FP+ is now completely worthless if you are staying offsite.

[delmar411]

Big surprise. Really. OMG I didn't see this coming at all!!!!! Its my 30 day window, I sign in for my fast pass selections at midnight eastern time, but lo and behold everything good has "ended for the day". This includes: 1. 7DMT 2. Meet and Greet with Anna and Elsa 3. Enchanted Tales with Belle 4. Main Street Electrical Parade 5. Festival of Fantasy Parade So basically, unless you stay onsite, you will not get fast passes to anything really good, because the onsite peeps with their 60 day window get to pick and choose first. So now, after 9 years of multiple Disney trips a year, I am left with the left overs. Later baby. This is our last Disney trip. It was fun. Now it just sucks, and its a waste of money. Maybe we will manage to receive some leftover scraps and my daughter will be able to meet Anna and Elsa at the Christmas party or something.

Last I checked anyone can see the parades along the VERY expansive parade routes. You don't need a FP for any parade. And I wouldn't waste my FPs on enchanted tales with Belle or A&E so I don't consider either of those 'good' FPs.

Seems silly to think that those are the good FPs. I book same day only as a local and get everything I am after within the small window I desire to be at the park for a day. My good FPs are for things like RNRC, BTMR, Buzz, SM, etc.

 

[mesaboy2]

Last I checked anyone can see the parades along the VERY expansive parade routes. You don't need a FP for any parade. And I wouldn't waste my FPs on enchanted tales with Belle or A&E so I don't consider either of those 'good' FPs.

Seems silly to think that those are the good FPs. I book same day only as a local and get everything I am after within the small window I desire to be at the park for a day. My good FPs are for things like RNRC, BTMR, Buzz, SM, etc.

By my definition, "good" FPs are those that are most likely to save the most time. It is impossible to rank them based on appeal of the attraction itself, since that is different for every guest.

 

[delmar411]

By my definition, "good" FPs are those that are most likely to save the most time. It is impossible to rank them based on appeal of the attraction itself, since that is different for every guest.

Correct. Which means you cant call any of them 'good' FPs. Ranking by time saved is fine. But having a tantrum over FPs for parades and declaring your trip ruined because you don't have something that has only existed for about a year and half, is not. Everyone managed to watch the parades just fine before FP+ and magically continue to do so now that FP+ exists.

I will concede the suckiness of not being able to get 7DMT but it is what it is.

 

[mesaboy2]

Correct. Which means you cant call any of them 'good' FPs. Ranking by time saved is fine.

But having a tantrum over FPs for parades and declaring your trip ruined because you don't have something that has only existed for about a year and half, is not. Everyone managed to watch the parades just fine before FP+ and magically continue to do so now that FP+ exists.

Yes, I agree. Unless your favorite spot happens to be in the new FP area and now can't get them--admittedly a rare case.

 

[Laketravis]

Correct. Which means you cant call any of them 'good' FPs. Ranking by time saved is fine. But having a tantrum over FPs for parades and declaring your trip ruined because you don't have something that has only existed for about a year and half, is not. Everyone managed to watch the parades just fine before FP+ and magically continue to do so now that FP+ exists.

I will concede the suckiness of not being able to get 7DMT but it is what it is.

Yet that could be a very unfortunate harbinger of future guest reactions for Disney.

 

[delmar411]

Yes, I agree. Unless your favorite spot happens to be in the new FP area and now can't get them--admittedly a rare case.

Fair enough.

 

[mom2kazkids]

We are going at the end of November, and when our 60day FP+ window opened I was able to get 7DMT on the first day of our arrival without an issue and got it one other time in the trip.

 

[Luvchefmic]

I don't think off-siters should get any FP+s

Why should Disney reward you when you won't stay at their hotels?

People who stay at Disney hotels eat all their meals at Disney restaurants. They buy their souvenirs at Disney stores. Off-siters eat their meals off site, they buy their souvenirs at Target. Why should Disney reward you with any FP+?

You want to go to the parks, great. But you should have to wait in line for everything. The very few FP+s should be a benefit to those who are willing to stay on site and give Disney more of their money.

I'm thinking there is " buyers' remorse " over that DVC price tag/commitment ? Otherwise everything else stated is pure nonsense.

