Fond memories of being broke

[jevs]

My dad grew up in the slums of Melbourne as the second youngest kid with 6 sisters. He is fond of telling stories about doing his own dental care when he was a child due to the family not having any money for trips to the dentist. Once he had an abscess and fixed it by ramming a screwdriver into the tooth. I grew up in a family that took me to the dentist every 6 months regardless of it I needed it or not. By my dads standards I've never been poor, and I've never been broke either. But plenty of times I've mismanaged money by buying too many pairs of shoes.

I have an abundance of empathy for people doing it tough though. That isn't something you learn by being poor, it's the values that are installed in you when young OR you learn as you age.

 

[DawnM]

I think this is another important point! When everyone around you is poor, you don't feel "different". During the Depression, you could look around and see that pretty much everyone was in the same boat as you, maybe worse. Nowadays, the "lifestyles of the rich and famous" are right in front of us all the time - with TV, social media, etc. It's a lot easier to feel like everyone is supposed to have that and wonder why you don't.

You know what is interesting about the Great Depression?

Most of the unemployment was around the 10-15% mark. It did get up to almost 25% at one time between 1932 and 1934, but people make it sound like everyone was out of work. 75% at least were employed. They may have lost a lot in the banks, but they were still working.

My dad came from a family that were never out of work. They were frugal and saved, but they were never down and out. They were highly educated and did well. My mother came from abject poverty. Her father died at a young age, her mother never had any marketable skills, they ate cornbread and beans and wore hand me downs and had 2 dresses each to their names.

I don't know why I am rambling about this, but when you said Great Depression, it made me start looking up statistics. My father's family were never out of work.

 

[luvsJack]

What I'm saying is that "what it was like" is a complex thing. There are good times and there are bad times, always. And yes, we can take valuable lessons from the hard times. We can look back with nostalgia and fondness at the hard times we overcame. But, it's important not to sugar-coat the past in such a veneer of nostalgia, that we start insisting that young people who haven't deliberately gone and sought out a facsimile of those hard times are missing out on valuable life experiences.

Because, I guarantee, VERY few people would voluntarily return to those hard times. Almost no one ever says, "You know, that was a simpler, happier time. Let's donate all our worldly good to charity and do it all again!"

(Yes, a few people actually do give up everything for religious reasons, and that's awesome. But it also requires a social support network, ie, a monastery or a church or a society that respects the old holy man with his begging bowl.)

The real danger, when nostalgia takes over and people refuse to see anything but the good, is that it can absolve us of any feeling of responsibility for those folks who are struggling right now. "Being poor wasn't so bad. We had fun!" It makes us feel we don't need to do anything for the poor. If they're unhappy, it's probably just because they don't have the right attitude. After all, we can say from personal experience that it wasn't so bad.

I don't know, I think it depends on what kind of hard times you are referring to.

Poverty like my mom grew up in, would be terrifying to most people today. But then most today in that situation could get assistance so wouldn't be as bad off.

But does it help someone grow if they have to pool money for pizza or use a box for an end table? Maybe. Seeing the struggles my own kids had at one time, I see how it made them determined to have something better.

I don't agree that looking back fondly keeps anyone from wanting to help others. I think that is more about what you are taught. Mom used to talk about how grandma would take some of her precious homegrown vegetables to neighbors who had illness or worse luck or whatever happen. Mom was taught that there are always people that have it worse than you do and you should try to help.

 

[Magpie]

I don't know, I think it depends on what kind of hard times you are referring to.

Poverty like my mom grew up in, would be terrifying to most people today. But then most today in that situation could get assistance so wouldn't be as bad off.

But does it help someone grow if they have to pool money for pizza or use a box for an end table? Maybe. Seeing the struggles my own kids had at one time, I see how it made them determined to have something better.

I don't agree that looking back fondly keeps anyone from wanting to help others. I think that is more about what you are taught. Mom used to talk about how grandma would take some of her precious homegrown vegetables to neighbors who had illness or worse luck or whatever happen. Mom was taught that there are always people that have it worse than you do and you should try to help.

I agree - I do think what you're taught has a huge influence.

So, whether your parents pay for your phone, or allow you to live rent-free, or pay your way through college, or only cheer from the sidelines as you figure out a way to pay for everything yourself... your character and compassion, maturity and ability to adapt and make the best of difficult situations, are all going to come back to a combination of upbringing, life experience, and whatever qualities you happen to have been born with (such as intelligence, flexibility, optimism, etc).

