Fingerprint or scan of 3-9 year olds at WDW

[mikedoyleblogger]

That raises the very interesting question (to me) of whether the use of WDW tickets by someone other than the original named person is actually "fraud" in the legal sense. Breach of contract no doubt and grounds for denial of entry and cancellation of the ticket ... but but it's arguably not provable as fraud in a criminal court. I doubt for example that in spite of many thousands of breaches of these terms there has ever been a single change of fraud laid or even threatened, let alone proved. The use of well-defined legal term which has serious consequences in a type of case that is and would never result in charges and conviction is rather sloppy and careless. Fear mongering in other words.

It would be interesting to know if Fox inserted the word "fraud" or if they got it from a Disney press release.

The fraud isn't using someone else's ticket. The fraud is the cottage industry of people deceptively selling partially used, non-transferable tickets on Craigslist to unsuspecting guests in the first place. That's what Disney (on both coasts) is trying to stop.

 

[sachilles]

I suppose it depends on the state, but rather than fraud, it's considered theft of services.

 

[PabloMax]

We were at WDW last week and both of my kids had their fingers scanned on first entry. Had no idea this was something new and was surprised to see all the news coverage the past couple of days.

Anyway, when we came back the next day, neither kid's finger was able to get the scanner to work. The CM's intervened and had my wife use her finger instead of theirs, which worked fine for the rest of the trip.

Of course, if an adult's finger is used, that does leave a little room to pull a fast one within a family or group, but I guess the issues Disney is trying to prevent are more what Mike is describing above.

 

[TheNotSoEvilQueen]

Last weekend they asked to attach my fingerprint to my 4 year olds pass. Now I wonder what they will do if another member of our family takes him.
ALSO, I noticed that when we pulled into MK the parking kiosk actually scanned my Driver License to confirm identity.

 

[bpadair32]

People should stop using the term fingerprint for this. It is not because they can't legally do that. It is a finger geometry scan, essentially finger shape and is considerably less unique than a fingerprint.

I don't know where you got this information but it is incorrect.

1. They can legally do it.
2. A fingerprint scanner is not a finger geometry scanner, it is a fingerprint scanner, points and patterns are part of what it matches, and that uses geometry for the matching.

Source: I spent years working for a company that makes fingerprint scanners and matching software.

 

[Queen of the WDW Scene]

I don't know where you got this information but it is incorrect.

1. They can legally do it.
2. A fingerprint scanner is not a finger geometry scanner, it is a fingerprint scanner, points and patterns are part of what it matches, and that uses geometry for the matching.

Source: I spent years working for a company that makes fingerprint scanners and matching software.

I think there should be clarification about what is happening when people put their finger on the scanner.
It's called Biometrics and this is how the fingerprint scan works.

How Does a Fingerprint Optical Scanner Work? A fingerprint scanner system has two basic jobs -- it needs to get an image of your finger, and it needs to determine whether the pattern of ridges and valleys in this image matches the pattern of ridges and valleys in pre-scanned images.

Only specific characteristics, which are unique to every fingerprint, are filtered and saved as an encrypted biometric key or mathematical representation. No image of a fingerprint is ever saved, only a series of numbers (a binary code), which is used for verification. The algorithm cannot be reconverted to an image, so no one can duplicate your fingerprints.

 

[rteetz]

I don't know where you got this information but it is incorrect.

1. They can legally do it.
2. A fingerprint scanner is not a finger geometry scanner, it is a fingerprint scanner, points and patterns are part of what it matches, and that uses geometry for the matching.

Source: I spent years working for a company that makes fingerprint scanners and matching software.

Disney does not scan the entire finger print, they only scan for the shape. I'm not getting into the legality of it but from what I've heard that is how they do it.

 

[bpadair32]

Disney does not scan the entire finger print, they only scan for the shape. I'm not getting into the legality of it but from what I've heard that is how they do it.

Very few scanners, outside of law enforcement, scan the entire print. Most of it is not useful for matching anyway. That doesn't make it less of a fingerprint.

 

[bpadair32]

I think there should be clarification about what is happening when people put their finger on the scanner.
It's called Biometrics and this is how the fingerprint scan works.