 

[mesaboy2]

I'm thinking there is " buyers' remorse " over that DVC price tag/commitment ? Otherwise everything else stated is pure nonsense.

In my opinion the World needs less division inside the parks, not more. (Kumbaya and all that stuff. )

 

[Ametista]

Last I checked anyone can see the parades along the VERY expansive parade routes. You don't need a FP for any parade. And I wouldn't waste my FPs on enchanted tales with Belle or A&E so I don't consider either of those 'good' FPs.

Seems silly to think that those are the good FPs. I book same day only as a local and get everything I am after within the small window I desire to be at the park for a day. My good FPs are for things like RNRC, BTMR, Buzz, SM, etc.

I just listed everything that was no longer available. The only FPs I wanted were A&E and 7DMT, which were on the list. We rarely even watch parades.

 

[5DisneyNuts]

I completely agree. It all comes down to choices. We choose to stay on site because we like it. We pay a lot more for the room than we would in most other places with similar quality. With 3 teenagers we make a choice not to do rope drop most days and with the old FP- system, that choice resulted in FPs being gone for TSM, and in some cases TT and Soarin. We could choose to stand in line or skip the ride - it is just the way it was.

As far as the planning is concerned, we pretty much know where we are going to be on any given day thanks to needing ADRs so it isn't much of an issue to book rides in advance. At least now I can get on rides that I might not have been able to on past trips without 90-120min waits.

For people choosing to stay off site, you can see the big attractions; make rope drop, or go standby.

Your ride problems can be solved by doing rope drop. There's really no need for a fp for MSEP or FFP, there are lots of places to watch this from. It's a huge overstatement to say that because 4 things you wanted weren't available, out of all the things there are to to at WDW, that you can't get anything.


But, bottom line is people staying on site pay a fortune to be there or put up with less than wonderful hotels in order to get the perks of being on site. You on the other hand, get to the perk of paying much less for what can be much better accommodations. Can't have it all.

 

[EvangelineG]

But you're discounting the fact that the accommodation charge is pretty big. We're booked in a one bedroom at VWL. That is the single biggest expense of our trip--more than tickets, more than dining, more even than our airfare (which Disney doesn't get a piece of...it's just for perspective). Unless you're buying $3000 worth of trinkets, our vacation spending at Disney is going to outpace you by quite a bit because of the accomodation charge.

The accommodation charge can be large and I am not arguing for a second that there should not be added value for those staying onsite. But consider an onsite guest staying at a value resort and eating QS (or with free dining, or going offsite to eat), vs an offsite family eating TS and signature dining, and paying for lots of extras and "trinkets". The Disney only expenditure of an offsite guest can exceed that of an onsite guest staying at a value resort quite easily. So by this logic, perks should only be offered to those at deluxe and moderate resorts? And these perks should be exactly commensurate to money spent? Perhaps with silver, gold and platinum magic bands to show CMs which level of service is warranted per guest? I am thinking that would not be a terribly popular direction.

So I am not discounting the HUGE premiums that some onsite guests pay for their accommodations, and definitely not saying that WDW should not offer extra value to onsite guests- onsite is their bread and butter, they are going to aggressively cultivate that market. What I am saying is that they have always walked a fine line between adding that extra magic for onsite guests and making everyone at the parks *feel* special and like they are having an equitable experience, both of which are smart from a business perspective. I feel like Disney has always been particularly brilliant at doing this in the past, but some of the new decisions regarding FP+ are pushing more towards the direction of offsite guests feeling shut out and second class ...which as an offsite guest I am watching warily.

 

[5DisneyNuts]

I don't really understand all the uproar. People are making it sound like off site guests won't be able to ride anything or watch parades/fireworks.

All that is happening is that the most popular attractions may not have availability at 30 days (just like my previous post where FP- were not available to me at 12N). Ok, wait in line, or get there at rope drop. Want a good spot for the parade or fireworks, get there early.

Being able to get FP+ at 60 days for on site guests is more like having extra park access via EMH or making ADRs at 180+10.

