Florida Gov. Bans vaccine passports

[DisneyJamieCA]

Sounds just like the experts, they keep changing what we are to do because they don't really know and they don't have all the answers. They change it as they learn more or as their agenda sees fit. I don't understand why after a person is fully vaccinated they still have to wear a mask. The CDC said on March 30 that fully vacinated persons no longer carry the virus but then they walked it back on 4/2/21...This is why there are so many questions and so much frustration.

Actually they didn’t say that. Within that same interview, they said 90% after the second shot. Just because people ran with a headline doesn’t mean anything changed.

But I was talking about that poster in this thread that is only 2 days old. Changing what they’re saying to try to continue their narrative is the problem. So you’re comparing apples & oranges.

 

[tink2424]

And I hope yours stay safe and healthy also! Can't agree with your other part tho about there are risks of vaccine or not getting being similar, every single study I have seen says otherwise that the risks of NOT getting vaccine and getting Covid are much worse than any small side effects from the vaccines. I also know people that have long term issues from it, including not only physical but mental anxiety anger issues. My question for you is you said you had first shot but got Covid correct? What vaccine did you get, and can you tell me how long was it when you got Covid from when you got vaccine? I know some countries and the US also has at least discussed holding off on the second until all are vaccinated. I also saw that new variants are better treated if you get the second vaccine.

I didn't get the vaccine at all. Right now I don't have plans to but I never say never so possibly in the future I would. I got COVID in March of 2020 right before everything locked down. So well before vaccines and about a month and a half before masks were even recommended.

Also, I didn't say the risks are similar. I said that for both groups - the vaccinated and those that get COVID - that the percentage that will have bad outcomes are both very small and so each person has to make a choice for them. The vast majority that get COVID have no more than a mild cold and recover. The same is with vaccines. The problem is for the small minority that get severe outcomes or even die in both groups. So there is risk no matter what you do and everyone will need to way that risk for themselves.

 

[tink2424]

You conveniently left off the next paragraph. This part was important.

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But discussing things with you has become difficult because you change the goal posts. First, you said people who had it naturally shouldn’t get the vaccine at all. Then you changed it to shouldn’t get it within 3 months of the having the infection. Then you said you just don’t want it to be mandated. Those are three VERY different statements.

I don’t think you and will ever agree, especially when I take in comments you’ve made on other threads about vaccines, so I think it’s best we leave this debate here (or have the final word, but know that I’m done discussing this part of the conversation).

I agree we will never agree. And just because the sample size is small doesn't invalidate the conclusions of the piece. You are just cherry picking what is being said and making absolute statements. I have actually been very consistent on my stance.

1. I never said anyone shouldn't get the vaccine. I said it should be a decision that is made by the person in consultation with their doctor.

2. I also offered another point of view that stated if you have had a recent infection (recent was never defined so I used the 3 month mark as a starting point since most health officials agree immunity lasts at least that long) you should probably not have the vaccine as it could be dangerous based on the article I supplied.

3. Of course I feel like it shouldn't be mandate based on the fact that it is a medical procedure and we know it does have harmful effects for SOME.

These are not different things and are not different from what I said initially. I'm all for anyone who wants to take the vaccine to have it and I'm genuinely happy for them. I also truly hope from the bottom of my heart that there are no long term side effects of that decision as I see the possibilities for this technology as being good for society if it can truly be found to be safe.

As such when it relates to a vaccine passport we need to have alternatives to just having a vaccine like taking natural immunity or some form of exemption process. And in fact that is what New York is doing with their vaccine passport and it is likely to be implemented into anything that gets implemented at a country to country basis.

So maybe just stop attacking me as if I am saying horrible things and just agree to disagree.

 

[Minerva Mouse]

Now lets toss this into the mix.

Headline
Florida governor announces lawsuit against federal government, CDC over cruise industry shutdown

https://www.wesh.com/article/florida-cruise-industry-lawsuit/36063885

 

[TwoMisfits]

I didn't get the vaccine at all. Right now I don't have plans to but I never say never so possibly in the future I would. I got COVID in March of 2020 right before everything locked down. So well before vaccines and about a month and a half before masks were even recommended.

Also, I didn't say the risks are similar. I said that for both groups - the vaccinated and those that get COVID - that the percentage that will have bad outcomes are both very small and so each person has to make a choice for them. The vast majority that get COVID have no more than a mild cold and recover. The same is with vaccines. The problem is for the small minority that get severe outcomes or even die in both groups. So there is risk no matter what you do and everyone will need to way that risk for themselves.

