammatory med and wrote orders for PT. He suggested 3x/week for 4 weeks but that's not happening. It's subject to the deductible which I'm nowhere close to meeting and the cheapest I can find is $100 per session. I am a big self-help person, though, so I've watched videos religiously and I think I can get away with 2-3 sessions of PT and just glean what I can from them and do exercises at home. I already do them all of the time since being diagnosed last week. Everything I've read is that even under the best circumstances, it will take a LONG time to go away. Fortunately, I'm not in pain unless I do something to move my arm a certain way. It doesn't hurt to raise it overhead, just motions like off to the side and behind me. I just hope I'm actually at the "frozen" stage and still not in the "freezing" stage.

Yes, it does take a long time. I understand deductibles can be a hindrance, but that's one of the biggest mistakes so many of my patients make. Pretty much no PTs listen to what the script says as far as diagnosis or frequency, we're doctors for a reason too and usually set our own plan of care. So don't think 3x/week is needed either. It can be once a week, once every few weeks, once a month, etc. But if you are only going to do a few sessions, be up front with your therapist about that. That way they can give you somewhat of a long-term guide of what to do when. The biggest sign of it not actually being frozen shoulder is if someone else can move it for you or if you can use your other arm to move it. Then it's usually tendon/impingement related. Frozen shoulder doesn't move, even with someone else doing it.

ETA: Also, $100/session is relatively cheap, so you likely aren't going to find it much less than that.

 

[luv2cheer92]

Just google the PT for frozen shoulder and get some bands.. its not worth the price.

I know I'm understandably biased, but that is quite possibly the worst advice I've ever read on the internet. Please, please, please whatever you do, do not do that.

 

[Meglen]

I know I'm understandably biased, but that is quite possibly the worst advice I've ever read on the internet. Please, please, please whatever you do, do not do that.

The OP said they cant afford PT.. so why is it bad advice to do something rather than nothing? The exorcises that both my PT gave me are quite basic in nature, watching some youtube videos and official help (PT legit just print these off ). You are correct PT would be best option but this is not a horrible idea. I went to PT learned what I needed than stoped going frankly they were hurting me more than helping.

 

[luv2cheer92]

The OP said they cant afford PT.. so why is it bad advice to do something rather than nothing?

They said they would do at least 2 or 3 sessions, which is better than nothing. There is a crazy amount of misinformation out there, and using bands is definitely not indicated for early on in the frozen shoulder recovery. But as I mentioned, it is a very, very frequently misdiagnosed condition, and doing things you just find on the internet can hurt it more instead of helping.

 

[Meglen]

They said they would do at least 2 or 3 sessions, which is better than nothing. There is a crazy amount of misinformation out there, and using bands is definitely not indicated for early on in the frozen shoulder recovery. But as I mentioned, it is a very, very frequently misdiagnosed condition, and doing things you just find on the internet can hurt it more instead of helping.

Well than both my PT were wrong, they both had me just using bands and massage >.< prolly why they didnt help. I edited my message above.

 

[Music City Mama]

removed due to bad advice my apologies

The OP said they cant afford PT.. so why is it bad advice to do something rather than nothing? The exorcises that both my PT gave me are quite basic in nature, watching some youtube videos and official help (PT legit just print these off ). You are correct PT would be best option but this is not a horrible idea. I went to PT learned what I needed than stoped going frankly they were hurting me more than helping.

I didn't see the original post before you edited it, but if it was just suggesting that I try to do some PT exercises at home, I have already been doing that. I can "afford" 12 sessions (per the doctor's orders), I just don't want to spend that much money on PT because I don't think that many sessions would be needed -- I'm not recovering from surgery or something where it's probably more important. But I'm open to any suggestions, so please don't apologize.

Yes, it does take a long time. I understand deductibles can be a hindrance, but that's one of the biggest mistakes so many of my patients make. Pretty much no PTs listen to what the script says as far as diagnosis or frequency, we're doctors for a reason too and usually set our own plan of care. So don't think 3x/week is needed either. It can be once a week, once every few weeks, once a month, etc. But if you are only going to do a few sessions, be up front with your therapist about that. That way they can give you somewhat of a long-term guide of what to do when. The biggest sign of it not actually being frozen shoulder is if someone else can move it for you or if you can use your other arm to move it. Then it's usually tendon/impingement related. Frozen shoulder doesn't move, even with someone else doing it.

ETA: Also, $100/session is relatively cheap, so you likely aren't going to find it much less than that.

Yes, for sure I'd be up-front with the PT about only doing a few sessions. I'm the type of person that would do whatever they told me to at home so hopefully between a couple of their sessions and listening to what they tell me, I will get better sooner rather than later. The $100 is including my discount through my insurance, and it's proving difficult to find a lower negotiated rate, so I'll be calling them this afternoon to get in at that place.

I'm interested in this statement, though:

The biggest sign of it not actually being frozen shoulder is if someone else can move it for you or if you can use your other arm to move it. Then it's usually tendon/impingement related. Frozen shoulder doesn't move, even with someone else doing it.