The accommodation charge can be large and I am not arguing for a second that there should not be added value for those staying onsite. But consider an onsite guest staying at a value resort and eating QS (or with free dining, or going offsite to eat), vs an offsite family eating TS and signature dining, and paying for lots of extras and "trinkets". The Disney only expenditure of an offsite guest can exceed that of an onsite guest staying at a value resort quite easily. So by this logic, perks should only be offered to those at deluxe and moderate resorts? And these perks should be exactly commensurate to money spent? Perhaps with silver, gold and platinum magic bands to show CMs which level of service is warranted per guest? I am thinking that would not be a terribly popular direction.

So I am not discounting the HUGE premiums that some onsite guests pay for their accommodations, and definitely not saying that WDW should not offer extra value to onsite guests- onsite is their bread and butter, they are going to aggressively cultivate that market. What I am saying is that they have always walked a fine line between adding that extra magic for onsite guests and making everyone at the parks *feel* special and like they are having an equitable experience, both of which are smart from a business perspective. I feel like Disney has always been particularly brilliant at doing this in the past, but some of the new decisions regarding FP+ are pushing more towards the direction of offsite guests feeling shut out and second class ...which as an offsite guest I am watching warily.

 

[jcemom]

But, what I wanted to share is I think we have unrealistic expectations at this point. To wait in line at WDW is something we have all done. I remember the last trip we got in line for Tinkerbell. Said it was a 15 minute wait. We waited and waited and waited some more. At the 30 minute mark my husband found someone to ask (she was in adventureland and no CM around.) Oh sorry, Tink had to take a break. She should be back in 15 minutes. Our total wait time ended up being 70 minutes for tinkerbell. We could have left but since we were first in line we figured we waited this long to get back in the line later would add up to the same thing. I think we've all experienced this on some ride. Where we waited over 60 minutes for something unexpected. So knowing ahead of time that you will have to wait 60 minutes for A&E, I'm just not seeing what the big deal is. I am sorry that you couldn't get it. But, we all only have 3 FP+ a day, so that means that most of us are going to wait for something.

I have never waited 60 minutes for anything. Actually, other than shows where we chose to show up early so we could get better seats, we have never even waited 20 minutes. By combining rope drop with the old FP system we never needed to wait. We also go at less crowded times of year, which makes a big difference. There is not one single ride at Disney I would be willing to stand in line 60 minutes to do, not one. If the lines are that long when we are there in December, and we can't get FP, then we won't be doing those rides lol. Meet and greets I am even less willing to wait for than rides. I managed to get FP for A&E for DD and friend in September, but if I didn't, she said they would skip them because she wasn't willing to wait more than 20 minutes for any character. My SIL has said the same of her November trip. She is willing to wait longer than I am for rides, but then she has not been to Disney every year like I have. She said there is a 20 minute cap on characters though.

The complaints about lack of FP+ availability at the MK started right after Labor Day, which coincided with the commencement of party season. I really think it's the parties, and thus all the early closures, that are wrecking havoc on FP+ availability right now. I'll be curious to see whether this FP+ situation resolves itself after party season ends.

You're probably right about the parties creating a lack of FP. That's a good many hours per day several days per week that are taken out of inventory.

As for accommodations charges, well, that varies greatly. We would never pay Disney prices for a one bedroom villa. They're outrageous, IMO. Most of the people I know will only stay in value resorts, so it isn't like they're paying an arm and a leg for the resort. The cost of their meals, tickets and souvenirs far exceeds the cost of the resort.

 

[cakebaker]

Wow - great way to twist some stats by using the one-day!!!

A better example would be three days, for Disney it's $290 but for Universal it's $175 plus you can't compare FP+ with what Universal has with front of line where you can go on every ride (apart from HP) - not just three!

Disney tickets are considerably more than Universal. It's crazy to suggest otherwise.

No intentional twist at all- I don't think you can actually compare anyway, but the only way to do it fairly is a per day cost. Disney's cost drops dramatically the more days you have.

I agree you can't compare fp+ to ftl but there's no comparison between Universal and what WDW offers either.

To try and compare is pointless. What Universal does in comparison to Disney is apples to oranges in almost any category.