If I were in your shoes, I might follow the studies now being done by Pfizer and Moderna for recovered Covid patients and vaccines - they are testing if single dose offerings are the best bet for folks in your shoes, and some of the studies are being completed as we speak...it might give you incentive to drop in for a shot this summer if it's one and done, and protects you better...

https://www.medpagetoday.com/meetingcoverage/croi/91620https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/...d-19-vaccine-enough-after-covid-19-infection/

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

I didn't get the vaccine at all. Right now I don't have plans to but I never say never so possibly in the future I would. I got COVID in March of 2020 right before everything locked down. So well before vaccines and about a month and a half before masks were even recommended.

Also, I didn't say the risks are similar. I said that for both groups - the vaccinated and those that get COVID - that the percentage that will have bad outcomes are both very small and so each person has to make a choice for them. The vast majority that get COVID have no more than a mild cold and recover. The same is with vaccines. The problem is for the small minority that get severe outcomes or even die in both groups. So there is risk no matter what you do and everyone will need to way that risk for themselves.

Oh ok, I may have read another's and thought it was yours.

 

[MillauFr]

No shock really.....

Online Scammers Have a New Offer for You: Vaccine Cards - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

 

[sam_gordon]

No shock really.....

Online Scammers Have a New Offer for You: Vaccine Cards - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Yup. Never thought that would happen.

 

[tink2424]

If I were in your shoes, I might follow the studies now being done by Pfizer and Moderna for recovered Covid patients and vaccines - they are testing if single dose offerings are the best bet for folks in your shoes, and some of the studies are being completed as we speak...it might give you incentive to drop in for a shot this summer if it's one and done, and protects you better...

https://www.medpagetoday.com/meetingcoverage/croi/91620https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/...d-19-vaccine-enough-after-covid-19-infection/

Thanks for the info! I had actually seen a few articles suggesting that only one shot may be needed if you have had COVID. I'm glad they are looking at this aspect.

 

[NYCgrrl]

No shock really.....

Online Scammers Have a New Offer for You: Vaccine Cards - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Read that this morning and the first thing that popped into my head was : holograms. Now I don’t know about the cost aspect of implementation but they sure got enough on plastic cards now.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

8 colleges & growing (saw on Twitter it’s 14 now) are requiring students to be vaccinated upon return to campus.

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news...s-04-08-21/h_a87ce2b02cafd15f058241317c8f5081

 

[RamblingMad]

Now lets toss this into the mix.

Headline
Florida governor announces lawsuit against federal government, CDC over cruise industry shutdown

https://www.wesh.com/article/florida-cruise-industry-lawsuit/36063885

Watch the Last Cruise on HBO Max. Then, ask yourself: do you really want to take the risk?

 

[Starwarsfan2]

I have.

But in case that isn’t enough, here is info from both the CDC & Mayo Clinic. Also info from Advisory.com about natural immunity not protecting against variants.


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ETA: we now know that the vaccines do protect against many of the variants.

A lot of mays and mights in those articles.

 

[kdonnel]

Watch the Last Cruise on HBO Max. Then, ask yourself: do you really want to take the risk?

Yes

 

[erin1715]

Yes

Same.

 

[godisney14]

No shock really.....

Online Scammers Have a New Offer for You: Vaccine Cards - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

In addition to just being able to tell your medical provider that you got the vaccine and put into your medical records without any need for proof, a quick Google search can very easily just point you to high quality vaccine card templates. Print them out and it will look equally good as photocopied versions of originals. No need for anyone to spend money on these types of scams.

Definitely not advocating falsifying, but pointing out how ineffective the idea of a vaccine passport is.

Edited to add: I’m not totally against the idea of a vaccine passport. Just that it’s not feasible (yet) using these vaccine cards, which were originally meant to be reminder cards for the second dose. I would be for a vaccine passport if it was more formally processed like travel passports. But, such coordination would need to be done at the national level and all things right now, including the statement from WH and various state governors, make that idea a pipe dream.

 

[godisney14]

If I were in your shoes, I might follow the studies now being done by Pfizer and Moderna for recovered Covid patients and vaccines - they are testing if single dose offerings are the best bet for folks in your shoes, and some of the studies are being completed as we speak...it might give you incentive to drop in for a shot this summer if it's one and done, and protects you better...

https://www.medpagetoday.com/meetingcoverage/croi/91620https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/...d-19-vaccine-enough-after-covid-19-infection/

Uhh... the discussion from that was not whether a single dose is the “best bet.” They were saying that one dose is at least better than nothing, and, of course, two is better than one. And, just to note, their study was most likely not tested against any VOC given how low the cases are in the US. Although, VOC incidence is growing quickly now since the last week or so.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Uhh... the discussion from that was not whether a single dose is the “best bet.” They were saying that one dose is at least better than nothing, and, of course, two is better than one.