What do mean "doesn't move"? You mean move with a lot of pain or move at all? If I put both arms above my head, the fingertips of my affected arm are a few inches shorter than my good arm. If I pin my elbows to my sides and move my hands outward, my good arm goes to 90 degrees, but my affected arm about 75. If someone forcefully pulled my arm, I'm sure they could move it, but not without causing me excruciating pain. Any thoughts based on that info?

 

[luv2cheer92]

I didn't see the original post before you edited it, but if it was just suggesting that I try to do some PT exercises at home, I have already been doing that. I can "afford" 12 sessions (per the doctor's orders), I just don't want to spend that much money on PT because I don't think that many sessions would be needed -- I'm not recovering from surgery or something where it's probably more important. But I'm open to any suggestions, so please don't apologize.



Yes, for sure I'd be up-front with the PT about only doing a few sessions. I'm the type of person that would do whatever they told me to at home so hopefully between a couple of their sessions and listening to what they tell me, I will get better sooner rather than later. The $100 is including my discount through my insurance, and it's proving difficult to find a lower negotiated rate, so I'll be calling them this afternoon to get in at that place.

I'm interested in this statement, though:

The biggest sign of it not actually being frozen shoulder is if someone else can move it for you or if you can use your other arm to move it. Then it's usually tendon/impingement related. Frozen shoulder doesn't move, even with someone else doing it.

What do mean "doesn't move"? You mean move with a lot of pain or move at all? If I put both arms above my head, the fingertips of my affected arm are a few inches shorter than my good arm. If I pin my elbows to my sides and move my hands outward, my good arm goes to 90 degrees, but my affected arm about 75. If someone forcefully pulled my arm, I'm sure they could move it, but not without causing me excruciating pain. Any thoughts based on that info?

Doesn't move much at all, with or without pain. Like maybe 30-40 degrees flexion (180 degrees would be lifting your arm straight up by your ear), so not even lifting it to 90 degrees parallel to the floor. Maybe 10-15 degrees of external rotation (what you described as being at 75). Abduction is usually limited pretty significantly too (lifting arm out sideways). If you can lift your arm over your head, it is most likely not frozen shoulder. Though everyone is different.

 

[Meglen]

My first pt literally shook my shoulder blade of that arm and it helped alot I went from a 90 angle to almost able to lift it (she said my shoulder blade forgot how to work hah). But that was the most I could do with someone moving it untill they did the ultrasound to put the shot closer to the impinged area. (mine was left of the collar bone area but befor my rotator cuff )

 

[Music City Mama]

Doesn't move much at all, with or without pain. Like maybe 30-40 degrees flexion (180 degrees would be lifting your arm straight up by your ear), so not even lifting it to 90 degrees parallel to the floor. Maybe 10-15 degrees of external rotation (what you described as being at 75). Abduction is usually limited pretty significantly too (lifting arm out sideways). If you can lift your arm over your head, it is most likely not frozen shoulder. Though everyone is different.

Interesting, thanks for the info. I've been able to rotate and/or move a little more each day (by like centimeters), but I've been attributing that to the cortisone injection, but more so to the exercises I've doing (which I've been doing several times a day, every day). I'll report back with what the PT tells me after I see him or her.

 

[NotUrsula]

Just be aware that your PT may do more than just set you up with exercises. I developed a very stiff shoulder after a fall down a flight of concrete stairs in a parking garage (did not break any bones, but I was badly bruised up and had several severe scrapes); my Ortho said it was getting stiff because I was holding it stiff -- because I was hurting and didn't want to move it. The PT did ultrasound (which was prescribed by the Ortho), but also did several types of massage, including a process that involved a little stainless steel bar being moved up and down the muscle while pressing in quite hard. No way I could have done that on my own. (And it really helped.)

 

[DisBud]

I had frozen shoulder two years ago. I noticed when I went to swing a hammer, or a motion similar to that, my shoulder had very intense pain. Ortho did an Xray and diagnosed frozen shoulder with PT 4X week for 6 weeks.
I know you said you are against the PT, but the exercises I did there were secondary to the "stretching". That isn't the right term, it was rather like torture where the therapist used body weight to basically break apart the inflammation through "stretching". Then I would do some light exercises that really were not difficult, nor did I think were particularly helpful. When I was cut loose, he did show me some stretches I could do on my own and he told me to continue the only exercise that did seem to work that part of my shoulder.

I would definitely go at least once and be upfront with your plan so you are shown what may work at home. I have to say it was very painful during PT and I really don't think I would have pushed my shoulder that far on my own. But I was pain free by 6 months, so I do think it worked. My uncle is an Ortho surgeon and he concurred with the treatment plan, but he also said it may have resolved itself in 12-18 months.

Good luck!! It was not fun, I feel your pain!

ETA: I'm not trying to downplay the exercise part of recovery, I just really felt that the part that made the difference was the stretching. NO WAY I would have done that well on my own. The exercises after felt nice and easy!!