 

[lizabu]

I think this is another important point! When everyone around you is poor, you don't feel "different". During the Depression, you could look around and see that pretty much everyone was in the same boat as you, maybe worse. Nowadays, the "lifestyles of the rich and famous" are right in front of us all the time - with TV, social media, etc. It's a lot easier to feel like everyone is supposed to have that and wonder why you don't.

I think this is true. My DH talks fondly about the days when he was growing up in another country and they would get crates of clothes from the UN and they were so happy if they got shoes. But everyone was poor so they were in it together. When I grew up most of the kids had the cool clothes etc and k wore hand me downs so I felt different from everyone else and that can probably make it harder to be poor.

 

[NotUrsula]

It's also about looking back fondly on your youth, when you were resilient enough not to care so much about living hand to mouth. Aging has a way of magnifying discomfort.

 

[lakelandgal70]

I don't have fond memories of our lean times but I am thankful for them cause it makes me appreciate all the good things that have come our way. I will never forgot what it was like to have to eat Hamburger Helper or stretch casseroles for the week. Or having to eat at my parents cause we couldn't afford groceries.

 

[mnrose]

You know what is interesting about the Great Depression?

Most of the unemployment was around the 10-15% mark. It did get up to almost 25% at one time between 1932 and 1934, but people make it sound like everyone was out of work. 75% at least were employed. They may have lost a lot in the banks, but they were still working.

My dad came from a family that were never out of work. They were frugal and saved, but they were never down and out. They were highly educated and did well. My mother came from abject poverty. Her father died at a young age, her mother never had any marketable skills, they ate cornbread and beans and wore hand me downs and had 2 dresses each to their names.

I don't know why I am rambling about this, but when you said Great Depression, it made me start looking up statistics. My father's family were never out of work.

The unemployment rate is a bit misleading because back then, more than 20% of Americans were farmers. Add that 20% (many of them who were barely eking by) to the almost 25% unemployment in 1932, and you've got a very dire picture. Technically, farmers are never "unemployed" although they went through some very lean years in the 1930's (my father tells some interesting stories of those years). Today, farmers account for 2% or less of the work force.

 

[minkydog]

There aren't a lot of fond memories of growing up poor, being on welfare, having social service organizations giving us Christmas presents that weren't appropriate to our ages, and eating those fat lima beans at every meal. Sorry.

But there are two instances during my married life when we were dead broke and they ARE fond memories. The first one was right after we married and moved to Atlanta for our first real adult jobs. DH was a teacher then and he wasn't going to get paid until the end of the month. We had juuuust enough money to get a 1BR apartment and turn on the utilities. We had very little furniture--a bed, a dresser, a table and chairs, and a 13" B&W TV. We didn't run the A/C or turn on the lights except after the sun went down. One time a church group visited us and we all had to sit around on the bare floor to talk. We ate a lot of pintos & rice and mac & cheese. We were never so glad to see a paycheck in our life! Even then, it took several months and a small loan from DHs sister before we could afford a couch, tables, and lamps.

The second instance was a little sadder. We only had 2 kids and DH was between jobs at Christmas. We literally had no extra money for presents. My siblings found out and told my mother. About 2 weeks later we received a big box from my sisters, a check from my brother, and a big box from my mother. The boxes contained Christmas cookies, pancake mix and syrup, homemade Chex mix, a couple of balls, some flashlights, some stocking stuffers, a couple of games, and a package of candy canes (we were that broke.) With the check we bought DS (then 9) a basketball hoop, a hobby horse for DD (then 2), and a pair of shoes for each kid. A friend stopped by with a small turkey, stuffing, green beans, and mashed potatoes. One of the neighbors threw in a white bear for DD, too. When the kids came downstairs on Christmas Day they were so happy. I cried and I was so grateful for my friends, siblings, and mom for stepping up and providing my kids with Santa Claus and a good Christmas meal. Ever since then we have provided for other kids, mostly in foster care, by giving them new coats & shoes, craft supplies, books, and at least one toy. And candy canes.