I believe the topic of conversation with the links was patients who have previously had confirmed covid and their immune system response. Remember the data reflecting the immune system response for those with covid was something like 10X the amount of antibodies? That's what I believe the poster was talking about since the person they quoted said they had covid in March albeit of 2020. They are looking into whether a single dose would be more appropriate. The regiment is still 2 doses at the moment (excluding J&J) irrespective of prior covid infection or not. That does not mean that will be the case in the future. I would agree that the wording of "single dose offerings" is not really the accurate way. It's more what does that single dose contain and if it's more appropriate to give than to recommend 2 doses to those who previously had confirmed covid.

 

[godisney14]

I believe the topic of conversation with the links was patients who have previously had confirmed covid and their immune system response. Remember the data reflecting the immune system response for those with covid was something like 10X the amount of antibodies? That's what I believe the poster was talking about since the person they quoted said they had covid in March albeit of 2020. They are looking into whether a single dose would be more appropriate. The regiment is still 2 doses at the moment (excluding J&J) irrespective of prior covid infection or not. That does not mean that will be the case in the future. I would agree that the wording of "single dose offerings" is not really the accurate way. It's more what does that single dose contain and if it's more appropriate to give than to recommend 2 doses to those who previously had confirmed covid.

I understand what you’re trying to say. But, my point still stands....Also, the following excerpt is from the article linked:
They found that those who’d never been infected by SARS-CoV-2 developed antibodies at low levels within 9 to 12 days of receiving their first dose of vaccine.
But in 41 people who tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 antibodies prior to getting the first shot, the immune response looked strikingly different. They generated high levels of antibodies within just a few days of getting the vaccine.

There’s the limitation to that study based on the linked article. This just looked at titer between days 9 and 12 post first dose. Of course, logically and realistically from all studies done so far, titer shows insufficiency after just one dose, and especially just a week to week and half after either first or second dose (more so after just the first).

Besides, everyone is still waiting to see how titer translates into real world efficacy, especially with VOCs, which are not yet abundant in the US yet.

On a side note, if Israel is to be believed, which many people have in the past, the latest data on Pfizer’s vaccine shows it to be much less effective against B.1.351 than B.1.1.7 breakthrough. This was also described in the results from J&J’s own study.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I understand what you’re trying to say. But, my point still stands....Also, the following excerpt is from the article linked:
They found that those who’d never been infected by SARS-CoV-2 developed antibodies at low levels within 9 to 12 days of receiving their first dose of vaccine.
But in 41 people who tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 antibodies prior to getting the first shot, the immune response looked strikingly different. They generated high levels of antibodies within just a few days of getting the vaccine.

There’s the limitation to that study based on the linked article. This just looked at titer between days 9 and 12 post first dose. Of course, logically and realistically from all studies done so far, titer shows insufficiency after just one dose, and especially just a week to week and half after either first or second dose (more so after just the first).

Besides, everyone is still waiting to see how titer translates into real world efficacy, especially with VOCs, which are not yet abundant in the US yet.

On a side note, if Israel is to be believed, which many people have in the past, the latest data on Pfizer’s vaccine shows it to be much less effective against B.1.351 than B.1.1.7 breakthrough. This was also described in the results from J&J’s own study.

Respectfully I'm not trying anything. I'm just explaining what the poster was talking about. 2 isn't necessarily better than 1 just because 2 is greater than 1. Gardasil was 3 shots but now it's 2 or 3 depending on circumstances most notably age. This is because they studied the protection levels over time and found that the antibody levels for younger patients was just as good if not better with just 2 doses than 3 in comparison to those slightly older to now the upper age limit in which 3 doses is still recommended. Regardless they are and they should be studying the dose regiment based on all sorts of variables just like J&J was looking into 2 doses instead of 1. I'm not saying here's the definite evidence nor am I ever advocating for people to only get 1 dose when the current regiment is 2 I've been pretty clear on that stance over on the CDC thread. Was just trying to explain why the poster mentioned what they did to that specific other poster who previously had covid I wasn't even going into variants or other stuff.