 

[itchin2go]

Big surprise. Really. OMG I didn't see this coming at all!!!!! Its my 30 day window, I sign in for my fast pass selections at midnight eastern time, but lo and behold everything good has "ended for the day".
This includes:
1. 7DMT
2. Meet and Greet with Anna and Elsa
3. Enchanted Tales with Belle
4. Main Street Electrical Parade
5. Festival of Fantasy Parade

So basically, unless you stay onsite, you will not get fast passes to anything really good, because the onsite peeps with their 60 day window get to pick and choose first. So now, after 9 years of multiple Disney trips a year, I am left with the left overs.

Later baby. This is our last Disney trip. It was fun. Now it just sucks, and its a waste of money. Maybe we will manage to receive some leftover scraps and my daughter will be able to meet Anna and Elsa at the Christmas party or something.

I tried for SDMT at 60 days out and still had trouble.

 

[KimBean]

I have never waited 60 minutes for anything. Actually, other than shows where we chose to show up early so we could get better seats, we have never even waited 20 minutes. By combining rope drop with the old FP system we never needed to wait. We also go at less crowded times of year, which makes a big difference. There is not one single ride at Disney I would be willing to stand in line 60 minutes to do, not one. If the lines are that long when we are there in December, and we can't get FP, then we won't be doing those rides lol. Meet and greets I am even less willing to wait for than rides. I managed to get FP for A&E for DD and friend in September, but if I didn't, she said they would skip them because she wasn't willing to wait more than 20 minutes for any character. My SIL has said the same of her November trip. She is willing to wait longer than I am for rides, but then she has not been to Disney every year like I have. She said there is a 20 minute cap on characters though.

Ok. And I'm not saying that is usual for me either. We are rope drop to close people and I loved Legacy FP, my DH not so much because he was the runner. I didn't like criss crossing the park because our FP times were up. We also go in off times, either early Nov, early Dec or Jan but I have still waited past 20 minutes plenty of times. It is pretty much a habit to wait 60 minutes for any nighttime entertainment, even though I know you don't have to, we are just usually ready for a leg break and enjoy a snack while waiting. I also remember and went 4 times before Legacy FP ever existed. So, many changes have come, we probably will see more. I loved legacy, but never felt like my pre-1999 trips were ruined because I couldn't get in a faster line.

I'm curious how those that hate the unfairness of on-site guests getting at FP+ free reservations first feel about Universal's express pass system. It is only free for onsite guests and if you stay offsite you are charged money and very limited availability.

 

[cmullen]

We book our last minute weekend trips and are always successful in picking up popular fast passes. Just keep trying and times flexible! You will get what you need!

 

[EvangelineG]

I don't really understand all the uproar. People are making it sound like off site guests won't be able to ride anything or watch parades/fireworks.

All that is happening is that the most popular attractions may not have availability at 30 days (just like my previous post where FP- were not available to me at 12N). Ok, wait in line, or get there at rope drop. Want a good spot for the parade or fireworks, get there early.

Being able to get FP+ at 60 days for on site guests is more like having extra park access via EMH or making ADRs at 180+10.

Uproar? I think you are picking the wrong person to quote in context of an "uproar". All I said was I am watching the direction Disney is taking with FP+ and offsite guests warily. Somebody call the riot police!

 

[jcemom]

Ok. And I'm not saying that is usual for me either. We are rope drop to close people and I loved Legacy FP, my DH not so much because he was the runner. I didn't like criss crossing the park because our FP times were up. We also go in off times, either early Nov, early Dec or Jan but I have still waited past 20 minutes plenty of times. It is pretty much a habit to wait 60 minutes for any nighttime entertainment, even though I know you don't have to, we are just usually ready for a leg break and enjoy a snack while waiting. I also remember and went 4 times before Legacy FP ever existed. So, many changes have come, we probably will see more. I loved legacy, but never felt like my pre-1999 trips were ruined because I couldn't get in a faster line.

I'm curious how those that hate the unfairness of on-site guests getting at FP+ free reservations first feel about Universal's express pass system. It is only free for onsite guests and if you stay offsite you are charged money and very limited availability.

Sorry, I don't think it's unfair at all that onsite guests get to make their FP+ sooner. Of course, I always stay onsite so that benefits me. I was always the runner, LOL, so I know how he feels, but I loved legacy FP and am not a fan of FP+ so much. I do think it's useful for arrival day, but that's about it. I don't hate it, but I don't like it.

I don't think I can compare Universal's system to Disney's though. They're just too different.