 

[stitchfan75]

I have zero fond memories of my family's financial situation as a young child, one that landed me in foster care and then being moved across the country to live with my dad who I had only met twice before.
I also would not wish upon either of my children being a poor young adult. I had a friend that had to live 7 people to a one bedroom apartment (yes I realize that's illegal) and ended up pregnant at 18. I don't think there is anything "character building" about borrowing money from friends just so you can eat that day. Would you tell a homeless person that what they are going through is just building character and that they will look fondly upon these days when it's over? If it's ever over?
Poverty is a huge problem in our country, there is nothing cute or funny about it. There is a far cry difference between being a young adult with a job and learning how to manage your money and ACTUALLY being poor. I get very irritated with dh when he complains about us being "poor" because he couldn't go out and buy something he wanted. Sweetie we can go to WDW, have a house, two cars, and jobs...**** and sit down. He came from a upper middle class family and never wanted for anything, I came from the exact opposite.

 

[Magpie]

I have zero fond memories of my family's financial situation as a young child, one that landed me in foster care and then being moved across the country to live with my dad who I had only met twice before.
I also would not wish upon either of my children being a poor young adult. I had a friend that had to live 7 people to a one bedroom apartment (yes I realize that's illegal) and ended up pregnant at 18. I don't think there is anything "character building" about borrowing money from friends just so you can eat that day. Would you tell a homeless person that what they are going through is just building character and that they will look fondly upon these days when it's over? If it's ever over?
Poverty is a huge problem in our country, there is nothing cute or funny about it. There is a far cry difference between being a young adult with a job and learning how to manage your money and ACTUALLY being poor. I get very irritated with dh when he complains about us being "poor" because he couldn't go out and buy something he wanted. Sweetie we can go to WDW, have a house, two cars, and jobs...**** and sit down. He came from a upper middle class family and never wanted for anything, I came from the exact opposite.

I guess the question for you would be... if your husband had to struggle at some point, and if he'd had to want for things, would he have a more realistic view of your current financial situation?

This thread has led to some very interesting discussions in our household. By some of the descriptions here, when my husband and I were young and just starting out, we were "poor". But when I asked him what he thought of that, he said, "We were NEVER poor!" and that led us down the road to trying to figure out what "poor" means.

I knew a very rich man who once complained (in front of all of us minimum wage employees) about being "poor" because he didn't have enough liquidity to buy 20 acres of prime BC forest on a whim. At the time I thought he was an idiot, but now I know he likely just didn't know any better. Would a year or two as a "starving student" have given him perspective? Maybe. But, I'm thinking probably not. He lives in a different reality, entirely.

Poor, as far as I can tell, isn't being unable to afford 20 acres of trees. It isn't having to save for items, or choose between the things you want. It isn't eating ramen, either. Or having a tiny apartment. It isn't even running out of money for food at the end of the month (because that was me as a young single girl and I sure didn't feel poor - I was having the time of my life!).

I suspect that when you've got hope for the future, good health, youth, and friends in the same situation as you, you're almost never truly "poor". But that's not the same as saying that poverty is just a state of mind. I wouldn't, in a million years, dare to tell any of the people I know who are struggling with poverty that it's "all in your head". (Although I do sometimes enjoy shouting, "Turn that frown upside down!" at a very dear clinically depressed friend on disability. It makes her SOOOOO mad! )

When you're older, sicker, possibly with dependents to support, still without a safety net, and still just a step from disaster, realizing you'll never achieve your potential - or even the financial security you've seen your peers achieve - then you may very well be poor, even though you might be living in a slightly larger apartment and have slightly nicer furniture than that not-poor college student.

There's something really crushing about losing the rat race, about being left behind as everyone you know gets married, buys homes, goes on vacations and begins looking ahead to comfortable retirements. It's similar to being the one kid in your class who can't afford nice clothes, who gets left behind when the rest of the class goes on school trips, and who doesn't ever get the kind of cool toys they see the other kids playing with. So, certainly, isolation is a key component of poverty.

In the end, though, I think if someone feels like their adult children need to experience some financial struggles in order to appreciate what they have in life... they're probably starting WAY too late. They needed to start teaching them these lessons back when they were toddlers.

 

[Katy Belle]

Luckily, I've never lived in poverty. Growing up we didn't have lots of $, but we got by. Our vacations were powered by our old station wagon, not planes, and I have great memories of those.

As a young adult... I was in college, and my loan hadn't come through yet. Food service cut off my meal card. I have fond memories of my saltine and peanut butter diet for those 2 weeks. Around the same time, I remember putting $0.75 worth of gas in my tank. I just needed to get home, and that was all I had.

As a young married couple we scrimped and saved together. It might not have been 'fun' , but it was a challenge to make the $ stretch to the end of the month. I have fond memories of those days.