How Does a Fingerprint Optical Scanner Work? A fingerprint scanner system has two basic jobs -- it needs to get an image of your finger, and it needs to determine whether the pattern of ridges and valleys in this image matches the pattern of ridges and valleys in pre-scanned images.

Only specific characteristics, which are unique to every fingerprint, are filtered and saved as an encrypted biometric key or mathematical representation. No image of a fingerprint is ever saved, only a series of numbers (a binary code), which is used for verification. The algorithm cannot be reconverted to an image, so no one can duplicate your fingerprints.

Correct. That does not mean that it is not a fingerprint scan though.

 

[Josh Hendy]

The fraud isn't using someone else's ticket. The fraud is the cottage industry of people deceptively selling partially used, non-transferable tickets on Craigslist to unsuspecting guests in the first place. That's what Disney (on both coasts) is trying to stop.

Then it's awfully nice of Disney to spend so much time and energy trying to save a tiny minority of their guests from buying deeply discounted tickets under false pretenses ... even at the risk of delaying, disrupting and annoying the vast majority of their customers who haven't been "bilked".

 

[mikedoyleblogger]

Then it's awfully nice of Disney to spend so much time and energy trying to save a tiny minority of their guests from buying deeply discounted tickets under false pretenses ... even at the risk of delaying, disrupting and annoying the vast majority of their customers who haven't been "bilked".

They aren't trying to save people from being "bilked." They're trying to stop the attractiveness of fraudulently selling non-transferable ticket media.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Is this to close the "stroller loophole"?

 

[BigAlsGal]

I could also see it being a problem with AP holders. Technically if you bought 1 childs AP you could give that MB to any child and it would work. I have 2 kids AP. If say my brother wanted to take his kids I could hand him my kids MB and they would work.

I see why they're doing it. It's just gonna be such a PitA!!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I could also see it being a problem with AP holders. Technically if you bought 1 childs AP you could give that MB to any child and it would work. I have 2 kids AP. If say my brother wanted to take his kids I could hand him my kids MB and they would work.

I see why they're doing it. It's just gonna be such a PitA!!

Right...and that is "ticket fraud" clearly spelled out in the fine print when Disney sells the ticket...

"Non-transferable" is that only phrase/term that really matters in the legalese when it comes to justifying any "loss prevention" they chose to employ.

 

[BigAlsGal]

Right...and that is "ticket fraud" clearly spelled out in the fine print when Disney sells the ticket...

"Non-transferable" is that only phrase/term that really matters in the legalese when it comes to justifying any "loss prevention" they chose to employ.

I'm not sure why you quoted me. I said I got it.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I'm not sure why you quoted me. I said I got it.

I was agreeing with the scenario you used as an example...that's all.

 

[BigAlsGal]

I was agreeing with the scenario you used as an example...that's all.

Oh ok. It felt like you were scolding me.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Oh ok. It felt like you were scolding me.

Sorry...not at all

 

[HopperFan]

I'll throw my 2 cents in ....

- This "fraud" may be a bigger problem than you think, and the lack of turnstiles don't help at rope drop and busy times.
- DS and I have both seen quite a few times families trying to slide two kids in with one ticket.
- Families gather tight, scanning and handing off tickets and hoping in the crush not getting caught that kid #2 has a ticket in hand but interestingly did not scan.
- Not that the above can't happen still but they have to keep straight who used the ticket now with a finger.
- Once saw a large family trying it with multiple kids, they got caught because a second kid scanned the ticket a second time. Everyone got pulled to side.
- I also agree that with the price of APs (no child price) I could see some sharing happening.

My DS is disabled and functions as a young child, in many ways at the low end of the child ticket age. They used to waive him through with an override. Once there were magicbands he saw us and everyone else scanning - he wanted to scan too - and do the finger scan since it's right there by the Mickey scanner. It only took a couple times and he has it. I don't help him at all now. Mickey to Mickey and just lay your finger down. AND he is totally double jointed but he still got it.

I think most kids will get it easily and be through the gates faster than most adults.

 

[Josh Hendy]

I see why they're doing it. It's just gonna be such a PitA!!

I can see how it might result in revenue enhancement ...

... if there was a large number of adults entering WDW with valid tickets, but who bring along kids with invalid, "transferred" tickets which were previously sold to some other kid.

... and if this wasn't a disruptive PITA for the vast majority (almost 100%) of guests whose children have valid tickets.